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Game with no challenge removes challenges

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Jesus, what a knee-jerk reaction.

"God forbid they play the game"? And what if there is a part in an otherwise decent game that I don't particularly enjoy playing? Or what if I played that part <seven times for the story> before and want to get it over with? Meanwhile, games have featured cheat codes since... pretty much the beginning? What's the difference?

I would never have seen the conclusion of VtM:B if I had to dredge through hordes of trash mobs towards the end manually. It was a fucking torture in how repetitive it was. Thank Troika the game had Godmode.

Stop playing shitty games, you say? :roll:

I get it, no one likes the difficulty degrading further and further, and it doesn't help that the topic was brought up by a retard who can't shut up about toxic gaming and incloooosivity. But having a way to skip certain content is in no way bad.

What's bad is the attitude of both developers and the gaming press. They're pushing to trivialize games more and more in every way, making player input less and less important with each new "convenience" feature they introduce. Cheatcodes at least involved somehow learning about these codes and then typing them into your game, cheating in Doom and Age of Empires takes more effort than just clicking on an "EASY MODE" button. Also cheating in Doom and Age of Empires is more fun than just a simple content-skipping easymode. You can get all guns and blast level 1's enemies with the BFG! You can create a sportscar with a machinegun at your town center, a unit that is almost invincible and trashes the entire enemy base on its own!

What does an easymode do? Nothing except remove all the potential fun of a well-designed challenging game.

The sewers in VTM:B are terrible filler combat, and they're obviously a result of the devs running out of time. This is shit design. This should be avoided by designers. Instead, designers should design cool encounters that are challenging and fun, not just a boring slog.

An easymode that allows you to skip fights encourages lazy copypasting of encounters like VTM:B's sewers did. Why put in the effort of making your encounters challenging and fun when you know the players can just skip them if they find them frustrating?

This is a terrible development because it further removes the incentive of developers to put any effort into their products.
 
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RPS said:
Since the announcement I’ve seen on Twitter a combination of people declaring, “Hooray! I’m interested in playing Assassin’s Creed for the first time in years!”, alongside others pointing toward those utterly furious that it demeans their hobby, cheapens games, and most heinous of all, lets in the riff-raff.

:lol: :lol: Yeah because previous games were just too challenging.
 

Ranarama

Learned
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604
Stop playing shitty games then

The basic premise of the RPS post, and of mine is that there can be good content locked away behind some really shit sections of gameplay. Consider the last game you played that required grinding.

As if good games were all perfect and all shit games were uniformly shit.

The implicit assumption that a lot of you seem to have made, that it's *only* story is also bullshit. Suppose I want to play some thief, but know I have to get past the zombies (which others have complained about, I always liked the catacombs) - I'd rather skip it in that case.

The RPS guy is inarticulate as all hell at stating it, but yeah, I'd like to be able to skip to the good stuff. Fuck your tutorial, fuck your cutscene, fuck your ignoring the gameplay uptil now with a boss that breaks the rules of the game with bullshit. Skip all that crap.

Story isn't the goal here, getting to the core gameplay is.
 
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Ash

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I get it, no one likes the difficulty degrading further and further, and it doesn't help that the topic was brought up by a retard who can't shut up about toxic gaming and incloooosivity. But having a way to skip certain content is in no way bad.

Yes it is bad. VTM:B doesn't need a skip gameplay mod. It needs a mod that fixes the gameplay and makes it as exceptional as the writing, atmosphere, artstyle etc.

Stop playing shitty games then

The basic premise of the RPS post, and of mine is that there can be good content locked away behind some really shit sections of gameplay. Consider the last game you played that required grinding.

As if good games were all perfect and all shit games were uniformly shit.

Truly good games are typically variably good to "perfect" yes, and even when the gameplay is at its worst,it's still above average. If you disagree you're probably playing Bioware games, Bethesda games, Ubisoft games...and all manner of modern games, as gameplay today is very much mediocre across a wide variety of genres; streamlined, simplified and also lacking challenge...and now being called to be stripped away by skip gameplay buttons. How about you people call for gameplay in games to be good again, rather than for it to be skipped? Your lack of understanding and/or valuing of gameplay is apparent. Go read a book or watch a movie.
 
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Mark Richard

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Mar 14, 2016
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Games aren't films, books, or TV shows. They're games. Players generally take the role of a character and are linked to that character's struggles through an interactive space, growing closer to them by overcoming obstacles together. Being able to change the difficulty to suit a skill level is a reasonable request, but as more and more gameplay is removed and the bond between character and player dissipates, there comes a point when you should probably be asking yourself if you can get what you want out of a game by watching someone else play it on Youtube/Twitch. There's no shame in saving money.
 

Martius

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So even this is good enough right now? So far I thought these types of game offer enough accessibility with a lot of difficulty modes and optional items which can make game more or less challenging.
 
