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4X Favorite Space 4X?

Grif

Learned
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
231
GalCiv 3 at launch was just a stripped down verison of GalCiv 2 with hexes and 64bit. It was pretty much nailed by reviews calling out Stardock's shit.

However, I read Crusade has implemented some much needed changes, and thus, nudge GC3 to be the game it should have been at launch. I will report back shortly if it is actually worth playing now.
 

Incantatar

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
453
None of you plebs mentions Aurora? The game's even being ported away from fucking ancient VB atm.
 

Lone Wolf

Arcane
Vatnik
Joined
Apr 17, 2014
Messages
3,703
Not a huge fan, apologies. It's just too caught up in minutiae and the pace is mind numbing.

I'm sure it's rewarding if you put in the time, but I can't bring myself to.

tindrli

I've played Polaris Sector. Solid wargame with pretensions of 4X. Worth trying for the Star Wars mod, alone.
 

Raapys

Arcane
Joined
Jun 7, 2007
Messages
4,960
Aurora is too realistic for my taste; processing a year in-game takes about a year in real time.
 

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,752
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
Yeah when the French sank Microprose that was also the end of Simtex, the devs of the Master of Orion/Magic games. I think they were working at Master of Magic 2 at the time. I remember reading a very early preview for that game. Ah the disappointment when i later realised that it'll never come out. I think, Atari the publisher behind MOO 3 was actually owned by Infogrames, a french dev/publisher disguising its shitty history.

I've never heard anything about MoM 2. In fact, I looked a whole bunch for it a few years ago and I found nothing, so if you have anything about it, I would be really thankful if you posted it, even if it is just an old magazine article.

What I read they were working on was that Metal Lords (previously Mechlords, but it seems they had some trouble with FASA because of that title). I read that the game was in a pretty advanced stage and supposedly some magazines got a demo version to review; but the only thing you can find on the internet are non interactive movies. Here is one:

 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
It has a variable pace. You can automate a whole lot so you don't need to micro much at all.
That's rarely a good argument, since what it generally means is "you don't need to micro much at all if you're willing to be bad at the game".

What I read they were working on was that Metal Lords (previously Mechlords, but it seems they had some trouble with FASA because of that title). I read that the game was in a pretty advanced stage and supposedly some magazines got a demo version to review; but the only thing you can find on the internet are non interactive movies. Here is one:
In other words, VAPORWARE and FAKE NEWS. You see why I never believe that shit now?
 

Alex

Arcane
Joined
Jun 14, 2007
Messages
8,752
Location
São Paulo - Brasil
(..snip)

What I read they were working on was that Metal Lords (previously Mechlords, but it seems they had some trouble with FASA because of that title). I read that the game was in a pretty advanced stage and supposedly some magazines got a demo version to review; but the only thing you can find on the internet are non interactive movies. Here is one:
In other words, VAPORWARE and FAKE NEWS. You see why I never believe that shit now?

Well, since no one has found these disks in all these years, I suppose the chance of we getting it someday are rather slim. Like you said, it could very well be only a rumour, and even if it isn't, I think very few people even know of this game. My impression is that, unfortunately, there are way more people out there looking for yet another beta version of the sonic games than people looking for something like mechlords or The Lost Vale (Ultima 8's unreleased expansion pack).

Still, one thing about Metal Lords I hope might some day surface is its strategy guide. Alan Emrich was writing a strategy guide for the game, in fact it had even an ISBN (and it still has an Amazon page here). I don't know much about book publishing, but I assume that if they had an ISBN and a page count and evertything, the book must have been almost ready (maybe it even was briefly released?). And, as I understand it, Alan Emrich's strategy guide actually delve into the various systems of the games they deal with. If a copy of the guide (even an unfinished copy) exists somewhere, it would not only explain how the game worked, but it could be used as a design document to recreate the lost game.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
Aurora is too realistic for my taste; processing a year in-game takes about a year in real time.
It has a variable pace. You can automate a whole lot so you don't need to micro much at all.
As much as I love Aurora and I'm probably the #1 Aurora fanboy on Codex, that is really misleading. Yes, you can "automate" a bunch of stuff in Aurora but it's not just "tick a box" and let the AI handle it like in normal games. Instead, you calculate how long it takes your freighter to run between system A and system B plus unload cargo, so you know how long of a pause in seconds you inject in its looped order list so that your mining colony never comes up with empty inventory when the freighter tries to load minerals which would cause it to show an error message that stops your game and forces you to recreate that system.

