Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Incline Gothic turns 15 years

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
Patron
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
3,480
Location
Schläfertempel
Welp, being midway into a re-play of G1 on the hot heels of having re-played Risen, after not having touched either of them for a few years, here are some observations:
1) G1 is really unpolished and uneven in terms of ingame content distribution, something that was fixed and not an issue in G2 and R1.
Couldn't get into Risen, it felt like a husk of a game - almost like it was done by another developer wanting to imitate Gothic.

The placement of the monsters was very strange, they were very tightly packed together. It reminded me a lot of an MMO in that sense, and appeared like they were pushing the concept of grinding more than ever - to make up for lack of interesting side quests. I know it's nitpicking, but the art direction was also terrible and uninspired. Character design is hideous and has a Fable look to it...bleh. The aesthetic of the inventory icons has also clearly been traced from WoW - awful. The limitations of console hardware haven't helped it either, the island was the size of a golf course with pointless exploration and not helped by the lame pirate theme.

I'm sure Piranha Bytes went into the project with good intentions, but it seemed like they lost motivation early into development. They clearly took "bits" of Gothic 1 and 2 that people liked, peppered them into Chapter 1...and that's it. As soon as you leave Harbor Town, the fun ends. Your character's motivations are also just fairly non-existent, I liked that they alluded to the world being linked to Gothic, but other than the brief moment where it's hinted, nothing else story-wise is grabbing.
 
Last edited:

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
Patron
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
3,480
Location
Schläfertempel
not helped by the lame pirate theme.
Eh? Risen had lesser pirates or a pirate theme than G2NotR.
Disagree. Gothic 2/NotR in general, just had pirates in the game, but the theme was largely low fantasy/medieval - back-seated of course by great quest design, exploration and charming characters. Risen always gave off pirate themed vibes from the get go - you're on a tropical island golf resort, and to top it off, an inferior story, lousy characters and weak quest design after Chapter 1 followed by lots of MMOish grinding. The most memorable quest in the game is helping (Betty?) find her missing pirate Dad Ironbeard, and hunting down his buried treasure on the island...ugh.

It's almost like they had no idea what made NotR/Gothic2 so great, and just assumed it was the fucking inclusion of pirates during NotR. And look, two sequels, with the pirate theme jacked up to 11. Yay...what a great series...
 
Last edited:

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,471
Location
Djibouti
I have literally no idea how one could come to the conclusion that pirates are a big theme in R1sen.
 

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
Patron
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
3,480
Location
Schläfertempel
Can't expect sound judgement here.
Couldn't play beyond Chapter 2, I don't think I'm alone in this. It's garbage. Your standards are low if you really think it can hold a spot next to PB's first two games. Only positive thing it has going is that the combat was better than Gothic 3.
EDIT: By that I mean PB actually finished the combat this time.
 
Last edited:

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
Patron
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
3,480
Location
Schläfertempel
In G1 there are actually stretches of land where there is no single lootable to pick up and not a single enemy to fight. G2 and R1 had this fixed in a sense that there are almost no places you could go to where there would not be at least something waiting for you to discover.
Lol. G2 yes, R1 no no no no. Low standards and shaky judgement confirmed.
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,476
not helped by the lame pirate theme.
Eh? Risen had lesser pirates or a pirate theme than G2NotR.
Disagree. Gothic 2/NotR in general, just had pirates in the game, but the theme was largely low fantasy/medieval - back-seated of course by great quest design, exploration and charming characters. Risen always gave off pirate themed vibes from the get go - you're on a tropical island golf resort, and to top it off, an inferior story, lousy characters and weak quest design after Chapter 1 followed by lots of MMOish grinding. The most memorable quest in the game is helping (Betty?) find her missing pirate Dad Ironbeard, and hunting down his buried treasure on the island...ugh.

It's almost like they had no idea what made NotR/Gothic2 so great, and just assumed it was the fucking inclusion of pirates during NotR. And look, two sequels, with the pirate theme jacked up to 11. Yay...what a great series...
Couldnt be more wrong. Risen 1 is a superb game and I like the pirate undertones and caribbean feel to it. Game is pretty much Gothic ++.
 

Eirikur

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Messages
1,126
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015
Man, the thought of playing Gothic in German makes my skin crawl. Does it make you want to invade your neighbours?

When karma kicks in and you get what you deserve, I will rejoice and proclaim DAS WAR'S MIT DIR, DU MISTVIEH!
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
Risen was great up to the temple, then it fell it apart from bad pacing and got tired of killing hordes of lizards. Never bothered to finish it and probably never will. Was very disappointing.

Not sure if Gothic 1/2 or Risen 1 had better combat, sure Risen 1 had much tighter controls compared to the clunky Gothic 1/2, but i feel that Risen didn't have the same sense of thrill that Gothic 1/2 from defeating an enemy, the fear of the mob critting you for half your life or taking said crit, surviving with around 4 hit points and standing victorious over your enemy. So satisfying.
 