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TheRedSnifit

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This is part of a broader issue where certain people see the "art" of video games - the part that holds the most value - as being in the visuals, story, and music. For these people, the gameplay is something that's "just there," and it being remotely challenging is akin to making you run a marathon on the way to the theater.

Unfortunately, developers are catering more and more to this demographic, which I suspect consists mostly of games journalists who have neither the time nor inclination to master every game out there (and, to be fair, I wouldn't want to have to do so either if a game sucked, which they're obliged to do to some extent).

Like, it's especially ludicrous in this case, because the vast majority of AAA games don't even have boss fights anymore. This guy's upset at the mere existence of games that he doesn't enjoy.
 
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Ash

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It's gameplay/interactivity that is primarily what makes this medium unique from others as form of artistic expression, so these people really need to back off.
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The greatest art in games is good level design. The greatest art in game writing is non-linear writing with multiple paths for the player.

Anything that is purely linear is not strictly game writing as such. You can't make games as art if you disregard the tools of the art form entirely.

It's like becoming a moviemaker and then just writing a good novel and filming the pages being flipped. It's still a good novel but it fails at being a movie.
 

Morkar Left

Guest
The basic premise of the RPS post, and of mine is that there can be good content locked away behind some really shit sections of gameplay. Consider the last game you played that required grinding.

As if good games were all perfect and all shit games were uniformly shit.

The implicit assumption that a lot of you seem to have made, that it's *only* story is also bullshit. Suppose I want to play some thief, but know I have to get past the zombies (which others have complained about, I always liked the catacombs) - I'd rather skip it in that case.

The RPS guy is inarticulate as all hell at stating it, but yeah, I'd like to be able to skip to the good stuff. Fuck your tutorial, fuck your cutscene, fuck your ignoring the gameplay uptil now with a boss that breaks the rules of the game with bullshit. Skip all that crap.

Story isn't the goal here, getting to the core gameplay is.

Except nobody hinders you using cheatcodes and cheats therefore. The problem is when "easy mode" is part of the official gameplay and gameplay gets designed around this without even considering challenging - and with that - interesting gameplay.
 

Dexter

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toxicgamingitbig.png


Didn't those decline-enablers at Bioware did something similar with Ass Defect?

Damn that gameplay getting in the way of my videogame experience...



Let’s dispel with this fiction that John Walker doesn’t know what he’s doing. He knows exactly what he’s doing.

I think anyone who believes that John Walker isn’t doing what he’s doing on purpose doesn’t understand what we’re dealing with here. Okay?
 

TheRedSnifit

Educated
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Jul 6, 2017
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What's hilarious is that he isn't talking about making games for everyone, he's talking about making games for a specific type of player. This player loves linear narratives, hates mazes, hates puzzles, etc. And just like us and "casual," they have their own names for people that don't fall under that category - "elitist," "snob," etc.

There should be games made for every audience, but there's no such thing as a game for everyone.
 

Neanderthal

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Said it afore an i'll say it again, in a few years you'll have games playin emsens in cinematic mode, an folk'll acclaim it as fantastic, innovative, inclusive an evolutionary.
 

Machocruz

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Well, Dark Souls isn't a genre in the first place, so he's wrong on every possible level as is almost always the case with these people.
I didn't even notice that, I guess my brain instinctively skipped over it because its so dumb.

He also exaggerates the sales of these games. Compare sales units of each game sold to the sales of gaming hardware (and you weigh each game individually against hardware to account for repeat customers to the series). The VAST majority of people do not play these games and likely haven't heard of them. Has a single Souls game broken 10 million even? Which is still a small % of people who own the hardware to play them on, and not anywhere near the kind of sales something needs to be considered mainstream popular. There are no Souls toys lining the shelves at WalMart.
 

Ash

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Said it afore an i'll say it again, in a few years you'll have games playin emsens in cinematic mode, an folk'll acclaim it as fantastic, innovative, inclusive an evolutionary.

That already is the norm my friend, pretty much.
 

Machocruz

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This gem in the comments

These days I’m a busy parent. It might be months between gaming sessions, and each one might only be eight minutes long...

I just don’t have the time for some of the kind of scenes that this would be ideal for any more – but don’t see why this means I should be relegated to playing more “casual gamer” type games if it’s not necessarily what I enjoy playing.

It's called sacrifice and it's a part of life for adults who want to move forward and/or do something more in life than be entertained. He/she decided to become a parent so he/she doesn't get to live life the same as if not.
 

karoliner

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Most skilled black nation
toxicgamingitbig.png


Where do this people even come from? This sound just like those cuck memes you often see on 4/8chan. I always thought they were just exaggerated cartoons. But turns out there are real life individuals who talk like that.
 

Jacob

Pronouns: Nick/Her
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Grab the Codex by the pussy
People like him, who clearly hates videogames, hates other people that disagrees with him, and is obviously trolling, shows up from time to time, and yet they call the Codex toxic...
 

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