Get rid of the Codex Steam Curation

[Peter_the_Bard]

I agree with the general sentiment wholeheartedly. I have no problem with games getting put up on the curator page without a general poll here because we typically agree on the same wavelength as to what games we ought to recommend. But with a controversial game like this, putting up only the positive review is tantamount to unethical behavior simply because the 'official' implies that most Codexians agree with whatever is put up their. In this case we clearly don't. I think Infinitron is great as a researcher and news poster, but with this he (and whoever else has access to the curator-ship) has crossed the line. Administrator intervention is necessary to preserve our integrity, such as it were and I am not kidding here.

DarkUnderlord Taluntain

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Ban Infinitron

Hey, that's my line.

The more the merrier.

 

[DakaSha]

Steam anus splashing page

 

[Taluntain]

Posting in a "Ban <insert name here>" thread.

 

[Burning Bridges]

I would also suggest a critical look at the hosted CRPG section.

It's obvious why games like AoD and Underrail belong there. But with others it looks like some people are just planning to use the community for their company interest. For example, as far as I know RPGCodex is not affiliated with Expeditions in any way. So why they host their forum here is beyond me. There are other examples, but Codex' strange fascination with this unknown, completely irrelevant developer from Denmark is highly suspicious. My suspicion is that Grunker has somehow befriended these guys and they now use him as their stirrup holder. And suddenly there is a brigade who comes to the rescue whenever that said game gets ciricized. The whole thing smells more and more like nepotism.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

I always considered the codex curator page more of an advertisement for the Codex than the games on the list.

It's basically saying "if you like rpgs on this list, come talk about them on rpgcodex".

Of course I'm not in charge of anything so take it for what it's worth.

Yes. Like most things Valve does, curation is retarded, imperfect, and greatly abusable. I don't think it's an important enough of an issue to merit that we all vote on every game put on the list, but I also do generally think the list reflects stuff that Codex tends to like. And Codex, as a curator, is maybe the most popular RPG specific list on Steam, so no harm in keeping it, even if it will inevitably reflect the tastes of infinitron in some way.

Which doesn't mean his choices are beyond criticism, so it's fair game for people to bitch about the decisions he makes. Regarding PoE, I say link both the positive and negative reviews along with a statement to the effect of, "This game is divisive at Codex, but the debate over it and its pedigree means that it merits attention and might be worth your time." There's no reason any game on the list needs to be construed as a 100% ringing endorsement. Saying that a game is worth playing doesn't mean that it's perfect.

 

[pippin]

I don't really think of having non-rpgs in the curator as a problem, but if we really want to keep things with an illusion of "neutrality", highlighting both positive and negative elements about games should be somewhat necessary. Also, if it's possible, having more than one review per game. But you can do whatever you want with the curator, it doesn't bother me at all.

 

[Absinthe]

We have done that previously, if you recall. The popamole forum was far more lively than the old school one as well.

No shit. Good RPGs are hard to come by.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I always thought the point of the Codex Curator was to give some additional publicity to relatively unknown but good games which can vaguely be considered RPGs. Kind of how Neo Scavenger finishing high on our GotY list caused a whole bunch of people at NeoGAF to check it out, as they've never even heard of it.

As such, the priority should be putting games like Serpent in the Staglands (assuming it's good, haven't played it yet) up there, and not desperately waiting for a positive review in order to recommend PoE. Why in the world does the Codex need to recommend Invisible Inc anyway? Does Klei desperately need our support?

I do agree, generally speaking, that Infinitron has been shown to be too concerned about positive relations with developers, and should pass the curator torch to someone more universally respected. I nominate Angthoron, who is a true bro.

 

[tuluse]

I always thought the point of the Codex Curator was to give some additional publicity to relatively unknown but good games which can vaguely be considered RPGs. Kind of how Neo Scavenger finishing high on our GotY list caused a whole bunch of people at NeoGAF to check it out, as they've never even heard of it.

As such, the priority should be putting games like Serpent in the Staglands (assuming it's good, haven't played it yet) up there, and not desperately waiting for a positive review in order to recommend PoE. Why in the world does the Codex need to recommend Invisible Inc anyway? Does Klei desperately need our support?

I do agree, generally speaking, that Infinitron has been shown to be too concerned about positive relations with developers, and should pass the curator torch to someone more universally respected. I nominate Angthoron, who is a true bro.

If you believe that is the case, putting some mainstream or semi-mainstream titles that are similar give a friendly "invite" to try the other games.

