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Gary Grigsby's War In The East

Burning Bridges

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The problem is normally the AI. I have not seen a game yet where the AI could really play well as the offensive side, except the early versions of Shogun Total War (pre mongol invasion expansion) where it got serious money cheats. But that was fun until it became ridiculous.

But in a game like this the Soviet side should be more interesting to play because of the start low and get steadily stronger outset, and because it gives great oportunities for counterstrategy.
 

commie

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Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Divinity: Original Sin 2
what about later?can you play as soviets in 1943-1945 battles?can i bring the glory of communism to the westen allies?

Yeah, in the base game apart from shorter scenarios, there's grand campaigns that start in each year of the war..so there's the normal 1941-45, 42-45(starts with case blue), 43-45(starts with Kursk), 44-45(Starts with Bagration). Probably the closest to the 'end' in shorter scenarios is Vistula to Berlin, but that's in the Lost Battles expansion, so for real mid-late war drives to the heart of Germany, the base game major campaigns are what you need.


The problem is normally the AI. I have not seen a game yet where the AI could really play well as the offensive side, except the early versions of Shogun Total War (pre mongol invasion expansion) where it got serious money cheats. But that was fun until it became ridiculous.

But in a game like this the Soviet side should be more interesting to play because of the start low and get steadily stronger outset, and because it gives great oportunities for counterstrategy.

Yeah, though since I'm still early on in my WitE, the AI on attack is still pretty useful since I'm not that efficient at supporting my forces. Same thing happened with Graviteam Tactics. Been so used to a particular streamlined type of game that enemy attacks were brutally punishing in my first few campaigns until I sussed out the limitations.

Soviets are more interesting as it progresses more like a 'game' with you getting stronger and overcoming the enemy in a 'finale'. Germans pretty much have to rofl stomp early or get stuck in a more tedious hold the line wile getting pushed back thing(which for me is still fun to try to do better than they did, but which isn't as dynamic).
 
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golgo21

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does it have any strategic layer?like managing tank production?
 

commie

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No, it's abstracted and more or less dependant on when things were available at the time. Factories will automatically retool for new tanks. I think you have some control about which units get new toys first, so you can keep the replaced tanks in second line units longer by applying certain rules as to when they get supplied but it's based more on High command control and not something like in HOI.
 

commie

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I have this game on Wishlist. But 80 bucks.

How does this game compare to HoI3?

Give G2A a go if you want as you can get it for 20 bucks or so. Yeah they are shifty, BUT if you have paypal, you're covered for any shit keys they might try to foist off. Just complain directly to paypal and not through their 'service'. Since they know their rep, they won't fight through pp. I've made about 6 reclamations from pp over the years, got refunded each time, so now G2A is actually where I go for loose Humble Monthly keys that people get rid of(like Avernum 2 CS for 40 cents). I do reinforce to only use them if you have Paypal though. Wargame peddlers are usually legit since they are a niche.

As for how it compares to HOI3, well it's quite radically different overall. You are only fighting the Eastern Front as Axis or Soviets and there is no political or production layer. It's pure combat. It's far more detailed(casualty reports to individual man, some wounded will return later etc.) but it's also less flexible so you can't do much pure fantasy stuff. Even the allied units for the Germans are hard coded to not go below or above certain latitudes(so you can't move Finnish units to fight in Crimea for example), just as they were historically limited to and certain forces will always leave the fight at a certain date(Italians in 1943). It's basically as historically 'correct' as possible.

Also as I've said above, a big thing is logistics. You will have to build railroads and have an eye on supply all the time. It's not abstract like HOI where you can wing it for a while and then just click on a unit to get it out of battle or prioritise replacements. Much of the game you will not just be randomly attacking on a broad front just cause you can and take territory, but you'll have to have an eye for preparing the ground, making sure you have an objective, then working for it, consolidating, then planning for the next 'jump'.

