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Game with no challenge removes challenges

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IncendiaryDevice

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No, you don't need to answer difficult questions and make your point with reasoned argument, we get you're attitude completely... bro.

Oh dear. That was an answer. To the "difficult" question.

No wonder you think challenge is everything, everything challenges you.

Really. Was it. In your own mind?

You're lying about what I think again, that's the third time... cheater...

cheat
tʃiːt/
verb
  1. 1.
    act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage.
 
Joined
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Messages
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Perhaps they want games to respect the players time.

:lol: :lol:
Hey, I've made a conscious decision to waste time playing a video game, that damn game better respect my time!
And of course by that you mean remove the challenge, not long boring cutscenes that infest games nowadays.

P.S. You are a colossal fucking retard.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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super-mario-bros-625x352.jpg


"SOME INANE JUMP" - Ranarama
 

FeelTheRads

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Apr 18, 2008
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13,716
The goal of the game is not to 'git gud' apparently.

I have not played that one, but from that article:

“We also wanted people to be able to, you know, you get into a kingdom and you can just kind of continually keep going through that kingdom without being pulled out, so that was why we kind of wanted to get rid of the lives idea,”

Yeah, maybe the goal of this one, like many other games today, is to be "immersed".
I fail to see the point. It means everyone can do everything. Hurray for being incloooosive.

So what do you do after game over? Do you delete the game? Kill yourself? You reload or give up.

Oh look at that! Save games **are** relevant. Turns out you were the retard all along!

Death *means* reloading. That's it. That's why save games were relevant. Because they mean that failure was never meaningful in the first place. Simply doesn't matter.

Read the rest of my post, retard.
Having to reload is failure or the result of failure.
Some people will not get over some challenges no matter how many times they try.
And if there are no challenges to overcome and everyone can do everything, what is the fucking point?

"SOME INANE JUMP"

Why do I even need to jump over enemies? WTF? Why don't they die as soon as I touch them. I don't want to be locked behind such things as learning to play the game. Respect my time.
 
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RuySan

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Don't see why the big deal about Assassin's Creed history mode. It's just a different gameplay mode and shouldn't be viewed in the same light as skipping content in the same way that a time attack mode or a boss rush mode isn't about skipping content.

As for the rest...yes I agree with codex hivemind. Instead of praising Cuphead's designers conviction to stick to their vision game critic they are chastising them for it.
 

hellbent

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Messages
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If you're arguing for a different respawn point or an infinite number of respawns, then you still want to perform the jump. If you arguing for a button that simply lets you skip the jump, all jumps, then the question is, why play at all?

Absolutely - even if one takes advantage of exploits and glitches, such as the level glitch in SMB to get a ton of additional lives, at least they are still completing the game. More to the point, they are PLAYING the game, and not simply mashing a button to play the "A WINNER IS YOU!" cinematic at the end. If some so-called "gamers" just want to experience the game by watching it in a detached fashion and not actually play it, that's what YouTube and Twitch channels are for.

 

HansDampf

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Dec 15, 2015
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Lets say you have a jump over an abyss in a platformer, you fail and fall to your death. Whether you restart at the level beginning or at the beginning of the whole game or just before jumping over the abyss, you still have to perform the jump. If you're arguing for a different respawn point or an infinite number of respawns, then you still want to perform the jump. If you arguing for a button that simply lets you skip the jump, all jumps, then the question is, why play at all?

Hypothetically, I imagine the RPS guy doesn't want the rest of the gameplay to be locked off behind a jump. Perhaps they want games to respect the players time.

Myself, I probably would object to a game being so linear as to require some inane challenge like a jump to cut off the entirety of the game. Why play at all? Probably would try to avoid a game like that.
Problem solved. Why should this particular game cater to you or to John Walker?
 

FeelTheRads

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Because, according to the current mainstream view, the quality of a game is directly related to how many people are able to play it, regardless of whether those people even like games or not.

In short: :incloosive:
 

RoSoDude

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Messages
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John Walker thinks "Anyone who ever uses the word "gameplay" needs to seriously consider their life choices", and further goes on to suggest that review sites like PCGamer and his own RockPaperShotgun should ban the word.



Real wake-up call for me. I thought I was doing good things with my life, getting educated and playing some old school incline. But daring to think of gameplay as a relevant term to describe... games that I play, I guess I really have been on the wrong path. :( What do I do, guys?
 

Grauken

Gourd vibes only
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Experience more walking simulators and think about the meaning of life during your game interactivity
 

hellbent

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Aug 17, 2008
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Well, they haven't changed the name of the magazine / site to PCWatcher yet. But that seems to be inevitable at this point.
 

Jaedar

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Project: Eternity Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pathfinder: Kingmaker
Mario games (at least the 3d ones) haven't had working lives systems since at least sunshine (I don't remember how 64 did it). If you run out, you just have to redo the entire level instead of retrying from checkpoint.

Imo, an actual failure state is not that important. Dark souls doesn't really have it, PS:T doesn't really have it. It's easy to make the argument that any game with the ability to save everywhere doesn't have it. The difference between respawning at a bonfire and reloading your last save is pretty slim.

Only games that have meaningful fail states are ones where you can slowly dig yourself an inescapable hole (certain strategy games come to mind) and ironman games, as there you can find yourself having to start over from the very beginning.

What actually matters (imho) is that there is a challenge to overcome, the penalty for failure is not very important at all.
 
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IncendiaryDevice

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.
Mario games (at least the 3d ones) haven't had working lives systems since at least sunshine (I don't remember how 64 did it). If you run out, you just have to redo the entire level instead of retrying from checkpoint.

Imo, an actual failure state is not that important. Dark souls doesn't really have it, PS:T doesn't really have it. It's easy to make the argument that any game with the ability to save everywhere doesn't have it. The difference between respawning at a bonfire and reloading your last save is pretty slim.

