Grunker's Divinity: Original Sin Co-op Mechanics Discussion Thread

[Grunker]

a made dis thread @ larian: http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=510973&#Post510973

I really hope this gets fixed soon

 

[Excidium]

Magical walkie talkies

 

[Grunker]

Magical walkie talkies

Better than two players each playing through half the content of one single player game. I dunno, I don't care how they solve it, but if they want to call the game co-op, then solve it they must. It's a damned shame the way things are now. It's so close to something awesome.

Hell, just letting players standing right next to each other actually participate in the same conversations would be lovely.

 

[bonescraper]

SW: The Old Republic (yes, the MMO) done it a long time ago, and done it better. Just saying.

 

[Excidium]

SW: The Old Republic (yes, the MMO) done it a long time ago, and done it better. Just saying.

It's not some sort of rocket science, you just got one of those star wars hologram things

Frankly if you are the type that wants to see everything you're better off playing in SP

 

[Grunker]

It's not some sort of rocket science, you just got one of those star wars hologram things

Frankly if you are the type that wants to see everything you're better off playing in SP

I don't want to "see everything"; I just want to see the actual gosh-darn multiplayer dialogues. That's why we're multiplaying. And I'd like to do it without 1 player having to sit on his ass 70% of the town-time while the other player goes hunting for dual-dialogue.

The entire reason for hologram/walkie-talkie is so you can explore at your own pace not seeing everything the other player sees, but still have co-op dialogue.

And bonescraper's right. We detested SW:ToR in my playgroup, but the multiplayer dialogue was handled perfectly. Why they haven't just copied the simplicity of that system is beyond me. With End-of-Time player housing, are magical walkie-talkies really that far out?

 

[Excidium]

I don't want to "see everything"; I just want to see the actual gosh-darn multiplayer dialogues. That's why we're multiplaying. And I'd like to do it without 1 player having to sit on his ass 70% of the town-time while the other player goes hunting for dual-dialogue.

You'll see them anyway...just turn the quests in together. Most of the co-op dialogue that happens "spontaneously" out in the field is just flavor that does absolutely nothing like commenting on each other's prowess.

All power to you if you have the patience to wait, I wanted to wait until they patched NPC AIs in but my patience lasted 1 hour reading this thread and seeing people having fun

 

[Grunker]

You'll see them anyway...just turn the quests in together

There seems to be plenty of "events" that fire and conclude themselves once initiated, and if the other player isn't there while it goes on, it's a lost coop dialogue. I know of at least three instances where this happened to us pretty much out of the blue, and where the only solution would have been following each other around closely in Cyseal.

Edit to your edit: even if they were just flavour, missing them sucks, however they're not: they change traits and include decisions.

 

[Excidium]

There seems to be plenty of "events" that fire and conclude themselves once initiated, and if the other player isn't there while it goes on, it's a lost coop dialogue. I know of at least three instances where this happened to us pretty much out of the blue, and where the only solution would have been following each other around closely in Cyseal.

see edit

 

[Grunker]

see edit

See my edit in response

Edit: also, don't get me wrong, game os hella fun... But I'm a patient man :m

 

[Renegen]

a made dis thread @ larian: http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=510973&#Post510973

I really hope this gets fixed soon

It is pretty annoying. However you have to realize that it was made so that 1 guy can sneak around and do things while the other talks. You can adapt to the way dialog works by having verbal communication, or by having 2 players do things separately. Instead of the game being a linear "you must stand here and listen to this guy drone on", you have the 2 players do whatever they like most. Will one player miss a bit of the content the other gets? Yes but that is similar to pen & paper RPGs, if one guy wants to get drunk at the tavern while the other preys at the temple, so be it. The Co op multiplayer isn't there to 100% uncover every stone with 2 people tied to the hip. I think a few key story conversations need to have both players take part in them, but 90% of conversations there's no need.

 

[Grunker]

It is pretty annoying. However you have to realize that it was made so that 1 guy can sneak around and do things while the other talks. You can adapt to the way dialog works by having verbal communication, or by having 2 players do things separately. Instead of the game being a linear "you must stand here and listen to this guy drone on", you have the 2 players do whatever they like most. Will one player miss a bit of the content the other gets? Yes but that is similar to pen & paper RPGs, if one guy wants to get drunk at the tavern while the other preys at the temple, so be it. The Co op multiplayer isn't there to 100% uncover every stone with 2 people tied to the hip. I think a few key story conversations need to have both players take part in them, but 90% of conversations there's no need.

I believe I already explained why the "ofc you'll miss content" is a fallacy, however your other point has problems as well. It's easy to still allow for the other part to snesk; just make auto-join dialogue an option or a toggle.

 

[Renegen]

Just don't play it like a cRPG and play it more like a P&P RPG. So what if 1 guy misses a conversation? Like seriously, there's 2 people playing the game, not 1. An option on a per conversation basis would be ok.

