Decline First person "cover systems" - the most redundant mechanic ever?

[Plisken]

Cover systems in general are much maligned here, for good reasons, but within the context of 3rd person popamole shooters they at least make sense. It might lead to shit gameplay, but it serves the exact purpose it was implemented for (giving retards their "cinematic" experience)

A more nefarious - but thankfully still rare - development in recent years has been the spurious addition of cover "systems" into strictly first person shooters. The most significant title was Red Orchestra 2 (fans of the series will note that the "system" has been ditched in the sequel rising storm 2) but I was reminded about it upon being told the new wolfenstein games have "cover systems" listed a feature

I cannot think of a more redundant and unnecessary mechanic. It is neither in the service of gameplay, nor in service of realism if thats what you're going for. There is already a perfectly functional "cover system" inherent in all FPSes: its using your fat fingers to press WASD keys and maybe the crouch button until you're sufficiently behind cover. Not only is this sufficient but it is also superior to any nonsense "hug to cover" button because it doesn't restrict your mobility or lock you into a certain distance or piece of geometry.

I hope fucktarded devs don't consider this an "evolution", because its certainly not. If the FPS is run and gun, forget about "cover" anything for fucks sake. If the FPS is a tactical shooter or milsim game, stop trying to reinvent the wheel and stick with a tried and true stand/crouch/prone/leanleft/leanright, fucking hacks.

while I'm at it, crosshairs or ironsights/modelled sights, not both. Completely redundant.

 

[Kitchen Utensil]

Yeah, shit obviously.

But there aren't any good first person shooters anymore anyway, so I couldn't care less what retarded new mechanics devs come up with next. Every mechanic needed for a good FPS was conceived some time in the 90s (some of them refined over the years), but for some reason most devs are more creative coming up with ways to make games shit rather than fun.

 

[Ezekiel]

Cover systems in general are much maligned here, for good reasons, but within the context of 3rd person popamole shooters they at least make sense. It might lead to shit gameplay, but it serves the exact purpose it was implemented for (giving retards their "cinematic" experience)

I already partly disagree and haven't even gotten to the first person part yet. Obviously, if you're building your entire level around low cover, that's bad. But there is nothing wrong with a good cover system in a third person shooter. When I play most third person shooters, I don't use the cover systems much. They have drawbacks. You have less freedom of movement and you can't react quickly to unexpected situations. You're a sitting duck when you pop out your head, an easy target for other players or AI. I remain mobile for the most part and simply stand behind objects. This allows me to use cover even when I'm not near the object. It is hugely beneficial, however, when you quickly need to get to safety or don't want to overstep from cover. It also sometimes places your head lower than when crouching. I dislike automatic cover systems, like in Tomb Raider and MGSV. Let me decide if I want to use the cover system. And stop building your levels so much around low cover.

But anyway, I do agree about first person cover being pointless. I'd rather just step to the side or crouch/go prone.

 

[Gregz]

"sticky surface" cover systems are shit.

That's why I stopped playing Mass Effect 2, immediately. It's also why I hate Deus Ex: Human Retardation.

We used to have a shitload of fun playing counter-strike, when cover meant strafing from behind crates or crouching. It worked just fine. Don't fix what isn't broken, and never sacrifice fun gameplay for the sake of "realism".

 

[Kutulu]

Yes, ducking was a thing in fps, and shooting blindly over cover is retarded and makes no sense so it wasnt build in, cuz its shit and retarded.

Only way shooting over cover would make sense is in some Future Warrior/Scifi thingy where the gun has a camera thats linked to a helmet hud, but it would still be awkward as shit since guns arent ment to be shot that way.

 

[SomeDudeandHisHamster]

Solution to boring cover shooters?
Vanquish: The game that punishes your incompetence by making you play a cover shooter.
Play it if you dont know what I mean.

 

[Plisken]

"sticky surface" cover systems are shit.

That's why I stopped playing Mass Effect 2, immediately. It's also why I hate Deus Ex: Human Retardation.

We used to have a shitload of fun playing counter-strike, when cover meant strafing from behind crates or crouching. It worked just fine. Don't fix what isn't broken, and never sacrifice fun gameplay for the sake of "realism".

The thing is even in the service of "realism" it fails: nobody fucking uses cover like sticky cover anywhere except in the movies.

I think the only actual functional "evolution" of cover usage in FPS games happened in 2003, with rainbow six raven shield. It had a smooth control function so you could directly control the amount of exposure when peeking both laterally and vertically in addition to traditional Q/E lean controls. This was smart, realistic and functional, however it ended up being of questionable utility due to how slow it was to use

 

[Ezekiel]

Solution to boring cover shooters?
Vanquish: The game that punishes your incompetence by making you play a cover shooter.
Play it if you dont know what I mean.

I found Vanquish annoying. They apparently don't want you to use cover, but they put a stamina system and health regen in? You have so little stamina. You can punch one time and then you're forced to slowly run. You're so powerless. The second to last boss added to my opinion that the game is cheap. It took countless attempts, as there were so many enemies in the small room and you had such minuscule stamina. Yet the final boss only took one attempt. I wasn't too excited about the rocket slide and didn't like being pushed to constantly use it. The animations were so weightless and the levels were all so samey. It had a few fun moments, but I don't think I'd play it again.

