Games would probably suck if developers didn't care about money

[Wyrmlord]

Think about Duke Nukem Forever.

George Broussard was already a millionaire when he started working on the project and was unconstrained by any commercial interest at that point. He could put in as many years into his labour of love as he wanted.

And yet, the end result sucked way more than the Duke Nukem that Broussard made when he actually needed money.

For a more controversial example, though, there is Morrowind, since I understand not everyone likes it on the Codex. Though there seems to be some agreement that Morrowind is better than what followed.

Morrowind was made in a do or die situation for Bethesda financially. If that game did not succeed financially, Bethesda would shut doors. So money was a constraint. In that hunger for making a game that would really sell well, the end product was something worthwhile.

I understandable it is fashionable to think that big commercial interests ruin gaming and that somehow games would be better if they were some sort of "art for art's sake" thing, but it just doesn't always seem to work out that way.

 

[Tom Selleck]

Quick thought: it's extendable to other media too, hungry Spielberg and Lucas made Jaws, Raiders of the Last Ark and Star Wars. Old, fat trillionaire Spielberg and Lucas made War Horse, Kingdom of the Crystal Skull and The Phantom Menace.

Quicker thought: See Valve since 2007.

 

[Jick Magger]

Wyrmlord: stating the obvious since 2008

 

[Jaesun]

And Bethesda continue to laugh all the way to the bank. I fail to see the problem?

 

[No Great Name]

Not always. Riven was made when the creators were already sitting on a ton of money, but it's a better game than Myst.

But then again, the Renaissance flourished during shitty sanitary and political conditions.

 

[Zarniwoop]

ITT: Wyrmlord discovers capitalism and adds much data to its "Human Behaviour" catalog.

 

[Farage]

We have a popular saying here on my country that goes along theses lines:
"A tight car goes faster"
Means, the harder it is for you to accomplish something, the better is the result.
The same apply for game dev i guess, like when you really need to finish a game so you're not homeless.
Thats whats wrong with kickstarter... you get the money right away, and then relax because you already have what you were going for in the first place.
Same thing with successful people trying to develop hits again... and so on.
Of course there are exceptions, but still.

 

[Akratus]

Quicker thought: See Valve since 2007.

A hundred times this. I really hate hearing gamers all over priasing Valve as some divine company when they declined so fucking much.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Another good example is Final Fantasy 1. Arguably one of the best in the series and it was made on a "if this doesn't sell we close our doors" rhythm.

It's funny, you'd think that companies desperate for money would try to making bland game that appeals to everybody and their mother, instead they start doing it after they are swimming in cash. Maybe they just have the dosh to hire better consultants?

 

[laclongquan]

Duh~

Care bout money ==> care about paying customers ==> care about players ==> good games.

 

[jcd]

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[Akratus]

Wut? CoD devs don't have to care about making money.

 

[Nutmeg]

It would be a good thing if a large fraction of all games ever put on the market were never produced. No one needs Street fighter 9, they need a free Street fighter program which they can extend or fork.

Currently computer programs (themselves) are made into marketable goods by intellectual property laws alone. If this were not the case, there would be a more reasonable number of games.

 

[jcd]

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[Fowyr]

Two genres, interactive fiction and roguelikes, produced a lot of very fine games when they were already dead for any sort of commerce.
At least recently, the only not-freeware roguelike was Valhalla.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Wyrmlord: stating the obvious since 2008

 

[Nutmeg]

jcd,

At the very least, although I think that something like what id software did in the early days is acceptable morally given the current situation.

All programs should be public domain, ideally; copyleft is its own form of tyranny.

 

[laclongquan]

yeah that's why cod aw is the best game in a decade lol

One, I dont know what the fuck cod aw is.
Two, it's prolly better if you say something more concrete than a 4chan anon's idiotic mutters.

 

[Gerrard]

Yeah, all cheap and free games are shit.

And every shitty F2P P2W MMO is the pinnacle of gaming.

Dumbest fucking thread in GG in 2015 so far.

 

[Renegen]

It would be a good thing if a large fraction of all games ever put on the market were never produced. No one needs Street fighter 9, they need a free Street fighter program which they can extend or fork.

Currently computer programs (themselves) are made into marketable goods by intellectual property laws alone. If this were not the case, there would be a more reasonable number of games.

You did hit on a key word, marketing. How many dumb fucks would be playing a Street Fighter program designed in 1995? The community for a game shrinks every game unless someone at the head is really dedicated to see it grow. It's the eternal question for IP laws, they might be shit but at least someone will keep developing the IP. The world of today requires that to get dumb fucks to pay attention to you, you need to spend money on advertising and marketing. Plus we have the internet where a lot of quasi-illegal things happen so we have the best of both worlds; there's a Pokemon program which is better than any matchmaking system designed by Nintendo, the programs are out there.

 

[made]

So you're saying in order to make good games one must...instill the culture, the skepticism and pessimism and fear that you should have in an economy like we are in today in one's workforce? Keeping them focused on the deep depression, so to speak? That makes sense.

 

[CyberP]

Pointing out the obvious, but: it all depends on the individual, or individuals. If it is the developers dream to make his best game ever using his millions to hand, then he will. If he is bored of making games he would hire underlings to create soulless popamole, then he will do just that. If he dreamed of bigger things but sold out his studio to a scumlord publisher, then he is fucked.

 

[DragoFireheart]

Looks like Wyrmlord got a update from Wyrmsoft.

 

[Talby]

Another good example is Final Fantasy 1. Arguably one of the best in the series and it was made on a "if this doesn't sell we close our doors" rhythm.

It's funny, you'd think that companies desperate for money would try to making bland game that appeals to everybody and their mother, instead they start doing it after they are swimming in cash. Maybe they just have the dosh to hire better consultants?

Makes sense. With FF1 they had nothing to lose so risking it wasn't a big deal, after it was a hit they were rolling in cash and became afraid of losing it all.

 

[belowmecoldhands]

It can be a blessing and a curse. A company will p*** on what you want in a game if it means they'l make more money. So while in principle the idea of money motivating a game maker to make better games is valid, it only really serves you as a gamer if you're the targetted audience. If you've never expereinced that then I hope yu enver do.

There's no SOUL in business. Businesses are not like families. They're about the bottom line. A family will tend to hold onto a family member who's slow and lazy because of love, at least for a while, but a business will kick em out onto hte street immediately, if they're not chummy with the owners. This is because busines cares a heck of a lot more about numbers. They don't even blink when a project shifts gears and they lay off almost an entire team and bring in new shoes.

It's the fact they don't have soul which makes them so efficient.

And there's this:
http://www.livescience.com/1128-mere-thought-money-people-selfish.html

Just the mere thought of money can turn a person selfish, so that he helps others less often and prefers to play alone, a new study shows.

In a series of nine experiments, researchers found that money enhanced people's motivation to achieve their own goals and degraded their behavior toward others. The concept of money, they suggest, makes a person feel more self-sufficient and thus more apt to stand alone.

The scientists said the study had nothing to do with making a person feel wealthy. When real or fake money, or even a photo of cash, was placed in sight of participants, they became selfish.

(...)

A take-home message, Vohs explained, is that "cooperation really goes down the drain when money is an issue."

For business managers, this could translate into keeping the idea of money in the background.

"In a lot of businesses, we train our MBA's to work in teams," Vohs said. "If the team has a sales goal, then to the extent that money is really a big topic to that team, you're likely to see that cooperation is going to be reduced."