Or if you fiddle with default/conditional orders and naval OOB structure to get your survey carrier task groups functioning without supervision and having spent two hours to get it right, you realise you made a little mistake somewhere and now your geological survey vessels are stranded without fuel in Lalande Bumfuckistan while your jump tender went to get more fuel 3 jumps away because you forgot to flag your survey support ship as a tanker and thus your carrier ignored it as a possible fuel source.

For anyone who is daunted by the micro in Space Empires, Aurora is pure poison. Sweet, delicious, fantastic poison.

To the OP, if you've never heard of Aurora: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/aurora-the-4x-dwarf-fortress.62376/
 
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Destroid

Arcane
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
16,628
Location
Australia
If we ever managed to get one of the Simtex guys on Mattchat we could get some info on what Metal Lords would be like. Difficult people to track down.

The only micro in Aurora that really annoys me is crew/leader micro.
 

Heresiarch

Prophet
Joined
Mar 8, 2008
Messages
1,451
Personally, I find that Distant Worlds: Universe to be the most authentic space 4X experience. The absolutely greatest thing about it is that you can feel that the galaxy is alive, it is enjoyable even just to watch it as an ant farm. There is very little if any artificial gameplay feeling, everything just feels organic. Space stations occur naturally, patrols and pirates do their own things, civilian ships transport their own goods and earn their own money. The game's presentation is serviceable, but still bad, with terrible font and just a very weird style of art direction.

I have recently played both Stellaris and Endless Space 2, and the comparison is quite interesting. Stellaris early game is ok, but mid-late game is quite bland unless you are in constant war or a crisis happens. There is very little to do or even to think about other than research, colonize, build stuff, research, repeat, which is in stark contrast with other Paradox games.

I have played ES2 only for like 10 hours; it has far better fluff and gorgeous shit to look at/listen to and have more events, but the galaxy itself compared to both games above feel both tiny and restricted. Also colonizing planets is also far too easy to do with 90% of the colonizing tech reachable within 50 turns; the side effect of this is that it makes most planetary systems (and in turn the galaxy in general) lack personality because you can literally colonize everything. I prefer Stellaris with how terraforming is a very lenghty and resource consuming process, and habitable planets are not easy to come by. Combined with how different species can live on different environments for better or worse, it makes the universe feel like a real spacefaring experience.

Other older space 4x games:

- Aside from the fact that it's so combat focused that it feels like an explore, expand, exploit, EXTERMINATE game, Sword of the Stars is decent with excellent ship customization system that actually matters, and demands better strategic thinking. It is good if you are in a mood of some space Total War gaming, but there is nothing memorable at all regarding its peaceful gameplay. I have never played the 2nd game.

- Sins of the Solar Empire IMO has the best presentation and the slickest control......probably because it is played like a RTS, like a Homeworld game with more 4X elements implemented into it. It's definitely not a game that I could sit down and play for 30+ hours.

- AI War is weird, but good. It doesn't even have diplomacy, and it's extremely combat focused. But it has great exploration with lots of interesting stuff do discover and use, and has dynamic emergent gameplay. Even a single game can be very long but the game keeps you on your toes due to how it changes it difficulty as you progress. The 2D sprites here are better than DW:U but YMMV.

- MoO2 is classic. I haven't had the luck to play it when there was not a lot of space 4X around; I played it too late in my life, so the magic of it didn't have such a big impact on me.

In my opinion, all these space 4X games more or less suffer from one problem: the presentation (or lack thereof) of a mysterious galaxy. You know that feeling when you play Elite, Star Control 2, Mass Effect 1...and the joy of going into FTL, changing into a new ship/getting new crews/toys, visiting new planets, discovering new biomes/cultures/aliens/ancient ruins for the first time? It's unfortunate that for most space 4X games, despite that you have a whole fucking galaxy with hundreds if not a thousands of stars for you to design around, there is often not a lot of excitement to have. A planet with some strategic resource? Cool, there are many others. Wow this one has an anomaly! Bleh, just some extra research point/money/minerals. Undiscovered alien species! Turns out to be just another extra mini-farm for resources.

