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GameDesign: Repairing items in CRPGs.

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
3 questions for you:

1) Is it fun to repair armor and weapons in games?
2) Did you enjoy that feature in those games that had it (Arcanum, Morrowind, D2)?
3) Did you miss that feature in those games that didn’t have it (Fallout, BG, ToEE)?

My answers are triple No, but I'd like to hear opinions, suggestions, workarounds, and such.
Of course, repairing items means that they are degradable in the first place.
 

Sarkile

Magister
Patron
Joined
Aug 13, 2003
Messages
1,379
The only time I enjoy repairing items is when it's a part of a quest. Kind of like the way you could get that power armor in Fallout by repairing it.
 

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,298
Location
Jersey for now
While I think it's a cool feature, it kind of pisses me off that I have just found this great suit of armor, but oh wait! Because I just ran through a fire, it got completely destroyed and I can no longer wear it until I find a repair specialist or something. So it just takes up space in my inventory as useless til then. So, I don't really like it if it inconviences me I guess.
 

Whipporowill

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
2,961
Location
59°19'03"N 018°02'15"E
On the other hand - repairing broken weaponry found or upgrading what you already have is a lot of fun. I guess having it to keep your stuff in good condition is only interesting in a game that aims to be somewhat realistic...
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I remember playing Arcanum where a couple of hits could reduce a perfectly good sword into a crappy metal stick. I started carrying some crappy spare swords just in case, and that wasn't fun. Same goes for armor.
 

Diogo Ribeiro

Erudite
Joined
Jun 23, 2003
Messages
5,706
Location
Lisboa, Portugal
Vault Dweller said:
3 questions for you:

1) Is it fun to repair armor and weapons in games?
2) Did you enjoy that feature in those games that had it (Arcanum, Morrowind, D2)?
3) Did you miss that feature in those games that didn’t have it (Fallout, BG, ToEE)?

My answers are triple No.

Curiously, so are mine.

Vault Dweller said:
I remember playing Arcanum where a couple of hits could reduce a perfectly good sword into a crappy metal stick. I started carrying some crappy spare swords just in case, and that wasn't fun. Same goes for armor.

True. There seems to always be a way to bypass enerving elements like that. With Arcanum, a Dread Armor (if that was the name of the armor I'm thinking of) allowed players to relax while the armor got wasted.

Armor or weapons that are damaged and lose a percentage of its bonuses does add a concern to the game, and players may be required to come up with new tactics to conserve them, but why bother if they actually do so in various ways (the most proeminent being carrying backup items and the good ol' reload option)?
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
I never minded it in Diablo 2, but only because weapons had so much durability you hardly ever needed to repair them. Weapons that break a lot are not fun.
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Vault Dweller said:
3 questions for you:

1) Is it fun to repair armor and weapons in games?
2) Did you enjoy that feature in those games that had it (Arcanum, Morrowind, D2)?
3) Did you miss that feature in those games that didn’t have it (Fallout, BG, ToEE)?

My answers are triple No, but I'd like to hear opinions, suggestions, workarounds, and such.
Of course, repairing items means that they are degradable in the first place.

1) Hell no. It's a timesink, and a uselessly annoying one at that.
2) No. It was a waste of time treking back to town just because your weapon broke. It was a moneysink in D2 and also quite annoying.
3) Nope.

Suggestions: Instead of 'durability', perhaps it would be better to add special magical enchantments that have a number of 'uses' to weapons. For instance, adding a 'fire enchantment' to your weapon could cause it to be enchanted with fire damage for the duration of 200 strikes. Instead of Morrowind's timed enchantments, it'd be a lot better to add a number of uses to it, so you aren't in a rush to keep the timer from running out. Of course, if your game is turn-based (and I'm assuming that it is), the timer for an enchantment could perhaps last for a duration counted in rounds, a la D&D.

Oh well, it's just an idea.

Either way, I don't like seeing durability on weapons and armor.
 

Elwro

Arcane
Joined
Dec 29, 2002
Messages
11,746
Location
Krakow, Poland
Divinity: Original Sin Wasteland 2
Yes Yes No. I enjoyed taking care of my equipment in DivDiv and Morrowind. I don't consider it a very important element of the game, though.
 

Tiliqua

Liturgist
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
151
Tripple no. I play fantasy games for the fantasy. I don't want to go to the toilet, or repair weapons in a game. I have enough tedious tasks to do in RL.
 

Hawkwing74

Liturgist
Joined
Jan 6, 2004
Messages
119
Tinkering with lightsabers in KOTOR was great fun, so I'm all for upgrading. I hated repairing generally.
 

