Giving PoE another chance

[Nahel]

Well you can't really compare the amount of skills and active abilities in both games. Fighters, Rogues, Paladins and such classes were banal-shit-boring in the old DnD editions. In IE games they couldn't even knock the enemy down, shield bash, charge or grapple him. Druids were weaksauce also. The only 2 classes that were interesting were mages/sorcerors and clerics.

In PoE every class is unique and interesting to play. And for example the Cipher is pure awesome sauce. Every class has plenty to do. It's not really fair to compare PoE with BG... the PoE systems are far more advanced and refined. There's just no contest and ADnD 2.0 rules are terribly outdated. Regarding combat, admittedly the magic system is one of the most comprehensive and interesting in the IE games and the bestiary is good too. The rest sucks however.
If we were comparing PoE with NWN for example (3.0 rules), it would be a closer match with all the character building options, multiclassing and feats (but then some other game aspects were not so great in the base NWN).

Fighters were actually more interesting in BG2 due to the variety of weapons and encounters. The choice of kits and weapons proficiencies was also fun and was a real difference. POE fighters were like a MMO one, where you built it like a tank, not caring about damage. Act one is the only interesting act in POE because your skills are limited and make a huge difference. After that its downhill despite some encounters not being too bad, but you have to do so many trash fights to get them.

 

[Haplo]

There's no lack of variety of weapons in PoE. I'd argue the selection is significantly better with the inclusion of firearms, arbalests and secondary characteristics (accuracy bonus, AP, deflection bonus, multi damage type). Plus weapons actually have reach and different speeds which matter.

 

[Lacrymas]

People seem to forget that both BG and PoE are party-based games, i.e. you need to control all your party members. That means you need less micromanagement-intensive classes to make it bearable, pausing to click through 6 party member's dubiously useful skills every round is simply busywork that bogs down the already not-very-good combat even more. One of the reasons mages in BG were incredibly overpowered was due to the amount of micromanagement they needed. Yeah, I agree that some classes in ADnD could use some more buttons to press, but not to the extent of turning it into a carpal-tunnel syndrome fest and the MMO concept of classes. Druids are fine in BG, mostly due to their fast leveling, it's just their shapeshifting that is shit.

 

[Haplo]

That's why these games would be far superior in a turn-based format...

 

[aweigh]

I do admit that PoE's strengths in its implementation of RTwP combat were completely fucked over and turned into weaknesses with Tyranny.

I am currently playing through Tyranny and my mind boggles how they managed to make systems that were perfectly fine and functional in PoE, but teetering on the very edge of bloat and becoming busy-work instead of game-play, and said...

"They liked the click button, eh...? They said the story as shit, eh...?

WE'LL GIVE 'EM SOMETHING TO CLICK ABOUT!!!"

Tyranny features, and I took tihs from the back of the box:

- 2 less party members than PoE!
- But now with 10 times more clicking!
- Yes, we know that doesn't make sense!
- IT'S A FEATURE!

10/10 from Ultra Game Players magazine! Luke Plunkett was in heaven! Said he'd never clicked so much in his life!

 

[Haplo]

Well, they sure went overboard with the number of active skills in Tyranny. The companion combos I've almost never used past mid-game, as having 2 characters cast a spell each, with the spell being 2x more effective then the combo, was a better use of my time. Maybe they would be worth more if I were playing a melee character.

Also I've like never used the 1 per rest abilities (and almost never rested, since gaining levels revitalizes characters). Apart from early game, where Verse's were kinda cool. I dislike relying on such limited use resources. So that means I got very little mileage from the artifacts as well, as apart from being powerful base items, all their special abilities are 1/rest.

On the upside I love the spell creation system. Spellslinging is enjoyable in this game (though early game the enemies are a bit too bullet pongy on PotD), though I wish the debuffs had longer durations. As things are, at least on PotD dedicated debuff spells are simply not worth it IMO, since the enemies first live several times longer then the debuff duration and later die too fast for it to matter. Side accents which add debuffs/DoTs to damage spells are nice though. Especially Frostfire and Stun.

 

[anvi]

So are you guys saying PoE > Tyranny? Because I never noticed Tyranny was a new game until today and now I am thinking I should never play it.

 

[Haplo]

Well, yes. Although it does have some some bright aspects and some consider it more fun then PoE. My opinion is unpopular, I liked both games.

 

[Nahel]

Both have their flaws, POE has an horrible writing and more trash fights. Tyranny has a better writing, less trash fights and some interesting ideas and compétences, but waste it with an horrible third act and a retarded MMO combat system.

