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Hard West - tactical turn based + wild west setting

HotSnack

Cipher
Joined
Mar 7, 2006
Messages
650
After playing this game some more I do think the intended way to play is ironman style, at least once you get comfortable with how the game flows. It's not the kind of game where you should expect to 100% all sidequests in a chapter in one run, since you need to carefully consider if its worth the risk of possibly losing a teammate or even a complete party wipe forcing a restart. A sound strategy seems to be play cautiously until you luck out and get some good cards, then try your hand on some sidequests to get more resources and fate unlocks, and even then you should be careful on taking any more risky ventures unless you need to or are confidant. The closest game I can think of thats similar to this is weird worlds in infinite space.
 

34scell

Augur
Joined
Apr 6, 2014
Messages
384
Not having overwatch actually achieves the opposite of what the devs intended, since you can't risk ending your turn too close to the enemy and have to play much more defensively. They should instead include the same close range overwatch as the enemy, but make it cost a lot of luck so you can't spam it. And have the AI avoid triggering lethal overwatch, so it works more like a barrier.
 

Nostaljaded

Savant
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
359
Not having overwatch actually achieves the opposite of what the devs intended, since you can't risk ending your turn too close to the enemy and have to play much more defensively. They should instead include the same close range overwatch as the enemy, but make it cost a lot of luck so you can't spam it. And have the AI avoid triggering lethal overwatch, so it works more like a barrier.
Seconded.

Additional Comments:
Combat Mode
Luck mechanic is well-implemented for combat C&C.
It's a single stat for both dodging shots and using (over)powered skills. Max luck is modified by items' buffs/debuffs and injuries and partially replenished on every turn.

CtH
Because game has no RNG when determining hit chance. What it does is compare your THC with enemy current Luck and if you have more THC you hit, if you have less you miss. When you miss enemy Luck is reduced equal to your THC value. Two exceptions are: 1. If your THC is 100% you always hit 2. If your THC is <20% you always miss (but still reduce enemy Luck).
...
Only RNG in the game is that at start of scenario the game rolls randomly for enemy starting Luck value.
To add on, above 80% CtH will auto increased to 100%; have not personally encounter the 20% auto reduced to 0%.
It's akin to having a 6-sided dice with 2 0s and 6s (1 and 5 being banished). Of course, there's no dice to begin with in this game (if it is as what Archangel has stated)...
So what will happen when:
1. CtH=100% while enemy luck > 100?
2. CtH<20% while enemy luck < CtH?

All the above for having a (mostly) fixed shot outcome and placating RNG complaints? :decline:

Lower to higher ground attack could have aim penalty implemented.

Gun range modifier is bonus-only.
Red range modifier should be increasingly penalized;
Does not feel right when sawed-off shotgun has a 12-tile 61% CtH (7% yellow range modifier) while the entire 18-tile to infinity red range gets a flat 54% CtH (0% red range modifier).
Right now cheesy tactic is to move-away, flank, stay-in-cover to avoid the 5-tile 100% Point Blank CtH & the adjacent-tile-no-cover-bonus OR rush-in-before-they-seen/rush-you tactic. A simple 1-2% decrement-per-tile should suffice.

Option to have different enemy placement on restarting mission.

Weapon stats and bullet count could be displayed on each of the 2 lower corners of both weapon images for easy combat strategy formulation instead of always calling up the Character Screen to look at 4-6 different weapons' stats, something like 8/2/5/2, 3/1/1/1.

'Confirm Attack' button should be bindable as well, instead of the hardcoded 'Enter' key


Strategic Mode
Missing the same hotkeys assignment in both Character & Card Screen for 'Select Next Character', 'Select Previous Character', 'Select Character #'.

Good to implement a bindable hotkey to open & close Card Screen in Character Screen as well.


