Gothic - I'm having flashbacks to Ultima 9

[the_shadow]

I've been investing a bit of time in Gothic, and have just joined the Sect Camp and entered the Orc Ruins. And I've got to say, this game reminds me of Ultima 9, in the sense that it is *horribly buggy*. I have been required to restart twice due to two separate game-breaking bugs, and have encountered a couple of other glaring (but not game-breaking) glitches.

My other complaints about this game so far:

- Combat is way too difficult. I want to create a mage character, but it seems like fighter classes are the only ones who can lay the smackdown on orc warriors. The difficulty is also preventing a lot of exploration.

- There is a *lot* of running back and forth between the three camps. Boring.

- The magic system outright sucks.

I'm not far into this game, but I honestly don't understand why it gets so much more praise that Ultima 9. Yes, the story in Gothic is far more engaging, but the game is still a mess.

 

[ChristofferC]

Maybe more people have played Gothic than Ultima 9? I have played Gothic but not Ultima 9.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The first one is more of a prototype to the majestic Gothic 2: Night of the Raven

 

[Chuck Norris]

I've been investing a bit of time in Gothic, and have just joined the Sect Camp and entered the Orc Ruins. And I've got to say, this game reminds me of Ultima 9, in the sense that it is *horribly buggy*. I have been required to restart twice due to two separate game-breaking bugs, and have encountered a couple of other glaring (but not game-breaking) glitches.

Your bad luck. I didn't encounter a single bug during my play-through.

Combat is way too difficult. I want to create a mage character, but it seems like fighter classes are the only ones who can lay the smackdown on orc warriors. The difficulty is also preventing a lot of exploration.

After you reach the fourth circle of magic, you will take back what you said here. Mages totally kick ass when they get their hands on 4th circle spells. Also if you see there are some enemies in the map you can't take on, simply don't go there at that point. That's the point of the game. Preventing you to go everywhere around the map WITHOUT using invisible walls.

There is a *lot* of running back and forth between the three camps. Boring

The map isn't very big. And you'll get your hands on teleport stones eventually.

- The magic system outright sucks.

No it doesn't . You only need to get some powerful spells.

I'm not far into this game, but I honestly don't understand why it gets so much more praise that Ultima 9. Yes, the story in Gothic is far more engaging, but the game is still a mess.

You are not patient enough. You must not judge the game when you haven't gone far into it. Gothic is one of those games that becomes better and better by every passing hour.

 

[the_shadow]

Does the game improve? I don't want to persevere with all these bugs and crashes, only to have a lackluster experience.

 

[the_shadow]

Your bad luck. I didn't encounter a single bug during my play-through.

Maybe you were very lucky? I couldn't talk to Lester (and therefore couldn't access Chapter 2) in my first game. My second game kept crashing in the old Orc Ruins.

After you reach the fourth circle of magic, you will take back what you said here. Mages totally kick ass when they get their hands on 4th circle spells. Also if you see there are some enemies in the map you can't take on, simply don't go there at that point. That's the point of the game. Preventing you to go everywhere around the map WITHOUT using invisible walls.

Perhaps mages kick ass once they hit the fourth circle. The problem is getting there in the first place. I invested a lot of skill points to open up the second circle and have a reasonable mana supply. Unfortunately, it's taking ages to find all the spells. And worse... they suck ass. Furthermore, your mana depletes far too quickly. A low level spellcaster is not playable.

The map isn't very big.

I know. But running back and forth between the three camps, without being able to explore much of the wilderness, is getting old.

You are not patient enough. You must not judge the game when you haven't gone far into it. Gothic is one of those games that becomes better and better by every passing hour.

If this is true, I'll push on.

 

[SCO]

what a pussy

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Go back to Skyrim if you think difficult combat "preventing" exploration is a bad thing.

Seriously, the Gothics (although Gothic 2 was the high point of the series) have some of the best exploration in an RPG ever, precisely because you can't go wherever you please at level 1.

 

[MaroonSkein]

A low level spellcaster is not playable.