This is a strength as it means that you won't feel that you bought a TB version of the same thing as the games play totally differently. For me HOI series is great for an overall experience of managing a nation in war, with freedom to try all manner of crazy stuff, but WitE is the game that makes me feel like Franz Halder poring over planning maps in some OKW bunker.
 
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Burning Bridges

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Not with this engine.
I linked a random video that shows how it's jerking like shit, as if it was written in visual Basic or something.
If you move the mouse pointer over something it looks like there always passes a 1/2 second before anything happens.
This may not be a big turnoff for you but for me it is.
 

Comte

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Not with this engine.
I linked a random video that shows how it's jerking like shit, as if it was written in visual Basic or something.
If you move the mouse pointer over something it looks like there always passes a 1/2 second before anything happens.
This may not be a big turnoff for you but for me it is.

You can speed up the interface via settings. Also they have a setting for mouse delay when you hover over something. Actually I think the UI for this is alot better then most grog wargames which have shit UI's.
 

Burning Bridges

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I doubt this is the reason. Such delays whenever you interact with something is indicative of a shit engine.
 

Comte

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I doubt this is the reason. Such delays whenever you interact with something is indicative of a shit engine.
Maybe I just didn't notice the lag when I played bro. I do know the engine breaks down in the sequel which runs like shit. Especially during turn processing when it is processing the thousands of air sorties.
 
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I have this game, and I love detailed war games like this. The fact is you have to pay up for a game like this,'cheap' ones don't exist. Its totally worth the price if you are into games like this. If you are not, you won't like it at any price.

All that being said I bought this when it came out and I was not happy with how the war ended up being played. IT honestly felt more like a world war 1 simulation much of the time with huge, long lines of divisions and battalions squaring off. I am aware they have fixed some of the mechanics since then to better replicate world war II battle, but I have not returned to the game yet. Its a huge chore to undertake when and if I decide to do it. Have to have a ton of time and be in the right mind. Maybe I will get back into it sometime..maybe
 

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They also had some experienced, well equipped Panzer divisions for the planned counter attack on D-Day. That means Hitler was very confident that he could decisively defeat the Allies. And the initial battle was not going too well, it was only because the Germans held back Montgomery for too long, while the Americans outflanked them. If Hitlker had not paralyzed the OKW the disaster at Falaise should have never developed. Otherwise the Allies would have faced a million men against them with good equipment during most of the battle of France, not been able to march to the German border with relative ease.

If you factor in that that quality of the German units was not nearly as good as the Allies, the decisive weakness was of course air power. German wunderweapons had already reached the front in the form of the best tanks at this time, which were totaly superior to the Allied tanks. But the panzers were eventually not able to do much in daylight because they were shot to pieces by 1,000s of fighter bombers. Thats why the entire operations of the German Wehrmacht in France took place at night, resulting in many accidents and mental stress, an impossible situation.
I'm sorry Bro but this is complete bollocks.

First, German units in France suffered constant bleeding as they were used to cover losses in the Med and especially in the East. It doesn't really show that well if you only look at the divisions but those divisions lost regiments and equipment and didn't usually get sufficient amount of replenishments. Even if we leave aside the Ostlegion units and static divisions, the picture ain't pretty. Units like 709th ID (static) or 716th ID (static) were divisions in name only and lacked communications and heavy equipment. Then you get units like 352nd ID and 91st LL which were good quality and, in defensive positions, could match Allies 1-to-1, but could only support attacks, not launch them on their own. Germans at this point only had 12 truly mobile and powerful divisions in the entire West. And as the transportation network had been largely wrecked, concentrating those 12 divisions in Normandy was impossible in any realistic timeframe, even allowing for the crazy situation where the Germans would leave every other part of the West front without mobile reserves.

Second, neither German units nor their doctrine was superior to Allies at this point. While it's true that Allies made blunders and suffered pretty heavy casualties when attacking, so did the Germans. In fact, one key reason that allowed the Americans to break out of Normandy was the fact that German mobile formations had bled themselves dry in pointless counter-attacks against Allied lines. Attacks that German doctrine demanded of them. Certainly Hitler didn't help things at all, but even when he wasn't involved, it's not like the German generals suddenly performed flawlessly. Similarly, the infantry divisions had largely been decimatedl, as there were barely any replacements coming from Germany. Sure, some units had top of the line equipment but then others had old French weapons that had been looted in 1940.