Seriously, why can we discover anomalies/ancient ruins/strange species only for ONE single time per planet in almost all space 4X games? It's like, if an alien ship scans Earth and has discovered only the Pyramids, and that becomes the one and only "Unique Resource" of Earth which provides +3 Influence/turn or something.
 

Tanaka

Educated
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
56
For extreme Space 4X nothing can beat Distant Worlds. But when I want my MOO2 fix I am loving Stars in Shadow. It is the new MOO2 I always wanted and even better in my opinion.

New review from Tom Chick:

http://www.quartertothree.com/fp/2017/07/19/stars-shadows-finds-place-sun/#more-43695

Could not agree more. And now after a new balancing patch this game is even so much better! And a new DLC is on the way:

http://steamcommunity.com/games/464880/announcements/detail/1430307963817159301

Want MOO2 with better graphics and bigger maps and more stuff? Well it is finally here for me.

I am trying a new game as the Gremak slavers and having a blast. Capturing slaves and allying with pirate marauders. Striking out of nowhere with my cloaking device and close range torpedoes. There is so much more to this game than even MOO2 had. Each race is really cool and different! Not many games where I don't have a favorite and want to play all of them.

Put on some Star Wars music and I am in Space 4X heaven. This is finally the modern MOO2 I was always waiting for! But better! Yes I said it. Better than MOO2.
 

Incantatar

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
453
Aurora is too realistic for my taste; processing a year in-game takes about a year in real time.
It has a variable pace. You can automate a whole lot so you don't need to micro much at all.
As much as I love Aurora and I'm probably the #1 Aurora fanboy on Codex, that is really misleading. Yes, you can "automate" a bunch of stuff in Aurora but it's not just "tick a box" and let the AI handle it like in normal games. Instead, you calculate how long it takes your freighter to run between system A and system B plus unload cargo, so you know how long of a pause in seconds you inject in its looped order list so that your mining colony never comes up with empty inventory when the freighter tries to load minerals which would cause it to show an error message that stops your game and forces you to recreate that system.

Or if you fiddle with default/conditional orders and naval OOB structure to get your survey carrier task groups functioning without supervision and having spent two hours to get it right, you realise you made a little mistake somewhere and now your geological survey vessels are stranded without fuel in Lalande Bumfuckistan while your jump tender went to get more fuel 3 jumps away because you forgot to flag your survey support ship as a tanker and thus your carrier ignored it as a possible fuel source.

For anyone who is daunted by the micro in Space Empires, Aurora is pure poison. Sweet, delicious, fantastic poison.

To the OP, if you've never heard of Aurora: http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/aurora-the-4x-dwarf-fortress.62376/

You're right. I played it again after some time and there are more micro pitfalls than I remembered. Still, I can't imagine substituting it with any other space 4x. The micro is an acceptable price for its great detail.
 

octavius

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Aug 4, 2007
Messages
19,218
Location
Bjørgvin
After having won my first serious game of SMAC I still think MOO1 is the best Space 4X game I've played.
The problem with SMAC is that every square is used, and made even worse by not being able to just turn off underwater bases (EDIT: turns out you can by editing a txt file). It just becomes too much micromanagement and too time consuming, and one game on a Large map lasts longer than an average CRPG.

People have mentioned it before, and I can only agree that by concentrating all action on fixed points (stars) in MOO1, it becomes a more focused and less time consuming game, and it helps the AI.

And despite SMAC implementing some things from MOO1, like more diverse factions compared to Civ2 and the unit design, it's still too similar to Civ2 in that the games become rather predictable and formulaic. The factions are not diverse enough, and they will all the the same general tech and units.
 
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Incantatar

Cipher
Joined
Jan 9, 2012
Messages
453
Fuck Aurora! I spent so much time designing and managing shit and after just 100 years the game slows to an absolute unbearable crawl. (That is besides the 1 million time stops from some random commercial freighter refit. Who the fuck cares about this shit?) It is so much worse in Aurora than in DF. Who wants to play short games in an autism simulator? I'm mad. Going to try DW:U now.

Can't remember if I prefered MoO1 or 2 but either is my favorite 4x now. You can at least finish a game.
 

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