TLDR If you are fine with nuXCOM combat play with a fixed shooting outcome and a single group of alerted enemy rather than pod-based, it's a pretty decent 1-time playthrough for its setting and CYOA. Few more replays if you are a C&C-see-all/completionist fag.
Dropping game after playing on Hard with injuries at 2nd scenario 50% mark. 2AP combat, as before, feels limiting.
From combat mechanics perspective, Invisible Inc provides more value (to me, even with their 100% shots) than Hard West at their same original pricing.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
7,269
From combat mechanics perspective, Invisible Inc provides more value (to me, even with their 100% shots) than Hard West at their same original pricing.
I'll agree with this, but for some reason I never really lumped the two in the same category. Invis. Inc. I'd say is a pretty significant class above, but I don't think it's an either/or proposition between the two. Both are incline-ish (although Invis. Inc. is true incline while this is just ... inclining a declined 2ap system to more of a plateau?)
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
5,972
Location
Yiffing in Hell
Is it just me or are the setup-allowed missions incredibly easy to breeze through? Just did a setup mission where the goal was to capture a fort and then hold out against defenders from the east and west. Setup my team in such a way all 4 guys had 100% THC from the get go. Then it was a matter of cleaning up the other 2 people blatantly in the open, after which I had more than enough turns to rush to the east/west gate, set up my guys and - with use of dillengers and cone blasts - take out literally all of the reinforcements in one turn.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
I dont know why people would cry over the difficulty. You can always lower it, I play on normal with injuries and did the first two scenarios 100% without a problem. Some stuff is overpowered (dont know if it looks that way on hard ironman) like goldenbullet or the invisibility at night. Is there a difference in the madness scenario if you choose to try to avoid going insane?
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Would be great If I could move freely in the setup stage

Not having overwatch actually achieves the opposite of what the devs intended, since you can't risk ending your turn too close to the enemy and have to play much more defensively. They should instead include the same close range overwatch as the enemy, but make it cost a lot of luck so you can't spam it. And have the AI avoid triggering lethal overwatch, so it works more like a barrier.

Not having an overwatch skill also makes it harder to set up ambushs. I watched dozens of men swarming the only entrance to a building, while two of mine stood in cover at the other side, instead of beeing able to mow them down because I had the advantage I was repeteadly killed because they are still able to come close enough and get shots off while it should be the other way around me mowing them down with cone shots if they are dumb enough to come in.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
Would be great If I could move freely in the setup stage

Not having overwatch actually achieves the opposite of what the devs intended, since you can't risk ending your turn too close to the enemy and have to play much more defensively. They should instead include the same close range overwatch as the enemy, but make it cost a lot of luck so you can't spam it. And have the AI avoid triggering lethal overwatch, so it works more like a barrier.

Not having an overwatch skill also makes it harder to set up ambushs. I watched dozens of men swarming the only entrance to a building, while two of mine stood in cover at the other side, instead of beeing able to mow them down because I had the advantage I was repeteadly killed because they are still able to come close enough and get shots off while it should be the other way around me mowing them down with cone shots if they are dumb enough to come in.
So you failed in your tactics and are now blaming lack of overwatch?
Casualfag confirmed.
 

Cromwell

Arcane
Joined
Feb 16, 2013
Messages
5,443
Would be great If I could move freely in the setup stage

Not having overwatch actually achieves the opposite of what the devs intended, since you can't risk ending your turn too close to the enemy and have to play much more defensively. They should instead include the same close range overwatch as the enemy, but make it cost a lot of luck so you can't spam it. And have the AI avoid triggering lethal overwatch, so it works more like a barrier.

Not having an overwatch skill also makes it harder to set up ambushs. I watched dozens of men swarming the only entrance to a building, while two of mine stood in cover at the other side, instead of beeing able to mow them down because I had the advantage I was repeteadly killed because they are still able to come close enough and get shots off while it should be the other way around me mowing them down with cone shots if they are dumb enough to come in.
So you failed in your tactics and are now blaming lack of overwatch?
Casualfag confirmed.

youre not only possibly retarded. If i have the best position the Game should give me options to use to my advantage. If you storm a hallway while guns are pointed at you you will probably die, here it is entirely possible to kill every man who holds theese guns because they have no way to shoot at you while you storm into the hallway regardless of you beeing exposed and have no defense.

The way they did it theres no incentive to guard entrance points because the enemy can storm in and kill the guard, while you as a player dont have this option, if you storm in carelessly you will get shot. Together with the sometimes very stupid AI this leads to idiotic missions. For example the one in the church where you free the nun.