If you look at the list and you see some games you liked you are more likely to try the others than if you never heard of any of them.

I do agree with your goal however.

 

[Infinitron]

I always thought the point of the Codex Curator was to give some additional publicity to relatively unknown but good games which can vaguely be considered RPGs. Kind of how Neo Scavenger finishing high on our GotY list caused a whole bunch of people at NeoGAF to check it out, as they've never even heard of it.

As such, the priority should be putting games like Serpent in the Staglands (assuming it's good, haven't played it yet) up there, and not desperately waiting for a positive review in order to recommend PoE. Why in the world does the Codex need to recommend Invisible Inc anyway? Does Klei desperately need our support?

I do agree, generally speaking, that Infinitron has been shown to be too concerned about positive relations with developers, and should pass the curator torch to someone more universally respected. I nominate Angthoron, who is a true bro.

Serpent in the Staglands, added before it was even released on beta-tester tuluse's recommendation: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rpg_codex/curation/app/335120/

Notice the lovely comments from supportive Codexers.

With everything I do with the curator, I first seek a degree of consensus. Look at the megathread of almost every game recently added, and you'll find me asking the crowd if it's worthy.

(Funnily enough, I was not the one who actually added Pillars of Eternity to the curator. I'm still not sure who did.)

 

[Metro]

Looks like some of you third worlders have first world problems.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I don't really think of having non-rpgs in the curator as a problem, but if we really want to keep things with an illusion of "neutrality", highlighting both positive and negative elements about games should be somewhat necessary. Also, if it's possible, having more than one review per game. But you can do whatever you want with the curator, it doesn't bother me at all.

It's not, the curator thing is not really a place for reviews. The entries consist of a paragraph explaining why that game is recommended by the group. Games that don't fit just don't get into the list. That explains why Roxor's review isn't there, it would read like "it's shit, play it". Decado liked it, so his review is there. I doubt anyone expects those lists to be 100% consensus anyway, and if they do you tell them there is no codexian hivemind, quite the opposite in fact.

Sure, you could do like BroTeam or /v/ and add a meme one liner or an insult to every game, but that's not useful for someone actually looking for games to play.

For actual reviews, codexers who own a copy can write one and people joining the group should have those pinned on the game's page. Or members of the group could add [RPGCodex] to their names or something like that and hope their reviews make it to the top of the general list.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I always thought the point of the Codex Curator was to give some additional publicity to relatively unknown but good games which can vaguely be considered RPGs. Kind of how Neo Scavenger finishing high on our GotY list caused a whole bunch of people at NeoGAF to check it out, as they've never even heard of it.

As such, the priority should be putting games like Serpent in the Staglands (assuming it's good, haven't played it yet) up there, and not desperately waiting for a positive review in order to recommend PoE. Why in the world does the Codex need to recommend Invisible Inc anyway? Does Klei desperately need our support?

I do agree, generally speaking, that Infinitron has been shown to be too concerned about positive relations with developers, and should pass the curator torch to someone more universally respected. I nominate Angthoron, who is a true bro.

If you believe that is the case, putting some mainstream or semi-mainstream titles that are similar give a friendly "invite" to try the other games.

If you look at the list and you see some games you liked you are more likely to try the others than if you never heard of any of them.

I do agree with your goal however.

You can justify putting almost anything up there with that reasoning, though. I was fine with some "mainstream" games that appeared in the Codex Top70, but you need to think about giving the curator some kind of identity instead of just throwing things up there willy-nilly.

I always thought the point of the Codex Curator was to give some additional publicity to relatively unknown but good games which can vaguely be considered RPGs. Kind of how Neo Scavenger finishing high on our GotY list caused a whole bunch of people at NeoGAF to check it out, as they've never even heard of it.

As such, the priority should be putting games like Serpent in the Staglands (assuming it's good, haven't played it yet) up there, and not desperately waiting for a positive review in order to recommend PoE. Why in the world does the Codex need to recommend Invisible Inc anyway? Does Klei desperately need our support?

I do agree, generally speaking, that Infinitron has been shown to be too concerned about positive relations with developers, and should pass the curator torch to someone more universally respected. I nominate Angthoron, who is a true bro.

Serpent in the Staglands, added before it was even released on beta-tester tuluse's recommendation: http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rpg_codex/curation/app/335120/

Notice the lovely comments from supportive Codexers.