 

[Excidium]

Edit to your edit: even if they were just flavour, missing them sucks, however they're not: they change traits and include decisions.

Like I said, only about half the co-op dialogues I've triggered do that, and they are generally related to quests or doing something important like getting the second pyramid which you'll hopefully be doing together

The others are like something triggered by stealing for the first time which does fuck all

 

[Grunker]

Lol, "just play it more like p&p". In a p&p game we 'd probably join in most conversations together - essentially most dialogue would be co-op dialogue. Why is there co-op dialogue at all if we're supposed to - like you claim Renegen - just accept that we're going to miss half of it if we don't want to follow closely in each other's foot steps constantly?

Hell, I wish I could play it more like a P&P game, but since we're not there yet technologically, I'd be more than satisfied with D:OS just working on basic level in terms ofmco-op dialogue.

 

[Renegen]

You could say it's context sensitive co op dialog. If you find a mother's lost cat and I had nothing to do with it or didn't even know you did it, why should I query you on your actions?

 

[Excidium]

You'll hate yourself if you wait until they patch that in and realize that you were missing out on close to nothing

 

[Grunker]

You could say it's context sensitive co op dialog. If you find a mother's lost cat and I had nothing to do with it or didn't even know you did it, why should I query you on your actions?

Jesus fucking christ. In a p&p game, there is no reason not to stay together for much of the time, because most dialogue in a p&p game is not programmed for ONLY one character. All characters can chime in all the time. Characters don't just sit passively if they choose to follow another around. However, staying together in D:OS means 1 player staying silently behind, essentially just move-clicking passively. Now OF COURSE I'm not holding this against Larian. They couldn't very well make all dialogue dual dialogue. However this means players are forced to be apart if they both want to do shit and not passively following the other around.

Since this is the case, obviously they shouldn't be content-penalized for doing so. Some sort of solution that enables dual-dialogue long-distance is needed. Otherwise it's not co-op nor p&p; it's 2 players each playing one-half of a single-player game.

When's the last time you played a p&p game where all characters did something completely unrelated to one-another while the GM took turns just doing single sessions? Sounds like a boring session to me.

 

[Renegen]

Having players take part in dual dialog when they want to take part in dual dialog is a great idea, you shouldn't stand around if you don't want to. But i believe you asked for far more than that.

edit: and no, there shouldn't be long distance dual dialog. This is the problem with your proposal. The players vote with their feet and actions.

 

[Grunker]

Having players take part in dual dialog when they want to take part in dual dialog is a great idea, you shouldn't stand around if you don't want to. But i believe you asked for far more than that.

?

I asked for two things:

1) an optional dialogue window when you're following s mate closely.

2) any time a choice or dual dialogue presents itself, other players are pulled into the dialogue, SW:ToR style, to participate in the fun.

 

[Excidium]

I think you are missing the point anyway, If you people are splitting all the time then why play co-op, just to experience the dual dialogue gimmick?

Like I said, as long as you are together doing main quests and turning them in together you won't miss out on anything worthwhile. Just play it like an MMO

When's the last time younplayed a p&p game where all characters did something completely unrelated to one-another while the GM took turns just doing single sessions? Soundsmlike a boring session to me.

Sounds like last time I played Shadowrun. And it was p. fun

 

[Zep Zepo]

Instead of the "follow" chain like in single player... How about a dialog chain in multi-player. Would work the same way as the other, connected you get the dialog, unconnected you don't. You could unconnect the chain at anytime you wanted, even in the middle of a dialog to do your sneaking and whatnot.

Zep--

 

[Renegen]

?

I asked for two things:

1) an optional dialogue window when you're following s mate closely.

2) any time a choice or dual dialogue presents itself, other players are pulled into the dialogue, SW:ToR style, to participate in the fun.

Agree on #1. #2 if you want to make the choice, then act as one unit. If you act as 2 people, then you're independent players in the same game world.

 

[Grunker]

I think you are missing the point anyway, If you people are splitting all the time then you are missing the point of co-op altogether

Like I said, as long as you are together doing main quests and turning them in together you won't miss out on anything worthwhile


Sounds like last time I played Shadowrun

Almost wrote "inb4 someone says they're always doing that". Well have fun not actually roleplaying together at your roleplaying sessions I suppose?

As for me not understanding co-op: are you saying the point of the co-op is one player passively following the other while waiting for dual dialogue etc.? Funny, Renegen is trying to convince me of the exact opposite.

 

[Gord]

The co-op dialogue can definitely be improved, no question.
And splitting will anyway not work most of the time, given the difficulty of the fights.
Maybe with carefully crafted parties, but otherwise I don't see coop with split-up parties happening very often. And indeed it would be missing the point of coop somewhat.