DamnElfGirl

Liturgist
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
313
Location
Canuckskiville
I'm a triple-no, too. I never remember to check all my armour and weapons to make sure they aren't wearing out. I do enjoy games that involve building and tinkering with equipment, though.
 

Sol Invictus

Erudite
Joined
Oct 19, 2002
Messages
9,614
Location
Pax Romana
Tinkering and upgrading equipment is just plain awesome. It should even be possible to tinker with 'generic' (e.g. non-unique) equipment, by sharpening blades or what ever.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
Tinkering and upgrading are in. You can use Blacksmith skill to make better blades (or whatever) out of different types of ore. Same goes for armor. There are other upgrades that depend on other skills (Lore and Alchemy).
 

Whipporowill

Erudite
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
2,961
Location
59°19'03"N 018°02'15"E
Vault Dweller said:
Tinkering and upgrading are in. You can use Blacksmith skill to make better blades (or whatever) out of different types of ore. Same goes for armor. There are other upgrades that depend on other skills (Lore and Alchemy).

Are IN what? You actually working on that game you talked about - like way back? :shock:
 

Saint_Proverbius

Administrator
Staff Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2002
Messages
11,454
Location
Behind you.
Spazmo said:
I never minded it in Diablo 2, but only because weapons had so much durability you hardly ever needed to repair them. Weapons that break a lot are not fun.

Crystal Swords in Diablo 2 break down really quick.

On the subject, though, I don't like repairing items at all. There was a game of Arcanum I just simply quit because my Sword of Air broke down in The Dredge. I just didn't want to backtrack all that way only to have to find a blacksmith to fix it.
 

Human Shield

Augur
Joined
Sep 7, 2003
Messages
2,027
Location
VA, USA
I feel that adventuring in games should have costs involve instead of being pure profit.

I would like to see advanced items to have an upkeep price and a status bar. For expensive plate armor travel and battling could reduce its protective status (very breaking). Whenever at a town you could click a plus arrow on the status bar and it is maintained. And better town blacksmiths could have it reach different level of proformance. This allows a player to keep nice shiny armor that could even be better then standard issue or save money and keep a damaged one. A lower status one would still be good but allows the player to fix it up to look and work better for importance meetings or battles.

I would design a few different supply bars that can be refilled in town (allow the player to even set an auto refill level), maybe appearing in a town after getting agreed aid from workers. I think it is good to have expenses involved with adventuring and reducing it down to TB startegy game bar graph management is fast and very effective.
 

Spazmo

Erudite
Joined
Nov 9, 2002
Messages
5,752
Location
Monkey Island
That still sounds like a pain in the ass. I don't want to have to worry about whether or not my sword will desintegrate on contact with the orc's (terror filled?) face, I just want to worry about whether or not it gets there. Also, getting "YOU FOUND THE AXE OF ETERNAL MIGHT! it broke when you attacked a rock" really, really sucks..

Saint: Yeah, but crystal swords sucked for that very reason. All the good unique crystal swords generally had either "improved durability" or "indestructible".
 

RGE

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 18, 2004
Messages
773
Location
Karlstad, Sweden
Triple no for me too, but if that kind of realism can be turned into something that enhances the story I think it's all good. I think it could also be used to justify crafting skills, but I don't suppose it'll work that well if characters are supposed to be able to get by without those crafting skills.
 

Stark

Liturgist
Joined
Mar 31, 2004
Messages
770
no. no. no.

I fail to see why they even have those gameplay elements in. it does not add "fun" to the game. Weapon/armor durability is mostly modeled as a status bar that you can miraculously and suddenly "fill up" with a "repair" at blacksmith (complete with a "ding" sound effect). it's just tedious.

(not that i'm advocating for a system that require you to move your mouse repeatedly over sword to "sharpen" it...)

It's there to justify for "repair/maintain weapon" skill in rpgs. in many rpgs (Arx for example) that skill is totally redundant, since you can pay some amount of money (given how easy it is to get lots of money in most rpg) to repair the weapon at the blacksmith and spend your precious skill points on other skills instead.

on similar note. you guys played Eye of Beholder game? I remember my sword being dissolved by acid attack and had to punch my way out. also, some monsters tear away my armour during a fight and i did not even notice that i'm wearing no armor until much later... I have mixed feelings about my weapon and armor getting destroyed in a battle. most of the time it might force me to reload the game to retry the battle, and that is just tedious.
 

Anonymous

Guest
Why were you using weapons and armor against an acid guy and not magic?

I dont mind durability and repair as long as it's logical, the player being a dumbass shouldnt count.
 

theverybigslayer

Liturgist
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
985
Location
Port Hope
I finished Might&Magic III-IV-V without wearing armor, the repairing was so tedious and cumbersome :o
 

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