With everything I do with the curator, I first seek a degree of consensus. Look at the megathread of almost every game recently added, and you'll find me asking the crowd if it's worthy.

(Funnily enough, I was not the one who actually added Pillars of Eternity to the curator. I'm still not sure who did.)

CDS shitposting, who could have expected it? I do agree with them on one point, though, I'd feel uncomfortable recommending unreleased games, and would only do so in extremely clear-cut cases like Underrail.

For the record, I always appreciate people willing to put their own free time and effort into making this site better, yourself included. I'm saying this in hope that you won't take what I'm about to say as an attack on your character. To put it simply, you're currently too controversial of a figure to do this (apparently) rather delicate job. A lot of the criticism of what's on the curator list is actually criticism of you, by proxy, and would likely disappear if it were someone else doing it. The Codex Curator has the potential to be a force for (limited) good, and it'd be a shame to lose that because a bunch of people don't like you.

 

[Infinitron]

Insert paraphrase of final line from The Dark Knight here

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Insert paraphrase of final line from The Dark Knight here

Infinitron the hero codex needs but dearly wishes it could ban?

 

[Night Goat]

(Funnily enough, I was not the one who actually added Pillars of Eternity to the curator. I'm still not sure who did.)

Who else has control over the curator page?

 

[tuluse]

Cowboy Moment

I don't think having PoE on the list is hurting it's identity.

I'm pretty sure it's similar to DA:O, a lot of people think it's ok, while a loud group hates it.

 

[mindx2]

Infinitron sure instills butthurt in the masses.

Then Infinitron is doing his job... to you Infinibro!

 

[DarkUnderlord]

I agree with the general sentiment wholeheartedly. I have no problem with games getting put up on the curator page without a general poll here because we typically agree on the same wavelength as to what games we ought to recommend. But with a controversial game like this, putting up only the positive review is tantamount to unethical behavior simply because the 'official' implies that most Codexians agree with whatever is put up their. In this case we clearly don't. I think Infinitron is great as a researcher and news poster, but with this he (and whoever else has access to the curator-ship) has crossed the line. Administrator intervention is necessary to preserve our integrity, such as it were and I am not kidding here.

I would. But I'm caught between the Codex' values of honesty, integrity and identity...

... and the sheer amount of butthurt Infinitron generates by promoting bad games on lol Steam.

 

[Angthoron]

I nominate Angthoron.

I actually am a curator, and occasionally add a game or two, if I see something really worthy of promotion, or if there's a backlog of games to put into the group and I've actually played 'em. Unfortunately, I don't have enough time for side activities lately, so I've not been particularly active on that scene. The curator group actually has at least a half dozen people, it's just that Inf is actually the one with time and desire to spend it on the damn thing with any manner of consistency.

 

[spekkio]

A lot of the criticism of (insert anything related to the 'Dex) is actually criticism of (insert any admin / mod), by proxy, and would likely disappear if it were someone else doing it.

The key to not understanding the Codex.
Primo, people will still be butthurt if something on the 'Dex isn't 101% consistent with their silly opinions.
Secundo, people way too often combine some thing on the 'Dex which they don't like (megathreads, moving threads) with some admin / mod whom they don't like (Inf, Geyson), no matter if he/she actually did what he/she is accused of.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

A lot of the criticism of (insert anything related to the 'Dex) is actually criticism of (insert any admin / mod), by proxy, and would likely disappear if it were someone else doing it.

The key to not understanding the Codex.
Primo, people will still be butthurt if something on the 'Dex isn't 101% consistent with their silly opinions.
Secundo, people way too often combine some thing on the 'Dex which they don't like (megathreads, moving threads) with some admin / mod whom they don't like (Inf, Geyson), no matter if he/she actually did what he/she is accused of.

So, is the butthurt generated by people disliking Infinitron/Jaesun and looking for reasons to complain about them, or are they butthurt about the curation/reviews/thread moving, and pinning the blame on a single visible person for simplicity's sake? Seems a bit like a feedback loop to me, to be honest - it's a bit upsetting that DA:O is on the curator list, but when I consider that it's Infinitron that put it there, it becomes proof that Codex is selling out, and so forth. Whether it was actually him who did is is a secondary concern.

 

[Burning Bridges]

... and the sheer amount of butthurt Infinitron generates by promoting bad games on lol Steam.

So everyone can cash in with shitty RPGCodex product lines now, if it generates butthurt? Have you protected the brand at all?

 

[TeknoBM]

Ban Infinitrons suckups too