A minor correction: a pure low level spellcaster is not playable. You're not supposed to use low level spells as your main source of damage. They are something you throw at powerful enemies to soften them up. Things only change after you reach higher circles and get a decent mana pool to draw from. Until you get there, don't forget about the one-handed combat skills you must have developed to get through the first chapter. Get the strength score to 50, and only start sinking all your LP into magic after you do that.

And yeah, Gothic doesn't communicate any of this to the player.

 

[Nim]

Reasons to play Gothic: Athmosphere, exploration and melee combat. You don't play it for the lousy ranged/magic combat or the story and yes, there is a ton of running back and forth especially in G1.

The best chapters in G1 & G2 are the beginning ones, so if you don't like those forget it.

 

[Antagonist]

Gothic 1 still features the best atmosphere f all 3 parts. I really can't confirm the OPs technical problems but it has been about half a decade since I last played the game and in the meantime the underlying platform (operating system, hardware, etc.) changed drastically so it's not impossible that some ugly compatibility problems reared their ugly head.

Mage classes require a little too much meta-gaming for my taste in all Gothic games. Unless you have a clear idea of how the game is structured already and already can plan a build which can survive the early parts of the game without gimping the mage too badly its really hard to get it right when playing for the first time.

Unfortunately the comment about the combat difficulty crosses deep into the realm of derp. It's one of Gothics best features that most enemies can rape you in the early beginning because exploration suddenly becomes a nerve-wracking experience instead of just a Disney World-like sightseeing tour. In fact, one of the biggest complains I have about the Gothic games is that in later parts of the first game you can practically steamroll almost all opposition which detracts from the oppressing feeling of being in a hostile world.

 

[the_shadow]

A minor correction: a pure low level spellcaster is not playable. You're not supposed to use low level spells as your main source of damage. They are something you throw at powerful enemies to soften them up. Things only change after you reach higher circles and get a decent mana pool to draw from. Until you get there, don't forget about the one-handed combat skills you must have developed to get through the first chapter. Get the strength score to 50, and only start sinking all your LP into magic after you do that.

Whoops.

What about archery? Is it a viable alternative to melee?

Unfortunately the comment about the combat difficulty crosses deep into the realm of derp. It's one of Gothics best features that most enemies can rape you in the early beginning because exploration suddenly becomes a nerve-wracking experience instead of just a Disney World-like sightseeing tour. In fact, one of the biggest complains I have about the Gothic games is that in later parts of the first game you can practically steamroll almost all opposition which detracts from the oppressing feeling of being in a hostile world.

I agree with what you are saying. However, I've invested a lot of time in this game, and still am not able to explore a very large portion of the map. It is frustrating to have to continually walk back and forth along the roads to each of the three camps, while not being able to explore the wilderness nearby.

 

[curry]

Gothic doesn't have level scaling. If you go fight Orcs when you're weak and ill-equipped, you will get your ass kicked.

If you can't handle a real cRPG, go play Skyrim or The Witcher 2.

 

[MaroonSkein]

What about archery? Is it a viable alternative to melee?

I don't know because I've only played an archer in Gothic 3. Maybe somebody else here knows.

 

[Miskoala]

I've been investing a bit of time in Gothic, and have just joined the Sect Camp and entered the Orc Ruins. And I've got to say, this game reminds me of Ultima 9, in the sense that it is *horribly buggy*. I have been required to restart twice due to two separate game-breaking bugs, and have encountered a couple of other glaring (but not game-breaking) glitches.

Didn't had any.

My other complaints about this game so far:

- Combat is way too difficult. I want to create a mage character, but it seems like fighter classes are the only ones who can lay the smackdown on orc warriors. The difficulty is also preventing a lot of exploration.

That is what makes the game good, what is the the point of exploring, getting XP, and loot when you can kill everything at lvl1 anyway? Big possibility of having enemies too strong to take on is what makes exploring fun as you have to be more careful not just hack through anything in your path. You have enough LP to learn some melee skills at first, and still learn magic becoming a mage isn't something that anybody can do at lvl1 in Gothic1/2, and Risen. You have to work for this privilege. Melee combat, and difficulty is one of the main reason on why PB games are praised or hated.