I sneak into the church and get informed that I will be attacked since its a trap. Instead of beeing able to flee the same way I came after hearing my target isnt there I am forced to kill everyone. So I set up and await my attackers. First I have to shoot at one of them since they dont know I am there but the game says its a trap and I have to kill all who attack me (which is no one at this point) so I am forced to engage. After attacking one and going back in they sent a few men which I kill, and then nothing more happens.

I have to go out and storm some shack to kill them all because the game says so and of course they are able to shoot at me If I go into overwatch range. Thats just bad design.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
1,797
Location
Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Lol I broke the game.

1.In the "As good as dead" scenario do the cannibal farm (bonus if you get a serious injury), then go to the town of hope and do the graves quest. Open all the wrong graves to gain a serious injury for each. Do other stuff that ends up in serious injuries. Collect as much injuries as possible on Warren.

2. Do the bank robbery without a shot

3.???

4. PROFIT as they all turn into bonuses.

Enjoy a massive pool of HP , +1HP/round regen and +2 dmg to all attacks.
Bonus points if you manage to make a straight with Warren's default card (+1/2/3 HP regen normal/in shadow/in nightmare)
Double bonus points if that hand includes equalisation (everyone on map drops to 1 HP.. guess who knows how to regenerate).

I run up to people, laugh at their puny reaction shots and then proceed to unload into them with a water gun. They all just die.
 

dukeofwhales

Cipher
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
423
What causes the injuries to turn into benfits? A certain number of missions, or a certain point in each scenario?
 

dukeofwhales

Cipher
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
423
Oh, that should be fairly manageable then. I've only had one become a scar and wasn't sure when it happened (got a bung eye right at the start) and have healed all my others since but I do like the cost/benefit of deciding if an injury can be dealt with for a permanent benefit, especially since you don't seem to be able to bail from missions once you start them.
 

anus_pounder

Arcane
Joined
Mar 20, 2010
Messages
5,972
Location
Yiffing in Hell
Oh, that should be fairly manageable then. I've only had one become a scar and wasn't sure when it happened (got a bung eye right at the start) and have healed all my others since but I do like the cost/benefit of deciding if an injury can be dealt with for a permanent benefit, especially since you don't seem to be able to bail from missions once you start them.

+ DMG injury is great, but a spinal fracture, gashed hand and gouged eye are all excellent injuries as well. You can't say no to free +aim.
 

veevoir

Klytus, I'm bored
Patron
Joined
Jan 15, 2015
Messages
1,797
Location
Riding the train, high on cocaine
Shadorwun: Hong Kong BattleTech
Oh, that should be fairly manageable then. I've only had one become a scar and wasn't sure when it happened (got a bung eye right at the start) and have healed all my others since but I do like the cost/benefit of deciding if an injury can be dealt with for a permanent benefit, especially since you don't seem to be able to bail from missions once you start them.

+ DMG injury is great, but a spinal fracture, gashed hand and gouged eye are all excellent injuries as well. You can't say no to free +aim.

The only game where missing an eye, half a brain and a missing triggerfinger makes you the deadliest gunslinger in the west. After all, hey, "you were mostly using that other finger anyway"
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
Oh, that should be fairly manageable then. I've only had one become a scar and wasn't sure when it happened (got a bung eye right at the start) and have healed all my others since but I do like the cost/benefit of deciding if an injury can be dealt with for a permanent benefit, especially since you don't seem to be able to bail from missions once you start them.

+ DMG injury is great, but a spinal fracture, gashed hand and gouged eye are all excellent injuries as well. You can't say no to free +aim.

The only game where missing an eye, half a brain and a missing triggerfinger makes you the deadliest gunslinger in the west. After all, hey, "you were mostly using that other finger anyway"
Look at it this way: Your enemies relevant defense score goes down because they shit their pants after seeing your badassery.
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,886
DId the patch appear on GoG? I only have 3 part full installation in my gog library (which is strange because when I installed it few days ago the installation was only 2 parts).
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
Patron
Joined
Dec 24, 2008
Messages
1,871,744
Location
Land of Rape & Honey ❤️
Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2


dqvI5Oz.jpg
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
this game is so fucking cool
 

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