Fate of the Middle Class RPG

[Severian Silk]

Christ, there were even people on InXile forums asking for romances in Torment, I shit you not.

You know, I wouldn't have asked if I didn't think inXile could pull it off!

 

[Infinitron]

Well, PS:T had some romance so that's sort of understandable. You guys weren't around back in 2012 when inXile's forums were crawling with weirdos who wanted romances in Wasteland 2.

 

[Lacrymas]

Infinitron They aren't silly reasons. Not being able to structure your game in a satisfying way is not a silly reason. Writing being fan fiction level is not a silly reason. Them not actually creating a game is not a silly reason. They've failed to make a good RPG in every possible way. I don't know what you want to hear/read. That, yes, Twitcher 3 and Skyrim are the bestest games ever and that's how games should be done moving forward? That our opinions are just drops in an ocean and nobody cares about them, so they'll continue making their cash cows? That we are hypocrites who secretly play these games and hope they make more of them? That we are so completely absorbed in our own little worlds that we can't see how the RPG Revolution is happening all around us? That for every thought-out criticism a thousand fanboys splurge all over the game and that is what matters?

This is what happens when you feed people wallpaper paste for a decade - you shouldn't be surprised that they start to like it.

 

[IncendiaryDevice]

The hold-up to people rushing to play SoD is that it kinda requires you to barge through BG1 again, its not promoted as a standalone game. BG1 OC was not the great classic of the BG series. I've no doubt over time, quite a long time, most people who bleat on about the BGs will have played it, just as soon as they build up the courage to, firstly, purchase the EE version of BG1 (first wall) and then slog through BG1 again (second wall).

 

[mutonizer]

Yeah, that was surprising. You would have thought people would be falling all over themselves on that game. Tranny or no tranny. Then again, the reputation of the EE's and the initial bungles didn't really help.

Since original BGs with mods been working just peachy for me for a while, never bothered to get EE versions of anything. Maybe summer sale or something and I'll grab the whole lot. Always been more of a BG1 than BG2 fan though.

You guys weren't around back in 2012 when inXile's forums were crawling with people who wanted romances in Wasteland 2.

So that's why they put a goat at the start? Gotcha

 

[Roguey]

Even grog-friendly stuff like Blackguards and Hard West aren't getting much enthusiasm. Yeah, the former had an 87 page thread but that's nothing compared to Underrail discussion.

 

[hpstg]

Better dumb than mouth-deep on dev cock like you and some other chucklefucks here.

No idea why companies even run marketing campaigns when they have Crispys like you to shill for them.

But if you enjoy paying for shlock and asking for sloppy seconds from half-assed retards without an ounce of talent, who am I to judge you?

How is it possible for you to sound and write like a fucking Donald Trump voter-cliché, giving bad reputation to people with ideas close to yours, just by the fact of your existence?

What the fuck is wrong man? Where did it all went away? Am I a shill because I asked something SPECIFIC out of you, instead of pampering to whatever tourette's internal monologue you have?

 

[Lhynn]

Romances are always creepy, not because it's romance, but because it's always apparent that it's done to titillate in the most pathetic way possible. It's like having your mother choose your porn for you.

This is nonsense, romances can be rewarding. An epic journey isnt so epic if you dont get the most beautiful girl in the world by the end. Its just a component of a cool, epic story, of growing up. Whats creepy is when it becomes a goal in itself, when it becomes a feature of the game instead of just another story element. When it doesnt tie into the story and influences it, when its there for its own sake. But mostly when its gamey shit. Friendship, partnership, love, rivalry, all this is worth exploring, but simplifying them to a score is kind of perverse.

I think back to the future, star wars, and other great adventures of the 80s and 90s would have been less without the element of romance, and i do believe it can have the same effect on books and games.

 

[Mustawd]

^what Lynn said is the exception, not the rule. But I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[Telengard]

One of the things to realize is, yes, 5 years ago in the midst of the Dark Times (remember those?), there were any number of threads here bemoaning the lack of rpgs, and people saying that they would take ANYTHING, if someone would just make an rpg again.

This is, of course, a lie. And we knew it was a lie soon as it was uttered. If people would take anything, they would have bought Knights of the Chalice, Geneforge, Inquisitor, and all the rest from the Dark Times in droves. But they didn't, and they won't. RPG fans say a lot of things...which they don't mean. Things like, "Somebody should do something creative, instead of the same old boring Tolkien setting." Or, "I'll take anything, someone just make an rpg again."

Yeah, no. The RPG fan is quite happy to let rpgs die if they can't have the A level game experience. And they will bemoan the fact that rpgs are dying even as they usher it back into the grave. C'est la vie.

Adding popular elements to the old style of rpg in order to try to bring in extra money won't help either, because of the common RPG fan shout of, "No compromises!" It's old style games at A level quality only. Anything else is unacceptable. And that's why rpgs went away in the first place.

 

[Gord]

That's probably true, but one shouldn't confuse the shitposting of some (vocal admittedly) minority with the average reception even on the Codex.

 

[mutonizer]

And that's why rpgs went away in the first place.

I'm sorry what?
They went away because money makers realized that there were a lot more stupid morons willing to push awesome buttons than anything else. "Action" RPGs, consoles and easier accessibility to a mass market of retards without a clue or a brain, but with cash to spend killed RPGs. While the "market" is now fucking insanely huge, the "niche" that made up most of the market back in the day is now very small in comparison to the whole, but still there, shaking their heads mostly or just moving on.

 

[Ladonna]

I am still trying to work out who these identically clad, clone like 'RPG fans' are.

Take any game, make a thread here, and somebody will hate it, perhaps more than one person. Likewise, at least one person will love it. There isn't any one, true, 'RPG fan'.