 

[Sizzle]

Tyranny has better reactivity, a new magic system, and, for some, a better story, characters (subjective, of course - in Tyranny I only really liked Lantry, while in PoE I liked several companions) and setting. Its combat is dreadful, though, and is, besides a marked improvement in visual clarity - worse than PoE's in almost every other way.

PoE has better combat, items, and leveling system.

But comparing them right now is a bit unfair - PoE got a lot better only after extensive patching and two expansions packs which changed quite a bit of content for the better. At this moment, Tyranny is glaringly unfinished in some areas (especially the companions), so we'll see how it fares after also getting the patch/DLC treatment.

 

[Mystary!]

After finishing Tranny Im willing to give PoE another try. But does White March expansions change anything in the core game or could I wait to buy them when, and if, I manage to get through the main story?

 

[Haplo]

Well, its intended for level 7-8...

 

[Sizzle]

But does White March expansions change anything in the core game or could I buy them when, and if, I manage to get through the main story?

The core game has been patched to v3.5, which rebalances skills, attributes, items, some encounters, adds new Keep content, etc.

TWM is meant to be played at (if I remember correctly) around level 7-8 (otherwise you will be overleveled for it, and it will be too easy), and you can't access it after beating the core game.

 

[MilesBeyond]

Paging Roguey because in another threead I noticed your sig and wanted to ask about it - is PoE 3.0 a marked improvement? I played PoE on release and thought it was good but not great, and I couldn't understand everyone being such drama queens about it (on the Codex everyone acted like it would have been an improvement if the game just gave you leprosy, everywhere else treated it like it was the second coming of Christ, and I didn't really get either perspective). So I'm looking to get back into it if there's been some substantial improvements.

EDIT: Also did they change it so that all spells can be cast outside of combat? If not, is there a mod for that? Not being able to pre-buff was something I found pretty annoying.

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

I tried crawling trough a few weeks ago but the loading times made it unplayable even on a ssd.

 

[jaydee2k]

I tried crawling trough a few weeks ago but the loading times made it unplayable even on a ssd.

Update your pc...

 

[Sizzle]

Paging Roguey because in another threead I noticed your sig and wanted to ask about it - is PoE 3.0 a marked improvement?

Asking Roguey what pre-v3 PoE was like is a bit silly - as s/he only played it for the first time with v3.4/5

I played PoE on release and thought it was good but not great, and I couldn't understand everyone being such drama queens about it (on the Codex everyone acted like it would have been an improvement if the game just gave you leprosy, everywhere else treated it like it was the second coming of Christ, and I didn't really get either perspective).

The Codex takes everything too seriously, no surprise there.

Many people here liked it quite a bit (especially after TWM), but every PoE thread is usually dominated by posters who hate PoE or Obsidian (or both) to such an extent they will deride everything about the game. Because if they dislike one aspect of the game (and for most - it's combat and story), then everything else about it must also be shit.

So I'm looking to get back into it if there's been some substantial improvements.

Even the people who hate it agree that v3 & TWM have changed things for the better.

EDIT: Also did they change it so that all spells can be cast outside of combat? If not, is there a mod for that? Not being able to pre-buff was something I found pretty annoying.

There were a couple of mods like that, but I don't know if they are compatible with the latest version of the game.

It should be noted that the no pre-buffing (except for food, resting bonuses, and other minor things like that) rule was intentional.

 

[Ziggy]

POE has an horrible writing and more trash fights. Tyranny has a better writing, less trash fights

what the fuck

except for mmo-like boss fights which there are a poor handful, every single encounter in tyranny is a trash fight with no variety and challenge

 

[Mark.L.Joy]

I tried crawling trough a few weeks ago but the loading times made it unplayable even on a ssd.

Update your pc...

No. It starts fine gets increasingly worse same in two different systems, don't care if there's a fix game is dull.

 

[Barnabas]

You're dull, get good.

 

[Severian Silk]

Do you guys like RPGs? Because, PoE is an RPG.

 

[aweigh]

regardless of PoE's qualities, it is immediately clear it belongs in the "real RPG" category and thus put into light why Twitcher is not an RPG. Here we have 2 games with branching content/story states, which seems to be the current fashionable way to dictate the RPG-ness of an RPG these days, of equal "heft" if you will, while 1 being unequivocally played in the manner in which an RPG is played and the other (Witcher) playing nothing like an RPG.

 

[<3sRichardSimmons]

Branching story...? In PoE...?

Aside from the Act 2 faction allegiance I don't think that there is ANY narrative branching beyond simple cosmetic differences in the resolution of sidequests.

 

[jaydee2k]

PoE is gold you fuckheads. I shed tears of joy every single minute i played it.

 

[Barnabas]

Poe is a terrific game, let's be mature. If you don't like, you are a destiny fan boy.