Gnidrologist

CONDUCTOR
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Messages
20,857
Location
is cold
There were no pirates in Risen. Being on tropical island =/= pirate theme. GNotR on the other hand had very forced ''yaaarrrr, i be pirate'' component with one of the central second tier characters being walking stereotype of hollywood pirates and you could even dug treasure in places marked by huge read cross. I don't see a problem with that, but get your facts straight.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
Risen was great up to the temple, then it fell it apart from bad pacing and got tired of killing hordes of lizards. Never bothered to finish it and probably never will. Was very disappointing.

Not sure if Gothic 1/2 or Risen 1 had better combat, sure Risen 1 had much tighter controls compared to the clunky Gothic 1/2, but i feel that Risen didn't have the same sense of thrill that Gothic 1/2 from defeating an enemy, the fear of the mob critting you for half your life or taking said crit, surviving with around 4 hit points and standing victorious over your enemy. So satisfying.

If you thought R1 lizard temples were boring, I've got bad news for you - G1 sleeper's temple is MUCH worse in this regard.
At least the lizard temples had the virtue of being short and to the point. G1 sleeper's temple just drags on and on, with ridiculous amount of pointless backtracking.

Regarding combat in G1 vs R1 - since I'm currently replaying G1 right after finishing my replay of R1, I will now finally grudgingly admit that R1's combat IS noticeably batter than G1's combat. It's way less clunky and more fluid, plus with a couple of new tricks. It does miss the wonderful sense of progression of G1+2 that is connected to mastery of skills (in R1 you are already half-decent with weapons from the get-go) and it also lacks the old "time your swings or fuck up your combo and get rekt" mechanic, but it's still better overall.
And it actually retains that wonderful feeling of overpowering a stronger opponent.

There were no pirates in Risen. Being on tropical island =/= pirate theme. GNotR on the other hand had very forced ''yaaarrrr, i be pirate'' component with one of the central second tier characters being walking stereotype of hollywood pirates and you could even dug treasure in places marked by huge read cross. I don't see a problem with that, but get your facts straight.

There were pirates in Risen. Specifically:
Patty, who wants to find her daddy, the infamous pirate. She's a very temporary companion in a mandatory story quest that involves a bit of treasure-digging. Why? Well, just because you need to find the 5x focus stones err, I meant crystal disks, and one of the chests in question contains it.
Some other pirtate ship captain whom you may or may not encounter befire said story quest.
This pirate captain's crew of five, two of whom you will encounter in the harbour town and will probably not realise to be pirates until you meet them much leater, and they tell you themselves.

None of these people look or behave particularly piratey, and they don't bore you with piratey info-dumps either. In fact, you could replace "pirate" with "bandit" in their dialogues and you wouldn't notice a bit of difference.
All their involvement in the game is basically you seeing them at some areas where they comment on your progress with the abovementioned story quest. And then at the end of it you'll probably murder the lot of them, because, you know, treasure.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
Also, here's more fresh G1 impressions, now from chapters 4+5:
1) G1 is already longer than R1 by this stage, but it's NOT because it has more content - it's because of TONS AND TONS of pointless backtracking!
Like, wow. First of all, there's the fact that you get the teleporter runes quite late into the game, and they mostly teleport you pretty far from the Ch4-5 main quest areas, so you have to do a lot of walking anyway.
And then there are quests spread between different areas, so you can't actually teleport from them - you MUST backtrack manually to the exit from the area and THEN teleport.
AND there are actually quests that FORCE you to walk back and forth between far-off areas just for the hell of it!
2) I was unpleasantly surprised to discover that there are NO monster respawns from Ch3 onward! So, ok, I refeffred to Ch2 respawns as mere speed bumps on your way to objectives, but now I'm forced to simply walk along desolate landscapes instead. Ugh.
The only saving grace of that is that you mostly (mostly...) spend Ch3-4-5 in areas that you couldn't visit in Ch1-2 anyway (tough mobs, guards, etc).
3) If you're a half-decent Gothic player, by mid-chapter 4 you become next to invincible, being able to take on numerous enemies at once and come out only slightly bruised. The game becomes quite boring.
There are three major resons for that, both are signs that G1 was not well-balanced in the end:
*during chapter 4 you get access to some very strong gear that shouldn't have been available to you until chapter 5. Both weapons and defensive jewelry.
*the damage system is not balanced. If your damage resistance is higher than attacker's damage, you will only take 1 damage per hit, and melee crits are very rare. G2 and R1 had this tweaked right, in a sense that you could still get chunked even if you had the best defensive gear available. And group attacks were quite dangerous.
*ranged weapons are OP, especially crossbows. High attack speed, ridiculously high crit chance, and generally low mob resistance to piercing damage. This actually has a funny flip side - the most dangerous mobs in the game are not orcs, but human opponents armed with bows/crossbows!
As a result, the game eventually turns into a safari. You simply equip all the defensive jewelry, then pick the strongest ranged weapon available and fire away at anyone and are pretty much guaranteed a quick victory. For example, I only consider orcs "dangerous" if there are 6 or more of them, because they can stun-lock you then. 5 or less die easily with zero preparation. Similarly, stuff like 10x snappers/orc dogs ceases to represent ANY danger whatsoever.
At least, in R1 the lizards and some other tough mobs could still give you a hard time occasionally later on.
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
G1 sleeper's temple just drags on and on, with ridiculous amount of pointless backtracking.