Just take two extremes here at the Codex; you have Exidium II, who won't touch anything that hasn't got wonderful/edgy graphics. At the same time, you have Mondblut, who cannot stomach anything less than a hardcore, detailed turn based combat focuse RPG, and to hell with the story. Which of these is a 'true' RPG fan? Either of them? None of them?

All this points to a Decline of the Codex (tm)

 

[mutonizer]

ust take two extremes here at the Codex; you have Exidium II, who won't touch anything that hasn't got wonderful/edgy graphics. At the same time, you have Mondblut, who cannot stomach anything less than a hardcore, detailed turn based combat focuse RPG, and to hell with the story. Which of these is a 'true' RPG fan? Either of them? None of them?

Sorry but again, bullshit.
One answer has NOTHING to do with the concept of RPG whatsoever
The other is focusing on a specific genre of it.

That's like saying who's a true science fiction books fan, the one who loves white paper and black ink, or the ones who loves hard science fiction.

 

[Gord]

Where he's right is however that depending on the title, there will always be someone complaining and calling it shit just because it doesn't cater to his specific idea of a "true RPG".

 

[mutonizer]

Where he's right is however that depending on the title, there will always be someone complaining and calling it shit just because it doesn't cater to his specific idea of a "true RPG".

I concur

 

[Prime Junta]

Hey guise, but how do we define RPG? /ducks

 

[ZagorTeNej]

Hey guise, but how do we define RPG? /ducks

Any game in which you play a role, like Batman or Duke Nukem.

 

[Manmower]

It really creeps me out.

Why so thin-skinned?

IE games were pure popamole crap

But you still probably enjoyed the everliving fuck out of them as a kid. Point is, they were FUN. WL2 isn't. PoE isn't. The new Torment won't be. Look at the teams who made the old games from the pre-2000s; a bunch of unwashed nerds living and breathing vidya, programming and designing by day, and playing Magic in the office by night. That golden age is gone. Nowadays you have beancounters and bitches in HR lording over peons who are interested only in getting through the week and going home to a nagging wife. Why did Blizzard turn to shit? Bioware? Obsidian as well, in a way (their writing has gone down the drain)? Because the entire industry started making money, and the suits moved in to get their cut. What we need is a studio with balls who will build a team of dedicated and fanatically idealistic devs, not these revolving-door companies that employ fanfic-writing retards and old has-beens.

Fallout fanbois

You say that like it's a bad thing. Fallout 2 is without a doubt one of the better products of the golden age of PC gaming. What should people be passionate about? PoE?

I haven't played Dragonfall but it's gotten some pretty good praise over here. From my understanding it's head and shoulders above the original.

It is. It's improved in almost every way. But it still falls short of what it could've been, and with no further investment. Most designers are creatively bankrupt, which is why they rehash tired old themes and uninspired writing/tropes.

There are a ton of old games that are much better quality.

Name 5.

fucking Donald Trump voter-cliché

You sound triggered. I recommend a thorough enema, followed by a compulsive spending spree segueing into the subsequent purchase of Comrade Bernie Sanders paraphernalia.

 

[Mustawd]

But you still probably enjoyed the everliving fuck out of them as a kid

Nope. Never managed to get much fun out of 'em to be honest.

I still remember thinking as a kid, "what the F is with this pause crap? Why can't they just make it turn based like Fallout, X-Com, or HoMM?"

I slogged through half of BG1, hoping it'd get better but eventually quit. I slogged through BG2 and then quit. Got through char gen with IWD before quitting. Only IE game that captured my attention was PS:T, but my pc died before I could finish it.

I never played another IE game again, and whenever I come across a good game that has RTwP (eg SiTS) I cry a little inside and curse the IE games under my breath. Then I take a shower and play a good 'ol turn-based game to feel clean again. Sometimes I pop in an action game because why not? It's the in between crap that is an abomination.

And that's why we can't have nice things. Thanks Obama.

 

[Manmower]

Never managed to get much fun out of 'em to be honest.

Some people hate on Diablo II, but it doesn't change the fact that the game was a well-made ARPG. RtWP detractors like yourself can dislike the BGs for whatever reason, but again, those games were good. BG2 had competent writing (ignoring the cringe-inducing romances), a well-delivered villain, lots of exploration, satisfactory combat, party builds, spell customization, item hunts, tactical gameplay (not from the viewpoint of a 20+ something meta-gaming grog, but a 15yo kid, who the game was primarily marketed to), over-the-top but interesting characters, and a semi-coherent plot that at least looked like the people behind it put in some effort. None of these things are awe-inspiring in and of themselves, but each of the elements is satisfactory, and, when put together, they made for a game that is still leaps and bound above any of the garbage pumped out by today's semi-independent 'old-school' studios. Which is sad. It's like China getting the schematics and tech for the Rover, pouring hundreds of millions into their own knock-off, and then having it die after 2 weeks in space. Sad. Pitiable, even.

They are middle of the pack games in the lexicon of RPGs. There are a ton of old games that are much better quality.

Name 5. Shouldn't be hard if there are 'a ton'.

 

[Mustawd]

Name 5. Shouldn't be hard if there are 'a ton'.

I'm not your personal RPG advisor. I don't have time to list every good turn-based blobber ever made.

 

[Manmower]

I'm not your personal RPG advisor. I don't have time to list every good turn-based blobber ever made.

Could've named them with the time it took you to write those 2 sentences. But nice cop-out.

 

[hpstg]

I'm not your personal RPG advisor. I don't have time to list every good turn-based blobber ever made.

Could've named them with the time it took you to write those 2 sentences. But nice cop-out.

You do the same all the fucking time. You also can't read. I called you the typical cliché that harms the cause itself.

 

[Manmower]

I have sand stuck in my vagina!

You sure do, comrade, you sure do.