Only games that have meaningful fail states are ones where you can slowly dig yourself an inescapable hole (certain strategy games come to mind) and ironman games, as there you can find yourself having to start over from the very beginning.

What actually matters (imho) is that there is a challenge to overcome, the penalty for failure is not very important at all.

That point has already been expressed as the definition of a fail state. As in not fail the entire game, but simply fail to overcome an immediate obstacle. Easy mode is not about ending absolute failure states, its about having zero challenges along the entire journey, ie: no immediate fail states.
 

Cowboy Moment

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Feb 8, 2011
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Honestly, I'm fine with this. Just add a "Cheats" section under Options, where anyone can configure their personal godmode. That way, people who want to use it, can, but it's also clear that they're violating authorial intent and are completely responsible for their own experience henceforth - much like skipping sections of books or movies when experiencing them for the first time, in fact.

That said, I suspect Walker and his ilk would not be satisfied with this solution. Whenever someone complains about others looking down on them for their skill at video games, I can't help but see this as a sign of an inferiority complex. What Walker truly craves, I feel, is validation rather than the fast-forward button. The satisfaction from winning without putting in any effort.
 

ultimanecat

Arcane
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Mar 19, 2015
Messages
575
That Walker is sensitive about difficulty in games is absolutely a matter of insecurity. He and game journalists like him need to be seen as authoritative, informed, and the all-around gatekeepers of what makes a quality game, but their continued inability to even play the damn things cuts right to that. Him being mostly incapable of playing anything more difficult than a walking simulator is a criticism that (validly) robs him of a ton of authority on the subject. So what to do? Argue feverishly about how games need to stop focusing on challenge because there is a bursting dam of people who can’t wait to play but are kept away by the notion of a challenge and the gamers who promote it - and an untapped audience for his bullshit who will look to him for guidance and laud him for his “expertise”.

It’s such a self-serving fantasy of an argument I can’t even tell if he really believes it or not.
 

FeelTheRads

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That point has already been expressed as the definition of a fail state. As in not fail the entire game, but simply fail to overcome an immediate obstacle. Easy mode is not about ending absolute failure states, its about having zero challenges along the entire journey, ie: no immediate fail states.

Yeah, this. How can there be any challenge with "skip gameplay" buttons? It not necessary for it to be about death or reloading. It can simply be, say, an "inane" jump to get somewhere higher. You don't die if you don't make it, but you also don't progress. "Skip the jump" buttons completely invalidate the whole point.

That said, I suspect Walker and his ilk would not be satisfied with this solution.

No, they wouldn't be. That would mean they'd have to admit to being cheaters. Why can't they just get the same things as others but with zero effort? Is that really to much to ask??? If there was ever a type of gaming commie, this is it.
 
Joined
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This 'inclusive' bullshit has ruined games. Games aren't for everyone, they shouldn't be for everyone, but special snowflake generation doesn't get that - they want the things that aren't for them to change in order to be for them, exclusively - and to the detriment of everyone else who enjoyed said thing as it was. It's the exact same process as the victim mentality. They want all the payoff, and none of the work. They want to press that awesome button and feel awesome.

Fuck these commie faggots.
 

Machocruz

Arcane
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Jul 7, 2011
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Hyperborea
It must burn journos up to know that people are more likely to listen to the opinions of a supremely competent player like Justin Wong than them.

Ironic how John Walker gloats over his critics spouting "empty noise." Those games are still going to have bosses that are too hard for you, Johnny boy, for all your advocacy of skip boss buttons. So I guess you're stuck with western AAA gaming. Lol have fun with your slightly interactive, low grade cinema.
 

Valky

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Manlet
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Aug 22, 2016
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Trapped in a bioform
It seems like their end goal of these casual shitstains ruining video games is to terraform video games into movies. Like what the fuck, did movies stop getting made or something? Oh wait, it's because video games give them XDNERD cred because they co-opted it for a new activity to pat each other on the backs about.
 

Ash

Arcane
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Oct 16, 2015
Messages
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They're just trolling to bring traffic to their site. Best ignore rather than feed the decline.
 

Ranarama

Learned
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Dec 7, 2016
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I accept your defeat, enjoy your failure state.

Don't tell me, you've clicked the "I win" button...

You gave up, and started whining about cheating. Then you got over excited about your friends jumping example, and that I consider jumping to be an uninteresting mechanic to wall off content. Are you actually the ADHD toddler you come across as?

I've yet to see a single argument from you that a game without failure isn't a game. You want what - an example of a platformer that lets you skip jumps? Super Meat Boy lets you do that. There's a game where you can skip hard levels and go off to enjoy the rest of the game. There's your button you hate so much.

I guess I shouldn't be so surprised you've all been triggered by this.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It cant be just ignored because like it or not, the fuckwit journos have power to set trend.

I dont mind easy difficulty as long the core game is built around proper and fair challenge.

Take dungeon rats for example. It is a hardcore dungeon combat game revolve around brutal combat that forgive little mistake, but fair at the same time.TThe game is built around challenge and the easy modes comes from tweaking numbers a little to give breathing room for newcomers.

My philosophy is easy mode should be like a training wheel that help you learn instead of what these fucktard journalists think it should be self driving mode equipped with pacifier that pump dopamine into them.

The problem arise when game developer started to adhere those fuckwit media cancerous testicle and
build the game around easy gameplay, whuch result in linear hallway, puzzles solvable by orangutans.

After that, they tweak the numbers to add "hard" difficulty which usually result in number bloat, endless wave of enemies and shitty grinding session.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I also dont include walking sim as i think them as semi interactive fiction like visual novel or something. It can be good as its own, but in no way or form a videogame.
 

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