 

[SomeDudeandHisHamster]

Solution to boring cover shooters?
Vanquish: The game that punishes your incompetence by making you play a cover shooter.
Play it if you dont know what I mean.

I found Vanquish annoying. They apparently don't want you to use cover, but they put a stamina system and health regen in? You have so little stamina. You can punch one time and then you're forced to slowly run. You're so powerless. The second to last boss added to my opinion that the game is cheap. It took countless attempts, as there were so many enemies in the small room and you had such minuscule stamina. Yet the final boss only took one attempt. I wasn't too excited about the rocket slide and didn't like being pushed to constantly use it. The animations were so weightless and the levels were all so samey. It had a few fun moments, but I don't think I'd play it again.

It requires stamina management to actually enjoy it which is a first for Platinum games.

 

[The Brazilian Slaughter]

Pretty much all shooters nowdays are multi-plataform, and let's be frank here playing FPS on a console is fucking horrible,

I miss Q/E leaning.

Also how come we don't get the option of laying prone in shooters? I don't remember one that ever let me do that.

 

[Endemic]

Also how come we don't get the option of laying prone in shooters? I don't remember one that ever let me do that.

Any Battlefield before BC2, Operation Flashpoint\ARMA series to name just a few that come to mind.

 

[Naveen]

The thing is even in the service of "realism" it fails: nobody fucking uses cover like sticky cover anywhere except in the movies.

Speaking of realism and leaning, I remember reading somewhere that SWAT and tactical teams walk leaned to one side or the other when clearing a corner and stepping out of it. Not as exaggerated as moving with Q/E pressed, but a bit like that.

And they don't stick/touch a wall or cover either, probably because you make noise that way and it limits your freedom of movement I guess.

 

[Ezekiel]

Also how come we don't get the option of laying prone in shooters? I don't remember one that ever let me do that.

One of the reasons I like third person is because of all the physical abilities that are possible, such as diving, rolling and close quarters options. MGSV's prone is probably the nicest I've come across in any shooter.

 

[Ninja Destroyer]

Yeah, Q/E leaning is all you need.

 

[Arulan]

On somewhat of a tangent, I think the use of cover in VR games is some of the best, and in large part because it's not a system.

 

[Plisken]

The thing is even in the service of "realism" it fails: nobody fucking uses cover like sticky cover anywhere except in the movies.

Speaking of realism and leaning, I remember reading somewhere that SWAT and tactical teams walk leaned to one side or the other when clearing a corner and stepping out of it. Not as exaggerated as moving with Q/E pressed, but a bit like that.

And they don't stick/touch a wall or cover either, probably because you make noise that way and it limits your freedom of movement I guess.

yeah



and not a single gyrating against wall session was seen that day

 

[Great Deceiver]

Yeah, Q/E leaning is all you need.

To be fair, Dishonored 2 is a lot better in its handling of leaning.

 

[Axe Father]

I think the only actual functional "evolution" of cover usage in FPS games happened in 2003, with rainbow six raven shield. It had a smooth control function so you could directly control the amount of exposure when peeking both laterally and vertically in addition to traditional Q/E lean controls. This was smart, realistic and functional, however it ended up being of questionable utility due to how slow it was to use

Yeah, fluid posture was a very interesting concept but as you say was ultimately not very useful. There was no reason to use it over simply modifying your position with A/D to peek more or less out of cover while leaning. It was marginally more useful if you were crouching behind objects so you could do a sort of Time Crisis thing and pop up since it was faster than standing up from crouching, but still not necessary at all. The real innovation that Raven Shield had was fluid door opening with the mouse wheel. You could just open a door a crack and toss in a flashbang or peek in to get a glimpse while minimising exposure. Opening doors in the older Rainbow Six games could be deadly, because AI team members tended to just stand in front of them when opening and they just swing all the way open for every son of bitch inside the next room to admire the cute little squad of operators before they insta-snipe you and your buds and go on their way.

Tac shooters never really copied that mechanic, but I think that's mainly because after Raven Shield and SWAT 4 old-school tactical shooters stopped being made. That would have been a must have feature for me had they stayed in vogue.

 

[Machocruz]

In SWAT 4 your team stacked at doors somewhat correctly, unlike the idiots in RS, so there was less of a need for such a mechanic. That's not to say it wouldn't have been useful or desired.

 

[Plisken]

In SWAT 4 your team stacked at doors somewhat correctly, unlike the idiots in RS, so there was less of a need for such a mechanic. That's not to say it wouldn't have been useful or desired.

SWAT 3 as early as 1999 had friendly AI that would execute a variety of true to life entry techniques either on request or automatically (obviously was often less than perfect in execution). SWAT 4 also had this I think, but otherwise I've never seen any "squad" shooter give consideration to the fact that your AI teammates should do obvious stuff like check the entire fucking room as they enter instead of blinding walking in like a lamb to the slaughter.

Definitely one of my pet peeves about the otherwise brilliant rainbow six trilogy.

 

[sullynathan]

Pretty much all shooters nowdays are multi-plataform, and let's be frank here playing FPS on a console is fucking horrible,

I miss Q/E leaning.

Also how come we don't get the option of laying prone in shooters? I don't remember one that ever let me do that.

what? Even COD lets you go prone. Console games like six siege & MGSV have leaning and prone too