ProphetSword
Arcane
I think gameplay is far more important than what kind of engine you use. If the gameplay is shit, it won't matter if it's 2D, 2.5, 3D or super-virtual-4D. So my preference is that the game not suck.
I think some forms of gameplay are enabled or prohibited by particular types of engine, so the engine can dictate how the game plays and strengths/weaknesses it may or may not have.I think gameplay is far more important than what kind of engine you use. If the gameplay is shit, it won't matter if it's 2D, 2.5, 3D or super-virtual-4D. So my preference is that the game not suck.
2d stands the test of time for anyone with a modicum of good taste, 3d on the other hand, depreciates very fast as it ages in terms of aesthetics.
There is just no context, 2d isometric rpgs will invariably look better as long as the quality of the art is good.
'sup drog3D is waaaay better than 2D.
2D used to look better but today with advancement of 3D, it's not much better looking.
example of a beatiful 3D engine, D:OS:
In 2D games, like POE, you can't see what's behind this building and when your characters come there they're hidden behind the wall.. so retarded:
So yeah, my conclusion would be, in codex's dictionary, if you're a retarded fucktard who prefer looks over gameplay then I guess isometric 2D is for you(as are all Biothesda games made post 2005.), but if you're a hardcore RPG player like I am, you'll appreciate the gameplay more than looks.
Cheers!
:gets_ready_for_shitstorm:
Best example: BG 2, it looks great still imo.
For me, best example is PST, char avatars in that game and their animations are just beautiful. They look far more "real" to me than their 3D counterparts in any RPG/strategy to date.
That's because the companions in Torment don't have any generic animations: they're all unique (i.e. Annah holsters her punch daggers when combat ends). Of course the trade-off is the limited equippability (though this is a general issue with sprite-based characters).For me, best example is PST, char avatars in that game and their animations are just beautiful. They look far more "real" to me than their 3D counterparts in any RPG/strategy to date.
Screw pre-rendered backgrounds. I like my game world to be interactive.
Well, rendering/drawing it from a different angle might solve some issues with camera control (what's behind that statue? Oh, a beggar), that that would work mostly with pre-rendered backgrounds (just change the camera position and angle, then adjust the code to take that into account), rather than drawn by hand (redrawing the entire map from a different angle).I think the sweet spot is 3D models in pre-rendered 2D environments looks amazing, like in PoE. The bad thing is: you lose control over the camera.
That means combat can be annoying when you have buildings in the map, so dungeons can't have too many objects not in corners.
But at the same time, it can look soooo good, and 3D models don't even need to be too detailed. It should be good for indie developers without a high budget.
I don't know, ToEE character models weren't that good at all.PoE models don't look as good as ToEE, in terms of visuals they are the weakest part of the package.
End of rine.Hello. I remember reading, probably way back in 2012 (I can't find the source) that the technique that was used in PoE for the graphics (2d images) would allow for a higher volume of content to be developed more quickly. In practice was that really the case? Do you feel that this particular technique that you and your team chose to employ proved more effective than whatever you could otherwise do in 3d? Have you learned ways to further optimize the process? Forgive my lack of technical knowledge
Josh Sawyer: Very much so. For most of the project we’ve had 4 environment artists. There is no way we could have made a game of PoE’s size and detail in 3D from scratch with those resources in the same amount of time. Even so, we learned a lot over the course of development (about Maya and Mental Ray) and our environment building and render times are now much, much faster. When we are able to start working on the expansion, I think the artists are going to produce some really amazing environments.
I don't know, ToEE character models weren't that good at all.
False, especially now.2d stands the test of time for anyone with a modicum of good taste, 3d on the other hand, depreciates very fast as it ages in terms of aesthetics.
There is just no context, 2d isometric rpgs will invariably look better as long as the quality of the art is good.
It also forces the artist to control every single pixel of animation.2D allows the artist control of every single pixel of every animation.
That's because artists are lazy and/or shit. See the original Witcher or Unreal for an example of 3D grafics with distinct style to it and its effects.These days, most of the visuals have lost all distinction. There are a set number of methods for doing smoke and fire effects, the ice spell has the transparency radius because alpha blending is a standard feature, everything just looks the same.
Except you don't. The more you want to do with your scene the more distinct bitmaps you have to manipulate and blend.You don't settle for the next best thing, worry about overall polygon counts in the scene - no, you just draw.
Corpses are currently very expensive, because of stuff like physics.And what remains hilarious, is that with 2D games corpses were always cheap. Yet even in 2014, in 3D games corpses still aren't cheap, and it's still normal practice to make them disappear quickly.
Brick diplomacy is gud.You mean like interactive walls and ground?
Brick diplomacy increased.
Meanwhile at :2D is also more cost and time effective:
Hello. I remember reading, probably way back in 2012 (I can't find the source) that the technique that was used in PoE for the graphics (2d images) would allow for a higher volume of content to be developed more quickly. In practice was that really the case? Do you feel that this particular technique that you and your team chose to employ proved more effective than whatever you could otherwise do in 3d? Have you learned ways to further optimize the process? Forgive my lack of technical knowledge
Josh Sawyer: Very much so. For most of the project we’ve had 4 environment artists. There is no way we could have made a game of PoE’s size and detail in 3D from scratch with those resources in the same amount of time. Even so, we learned a lot over the course of development (about Maya and Mental Ray) and our environment building and render times are now much, much faster. When we are able to start working on the expansion, I think the artists are going to produce some really amazing environments.
End of rine.
You mean these "10"?Meanwhile at :
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Joel.../Skyrims_Modular_Approach_to_Level_Design.php
Pretty much the entirety of Skyrim was made by a team of 10 - including both asset artists and mappers/designers.
we’ve had 4 environment artists
TL;DR:You mean these "10"?
Concept Art
Special Effects
Additional Effects
Lead Animator
Animation
Additional Animation
Lead Character Artist
Character Art
Additional Character Art
Interface Art
Additional Graphic Design
I am retarded, please end my misery.
I'm debating the claim that 2D is necessarily more efficient.How can you have such bad taste Draq?