There are also ways to kill enemies that are above your level, you have limited amount of spells scrolls for use, you have spells that allows you to transform into powerful beasts.

- There is a *lot* of running back and forth between the three camps. Boring.

Yeah they could had plan some of the quests better to reduce it.

 

[SCO]

I don't know because I've only played an archer in Gothic 3. Maybe somebody else here knows.

It is, if you've the high ground.

Just don't try it with skeletons.

 

[the_shadow]

Yes, I agree with the sentiment that the best way to restrict the player while giving some sense of non-linearity is with a sliding scale of difficulty across the game map. The problem is that you can't explore *any* of the wilderness without getting your ass kicked. I'm fine with not being able to venture into Orc lands or deep into the woods, but hanging around the camps and sticking to the roads, and farming scavengers for XP gets old.

Then again, my character sucks. I tried to build a pure mage from the outset. But hey, how the hell was I supposed to know that a pure mage wasn't viable for the entire game?

I'm going to have to restart, because my latest savegame keeps crashing. This time I'll invest more heavily in strength/melee, and then switch to magic when I can actually hold my own in combat.

 

[Miskoala]

Yes, I agree with the sentiment that the best way to restrict the player while giving some sense of non-linearity is with a sliding scale of difficulty across the game map. The problem is that you can't explore *any* of the wilderness without getting your ass kicked. I'm fine with not being able to venture into Orc lands or deep into the woods, but hanging around the camps and sticking to the roads, and farming scavengers for XP gets old.

I didn't had to farm XP, enemies don't respown, and there isn't that many of them on the map so it is hard to do much farming anyway. Do as many non combat quest as you can at start that gives good amount of XP.

Then again, my character sucks. I tried to build a pure mage from the outset. But hey, how the hell was I supposed to know that a pure mage wasn't viable for the entire game?

By listening to NPCs that tell you that you can't become a mage before being approved as a guild member?

 

[Metro]

Only legit critique is that if you experiment too much with a build your character is going to be gimped to the point where you probably can't complete the game. That said unless you were brought up in the Oblivion generation where you can be a master of everything/godlike character I would think it is common sense that you have to specialize in one area. Pure mages aren't viable to the extent that you have to rely on melee or archery until the story allows you to learn magic.

 

[Serious_Business]

Bullocks, I never encountered a single bug in that game and the challenge is a good thing if you're not a faaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAYEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAA

G1 is good for the first chapter and that's about it. There's no proper exploration in that game so it's fairly dull - sure you can explore almost everywhere from the get go but it's easier to just complete the main quests and unlock better armor / runes. This linear unlocking processus is the way the game allows you to advance or not. You can try getting in without the proper armor /runes but the rewards (and the hassle) aren't worth it. It's really not a very good game honestly, but I like the combat system

 

[Jasede]

I never encountered a single bug. Maybe the English version is to blame. The combat is fine. It rewards exploration and timing.

Gothic 2: Night of the Raven has a less cool first chapter, but is a vastly superior game. It is also far, far more difficult.

 

[SCO]

enemies do respawn every chapter, but not all.

 

[Metro]

enemies do respawn every chapter, but not all.

Technically that's incorrect. What happens is there are new spawns that occur each chapter. The effect is if you didn't kill something in chapter one then in chapter two you'll see it plus any new spawns that trigger when you hit the new chapter.

Re: Bugs. I played the English version and the only bug I ran across was some sound glitch against one of the orc priests that would crash the game. Solved easily by disabling sound in the .ini, getting past that particular cut scene, then proceeding with the sound on.

 

[Stabwound]

G1 and 2 combat gets extremely easy when you figure out how to abuse it. You can kill almost anything you can do positive damage to with the right tactics, which might borderline on "abuse". For example, you can rapid fire attack if you hit the right keys at the right speed which locks the enemy into not being able to attack. I'm not sure if that's abuse of the mechanics or not, but it does work.

 

[Twinkle]

Reverse difficulty curve. You get kickassed a lot in the beginning, you persevere and build OP kickass char who can kick asskickers' asses with ease. The game progresses from rough dildo rape without lube to gently licking your e-balls.