Third, while Tigers and Panthers were better than all Allied tanks except for the up-gunned Shermans, they were only present in small numbers. Majority of German AFVs in France were Panzer IIIs, IVs and various types of assault guns (StuG/Marder/etc). So the technical gap wasn't as bad as it seems on paper. Then you have to remember that in Normandy, average engagement distances in combat were so short that the superior range of Tigers and Panthers didn't really come into play. Majority of of battles were fought under 1 km, many of them under 500 meters.

Fourth, the air menace to tanks has been vastly overrated. Fighter-bombers and ground-attack planes were good for wrecking bridges, trains and supply columns, but not so good at shooting up tanks. If they had been, the entire German AFV strength in France would have been destroyed in the first four days. No, what it caused were delays and supply problems. Units had to go around destroyed bridges, take cover when under attack, couldn't replenish food or ammunition or fuel or spare parts, and so on. Units did move during the day as well as during the night - night marches were safer.



commie thanks for the tip. Maybe I'll wait for WitE2 to come out and jump straight into that.
 
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Dayyālu

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You are completely and utterly right on every point (and it's so rarely pointed out that the German division in the West weren't veterans or anything in most cases). And the supposed "technical advantage" of German IFV was mostly on paper, as even their best designs suffered from the degrading industrial situation and by a dire lack of spares and new equipment to mantain operational effectiveness.

Yet, Allied air power did not just strategically degrade German efficiency but also worked as an effective tool of tactical bombing: at the beginning of Operation Cobra you got those 1800 Allied bombers plus CAS support blowing a hole into the German lines , disrupting their (outdated) communication network and sending their forward defences into disarray. Sure, the Allies failed to capitalize on it fast, but killing 30% of an entrenched enemy unopposed is something. Plus even "shooting tanks" is a tad overrated: we focus on them because they are big toys, but it's the artillery and the efficiency of defense lines that made or broke fighting in Normandy, not tanks. And that is easier to bomb from the air.

All comparison between tanks ar even somewhat moot: the gargantuan number difference between Allied and German availability counted mostly on the only thing that matters: doctrine. Allied infantrymen were better supported and could enjoy tanks to fight entrenched enemies with HE and MG support. Tank on tank duel is surely "cinematic", but not even that common. Didn't the US Shermans met in combat Tigers like, five times at all (the British a lot more)?
 

GarfunkeL

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In France, Americans had 4 confirmed encounters with Tigers. Obviously they had had few more in Italy and Tunis. The heavy tank battalion with Tigers was facing the British troops in Normandy.
 
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It's a great game!! And it's on sale!!1 (-75% I think)

I played the tutorial where you counter attack Velikie Luki as Soviets, three turn scenario Road to Minsk and then it was to the main campaign as Germans!

Now it's September and Moscow is far away. But I almost have Leningrad in a big pocket...

:russia::discohitler::russia:
 
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Ei1EvHy.jpg
 
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What's the point of those penetrations? You should be making giant encirclements of Russian troops, not just driving through for a visit
 

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The game is great and quite addictive, unless you are the type of player who insists on seeing little tanks and trucks and can't bear looking at nato symbols.

I bought it at 75% off back on Black Friday, plus one of its expansions. Now it's discounted again during the Christmas sale, and I got it's twin - War in the West which contains some notable improvements to air units' rules.

I've been playing the tutorial, The Road to Minsk, The Road to Leningrad, and I want to check out The Road to Kiev before I give the grand campaign a try. If I get off my lazy ass I'll write an illustrated LP in the Codex Playground covering The Road to Leningrad.

Edit: Joined on the 4th of July , you need to take the northern port town hex near the Finnish no attack line in order to cut supply for Leningrad. Until then they are still being supplied even though you have cut all the railways.
 

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