I agree, the Sleeper temple is shit, in fact i think it's the worst part of G1. When i first played through it i ran into a bug where you have to open/move some block on a wall and then hit a switch with your crossbow to open a big door and for some reason the switch wouldn't open the door. My memory is a little fuzzy but i think the room had spikes on the ground, anyways it wasn't working and it took like 30 reloads before the script kicked in and the door finally opened, fuck that was annoying.

Piranha bytes didn't know what they were doing with the end game of Gothic 1/2, but endgame has always been a problem with RPG's in general.

Regarding combat in G1 vs R1 - since I'm currently replaying G1 right after finishing my replay of R1, I will now finally grudgingly admit that R1's combat IS noticeably batter than G1's combat. It's way less clunky and more fluid, plus with a couple of new tricks. It does miss the wonderful sense of progression of G1+2 that is connected to mastery of skills (in R1 you are already half-decent with weapons from the get-go) and it also lacks the old "time your swings or fuck up your combo and get rekt" mechanic, but it's still better overall.
And it actually retains that wonderful feeling of overpowering a stronger opponent.

The "time your swings or fuck up your combo and get rekt" mechanic is great, it's one of the reasons why i loved Gothic 2 so much, it forces you to play good or suffer the consequences. It's been a good 2-3 years since i played Risen 1 (or G1/2 for that matter) but yea i think the combat is better than Gothic 1 but idk about 2. I'l replay Risen 1 again some day but if i do it will be as pure mage.
 

adddeed

Arcane
Possibly Retarded
Joined
May 27, 2012
Messages
1,476
Risen 1 melee is superb. Noticeably better than Gothic 1 and 2.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,349
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
When i first played through it i ran into a bug where you have to open/move some block on a wall and then hit a switch with your crossbow to open a big door and for some reason the switch wouldn't open the door.
If memory served, this thing works best with a bow, not a crossbow. Most of the shooting buttons was possibly worked with bows in mind.
 

Orobis

Arcane
Sychophantic Noob
Joined
Aug 8, 2015
Messages
1,066
When i first played through it i ran into a bug where you have to open/move some block on a wall and then hit a switch with your crossbow to open a big door and for some reason the switch wouldn't open the door.
If memory served, this thing works best with a bow, not a crossbow. Most of the shooting buttons was possibly worked with bows in mind.

Yea you might be right, but i do remember hitting the switch and it clicked in and made the clicking noise too. If i ever replay Gothic 1 i'l try to remember to use a bow on that part.
 

Junmarko

† Cristo è Re †
Patron
Joined
Jun 20, 2011
Messages
3,480
Location
Schläfertempel
Time to summon...the sleeeeeper!

rPWvujr.png


Don't you hear him?! Don't you hear his voice?!
 

Anthedon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
4,513
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
Jharkendar gets some tougher enemies too in later chapters. Never noticed this in the olden days as I usually completely finished NotR during chapter two. But I just went back now during chapter five to finish up some quests and there are Dragon Snappers and friends everywhere. Not that XP matter at this point.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Buying this stupid Gothic package doesn't give me an extra copy of Gothic 2 to distribute to bros. :argh:
 

Old One

Arcane
Joined
Jul 13, 2015
Messages
3,702
Location
The Great Underground Empire
Jharkendar gets some tougher enemies too in later chapters. Never noticed this in the olden days as I usually completely finished NotR during chapter two. But I just went back now during chapter five to finish up some quests and there are Dragon Snappers and friends everywhere. Not that XP matter at this point.
I think that happens whether or not you complete it in Chapter 2. I completed it in Chapter 2, then I went back later (I forget why, but I had some reason). The dragon snappers in the desert valley had all respawned, along with a lot of other stuff (like three trolls down by the orc camp).
 

zwanzig_zwoelf

Graverobber Foundation
Developer
Joined
Nov 21, 2015
Messages
3,103
Location
デゼニランド
I finished Gothic 1 for the first time a few days ago. Man, I regret hating the game when I first tried it years ago (with slow attempts to get into over the years).

It was a blast. Of course, collecting dem skins and shits turned kinda tedious in the late game and tbh the combat kinda grows on you once you kick multiple enemies in the balls after a few hits, but overall I had a good time. Also, the ability to summon a small army of demons/golems/whatever to speed things up is satisfying as fuck.

Since I wanted to finish the game as quickly as possible (I always rush through the last chapters/levels in games because the endgame content is usually shit in RPGs and games in general), so I massacred the entire Orc Town with a few demons and summoned about ~7 golems to keep Cor Kalom busy.

Now I'm playing Gothic 2 and it feels good to get rekt again. The only downside is that the performance took a major hit in open areas, but I can live with it.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom