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KickStarter Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption - adventure-RPG from the creators of Quest for Glory

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I mostly ignore achievements because the majority of them are pointless busywork and games bore me quickly, but in principle they're good design. Players have been seeking challenge and reward in emergent gameplay since games of any kind existed (baseball card statistics are part of this), Achievements are just a developer provided catalog of the same thing, with boxes you can check off.
 

J_C

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I mostly ignore achievements because the majority of them are pointless busywork and games bore me quickly, but in principle they're good design. Players have been seeking challenge and reward in emergent gameplay since games of any kind existed (baseball card statistics are part of this), Achievements are just a developer provided catalog of the same thing, with boxes you can check off.
I actually got a request for my game to implement easy to get achievements and implement a LOT of it. Like, the guy asked me to implmenets hundreds of achievements, which are awarded for doing small things like entering a new building, talking to somebody and small things like that.
 

J_C

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I mostly ignore achievements because the majority of them are pointless busywork and games bore me quickly, but in principle they're good design. Players have been seeking challenge and reward in emergent gameplay since games of any kind existed (baseball card statistics are part of this), Achievements are just a developer provided catalog of the same thing, with boxes you can check off.
I actually got a request for my game to implement easy to get achievements and implement a LOT of it. Like, the guy asked me to implmenets hundreds of achievements, which are awarded for doing small things like entering a new building, talking to somebody and small things like that.

Don't do meaningless achievos. Busywork for you and pointless to me.

Kyrandia 3 had the best score system in adventures, everyone should give it a whirl.
Yeah, I'm not gonna waste time on that kind of useless achievements.
 
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I personally never played the Sierra adventures for score, and I played them all. It was something extra for the spergs, I guess, but I never bothered with them - just like I never bother with achievements.
 

Zed Duke of Banville

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The points system in classic Sierra adventure games including Quest for Glory could be sort of like achievements. :M
The Zork trilogy had a points system wherein the player needed to obtain all possible points to "win" each game. Not remotely like achievements; just a measure of how many puzzles the player had solved "correctly".
 

Tramboi

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In Sierra games you didn't need all the points to finish the game so there WAS an achievement side to this.
Me, I didn't care. I'm a loser and an underachiever :D
 

Blaine

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Grab the Codex by the pussy
In Sierra games you didn't need all the points to finish the game so there WAS an achievement side to this.
Me, I didn't care. I'm a loser and an underachiever :D

Maybe, but arguably they were simply an indicator that there were actions, conversation options, or other little details that you'd missed. They didn't pretend to be more than what they were.

Achievements are the equivalent of saying "GOOD BOY! DAT'S A GOOD BOY, WHO'S A GOOD BOY? WHADDA GOOD BOY!" and patting a retarded poodle on the head for managing to wobble out the front door correctly and take a piss relatively straight without soaking its own hindquarters in filth.
 

Aeschylus

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Well, in earlier Sierra games, points served the purpose of letting you know if what you just did was something you were actually supposed to do or not. i.e. There were no points for eating the pie in KQ5, and it cost you an item, so you might guess that it was a bad idea and reload, sparing yourself a dead end.
 

Blackthorne

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There definitely is a bit of a Pavlov's Dog element to achievements for some - I know people who collect them obsessively, but whatever. For QFI, we tried to make them fun, cheeky and even stupid something. Like, I believe you get an award for taking a piss on things. I mean, come on, we literally took the piss out of achievements on that one. I think on Steam you can make some achievements hidden, as well, from public view, so I'll probably do a few of those in the future too.


Bt
 

Barbarian

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The points system could be nice. Particularly in the Gabriel Knight games, where you actually got extra content for going the extra mile(specially in GK3).

Achievements I never cared about at all. It is a silly idea.
 

Tommy Gun

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Aren’t achievements more for the devs, they use then to track the way we play, the things we do in the game, market research.
 

Blackthorne

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Aren’t achievements more for the devs, they use then to track the way we play, the things we do in the game, market research.

As a dev, I can tell you I've tracked exactly jack shit when it comes to achievements. For our games, they were purely fun little bonuses and not essential to the game or story. Other devs might use them for tracking and market research, but they might be successful, whereas we just make adventure games and hope some rando in a little corner of the earth enjoys it.


Bt
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/1844317

Lights, Camera, Action!

What’s New at Hero-U?

The University is preparing to open its doors for the Fall Semester! But first we need to have the Campus Visit (Alpha Testing), Entry Examinations (Targeted Beta Testing), and Orientation (Final Testing). It takes serious preparation to get the most value from a Hero-U education.

We added a couple of steps to the project over the last two months to dramatically improve the game’s visuals and reliability. First, with the guidance of two programmers with serious Unity credits, we upgraded the development system from Unity 4.7 to version 5.5.

We knew that would cause some disruption and extra work, but the change lets us take advantage of the latest Unity features and support. The biggest upgrade has been in our ability to effectively light scenes.

9a999d498278322f6d6b4e9579a54af6_original.jpg

Catacombs entrance before lighting upgrades

In the above image (just after porting to Unity 5.5), the contrast is low except on Shawn, who appears to have a spotlight on him. Everything looks a little muddy and indistinct. It's fully playable, but not as good as it should be.

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Same Catacombs entrance with improved lighting

The improved lighting highlights some of the detail and sets the mood. Shawn looks more natural.

Let there be Light!
When we started building a castle to house Hero-U, it felt a little empty. Sure, there were classrooms and corridors, the dining hall and the great hall, the vestibule and the recreation center, the garden and the courtyard. But you know how it is with a castle - all that stonework can get pretty cold in the Winter.

That’s when we brought in portraits and tapestries for insulation and warmth. They also help us tell the story and the history of the University and some of our notable alumni. Tapestries are also pretty good at concealing secret doors and hiding places. You didn’t read that here.

At that point, we naively thought we were done decorating the castle. Then our artists stepped in and turned on the lights. And the lights shone throughout the castle, and it is good. Man is it good! Maybe a few “before and after” pictures will help you see how important lighting is to establishing the drama and mood in each scene.

Meanwhile, we continue adding new vignettes, closeups, and custom animation to bring more of the game to life.

3b9924d7c10334ffafff534a944d7759_original.jpg

Courtyard Before Re-Lighting

This nighttime Courtyard view got the "dark" right, but feels "2D" and loses much of the beauty of the scene. Unity 5.5 let us keep the feel of the scene while bringing it to life with better lighting.

b2971ecc8639a618cd1bb0a7ebd10262_original.jpg

The Courtyard with Strategically-Placed Lights

Here's the same courtyard re-lit. It's still obviously nighttime, but now the lights work and some details come to life. Shawn has also been toned down. (By default, Unity 5.5 lighting is about twice as bright as in Unity 4.7.)

We've had to make these changes to every scene in the game - over 60 of them - so our artists had a busy February and March. But the difference is "night and day" in bringing out the details and quality of the artwork.

Getting Ready to Graduate
After over four years of work and more than twice the original Kickstarter budget, we can finally see the graduation stage not too far in the distance. The extra lights probably helped. Here’s our current schedule for the initial testing phase:
  • 1 May 2017 - Feature complete - all “adventure” dialogue and interactions
  • 1 June - Castle Alpha Test - All team members and Insider Backers
  • 1 July - Castle Targeted Beta - Test specific areas in the Castle
  • 1 July - Wine Cellar opens to Insider Backers for Combat Alpha Testing
  • Etc. Specific dates will depend on early testing progress.
For this targeted Beta, we will need a few dedicated volunteers to test the game. There’s nothing like game testing to spoil all the fun of playing the game. If you are sort of person who likes to continually throw rocks to build up your throwing skills to the max (not that we’d ever want to make you do that sort of thing in a game) or who pulls back curtains to look for the man running things behind them, or who uses a magnifying glass to reveal every last detail, we could use your detection skills to make Hero-U better.

I will set up a web page and database for alpha and beta testers, then issue invitations to volunteer backers next month. We’ll be trying something new - assigning each beta tester to a particular area or game day so that we can make sure every event is tested throughout the game.

Beta testing is much more than playing the game - you’ll need to keep a critical eye on everything you see, and play through the same sequence multiple times with small variations to identify bugs that only show up after a certain sequence of actions.

If you’ve ever wondered why commercial games could possibly ship with “glaring errors”, it’s because many of those errors only show up after a specific set of moves or in a particular case of random numbers. This will be a real challenge for everyone who volunteers. That’s why we don’t have a fixed shipment schedule - we’ll ship when the game is done - and fun!

Resource Reminders
Please keep your email and address current at https://hero-u-adventure-role-playing-game.backerkit.com

Participate in the Hero-U forum at http://www.hero-u.net/forum/

Our FaceBook page is https://www.facebook.com/TheSchoolForHeroes/.

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Shawn Enters the Catacombs
 

Boleskine

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Those new screens do look much better than the old ones. Happy to see the Coles are nearing the finish line.
 

Boleskine

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So You Want to Be a Hero Again: An Interview with Corey Cole

Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption is an upcoming hybrid RPG-adventure game by none other than Lori and Corey Cole, the creators of the groundbreaking series, Quest for Glory, which first hit stores in 1989. After four years and two successful Kickstarter campaigns, the first in a planned series of games that will see players returning to the universe of the classic Sierra adventure games is nearing completion with a backer-exclusive Alpha test just around the corner.

“The roots reach back to Quest for Glory, but are quite distinct from it.”
The Coles were gracious enough to take a break from their crunch to chat with me about Hero-U and the unique challenges that have come along with it, including funding a large portion of the game directly out of their pockets, managing a largely remote development team, and combining two dramatically different game genres to create something that looks truly special in today's gaming landscape.

GamerHUD:

Hi Corey and Lori,

Thanks so much for taking some time to chat with me about Hero-U. With your most recent update on Kickstarter, I get the sense that you and your teams are really in crunch mode now, so I'll try not to monopolize too much of your schedules.

Hero-U+Great+Hall.png

For my own part, Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption is a project that I'm very emotionally invested in. It's one of only a handful of Kickstarter projects that I've backed and for good reason. I grew up playing the Quest for Glory series, and I mark it as one of the most influential works of fiction in my life. As a kid, I used to daydream about one day becoming a paladin. Naturally, I jumped on board as soon as I heard the Coles were planning a return to the universe I had fallen in love with so many years ago.

First off, can you tell me what the original catalyst behind Hero-U was? Have you guys been wanting to return to the Quest for Glory universe (i.e., Gloriana) for a while, or did you originally conceive of it as an entirely independent story and setting?

Corey:

A fan who is now a successful fantasy author – Mishell Baker – co-wrote the first of a planned series of young adult novels loosely based on themes in Quest for Glory, “How to Be a Hero”. Mishell came up with the idea of a web site to promote the books, and Lori and I later took it over. We expanded it into the School for Heroes website and thought we should make a game based on that.

So the roots reach back to Quest for Glory, but are quite distinct from it. In particular, I’ve been very careful to avoid anything remotely resembling infringement of Activision’s copyrights on the Quest for Glory games. Gloriana is “our world”, going back to D&D games we ran at least a decade before we started work on Hero’s Quest / Quest for Glory. One of two worlds actually – we had another “pocket universe” in the parallel world of Coriann, whose amazingly creative name comes from “Corey” and “Lori Ann”.

“Hero-U is different from most adventure games in that we’ve mostly avoided having arbitrary puzzles... mostly the game is about exploration, discovery, and relationships. Oh, and fighting bad creatures for riches and glory.”
GH:

As a project, Hero-U outgrew the original Kickstarter pitch almost immediately. I remember some reluctance to even call the original version an adventure game, and you were demo-ing (if memory serves) a sort-of turn-based combat system. Now it's a full-blown adventure game and RPG hybrid like the QFG series was, which was always something that was unique to those games. How does Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption combine elements of both genres in new and interesting ways?

Corey:

As for “outgrowing”, I think we were overly ambitious from the start. The Kickstarter campaign barely met its goal – a fraction of the budget of a normal adventure game – and we pretty much promised a game as rich as a Quest for Glory to get there. We modeled our campaign after Broken Age (the “Double Fine Adventure”). That campaign got 8 times as much as we did, and still ended up going over budget. Our proposed one-year schedule was based more on the budget than on reality, but we always wanted and intended to deliver much more game than could realistically be done under that budget.

Combining adventure and RPG was probably a silly idea. Then again, combining RPG and adventure in Quest for Glory was crazy too. This time, we have turn-based combat that is more tactical than in Quest for Glory. We also have a broad selection of weapons, armor, and other combat tools that QfG did not provide. Hero-U is different from most adventure games in that we’ve mostly avoided having arbitrary puzzles. There are a few “find this and use it to solve that” puzzles, but mostly the game is about exploration, discovery, and relationships. Oh, and fighting bad creatures for riches and glory. Most of the combat is optional; players who want a pure adventure game can stealth past the monsters and focus on discovery.

Showing off the updated lighting effects afforded by Unity 5.5 in the latest Kickstarter update

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b2971ecc8639a618cd1bb0a7ebd10262_original.jpg

GH:

The general premise wasn't the only thing that changed. It wasn't long after the initial Kickstarter campaign got funded that the general aesthetic of the game really started to take shape. Eriq Chang had produced some really gorgeous artwork for the initial pitch but departed the project shortly afterwards, and since then you've announced a number of artists on the game including John Paul Selwood and Terry Robinson, both of whom have created some more classical-style artwork for the game. This leads me to a few questions:

How has the overall feel and tone and atmosphere of Hero-U changed for you in terms of writing, artwork, and gameplay (both conceptually and in development) since you first started?

Corey:

“At Sierra, when it became clear we needed more people, they assigned more people to the team. It’s much tougher as an indie long after we paid out the Kickstart funds.”
The changes we made in Hero-U from the original concept were mostly forced on us, but we’re very happy with the improvements they made. The original programmer quit a month into the project, followed shortly by the lead artist, both for personal reasons. Terry didn’t like the cartoony flat tiled graphics, so moved us to pseudo-3D isometric art. The programmers we brought on had a hard time making that work, and I had a hard time finding excellent 2D animators. Eventually that forced us into going almost-full 3D.

This added a lot of additional time and expense to the project. It’s actually reminiscent of Quest for Glory V, where we changed graphics and development engines two or three times, and the game took two extra years and $3 million more to develop than the original plan.

Other than the visual look, we’re actually making the game we originally proposed on Kickstarter. However, we made a lot of promises that have turned out to be very time-consuming. In particular, our focus on social interactions with other characters requires a huge amount of dialogue. Total game text is on the order of the largest Harry Potter novel - Order of the Phoenix - 255,000 words and climbing.

GH:

I understand Lori does most if not all the writing in the game? That sounds like a monumental task! How do you manage it?

Corey:

“Total game text is on the order of the largest Harry Potter novel - Order of the Phoenix - 255,000 words and climbing.”
Lori wrote essentially all of the dialogue in Quest for Glory with just a few contributions from me, and she is doing the same on Hero-U. This is possible only because we’ve stretched the schedule – she’s been at it for over four years and is *almost* done. I had planned to write all the non-dialogue text, but that’s been a challenge. Fortunately, Josh Mandel joined the team and has taken over the lion’s share of writing descriptions and object interaction text. I doubt you’ll be able to tell his writing from mine in the game; we have similar styles. Josh previously contributed much of the writing in our Shannara game.

GH:

Because your team seems more dynamic than one might find in a smaller project, but also markedly different from some AAA game dev studios or when you were both at Sierra, what challenges has that presented for you, and how has it enhanced the (near) final product?

Corey:

It's been very challenging. Many terrific team members left the project for better paying or longer-term opportunities. Each time that happens, we’ve lost knowledge and expertise, and had to search for new developers. I’m very happy with the team now, and I’m hoping they’ll all make it at least to release. If the game sells well enough initially, we hope to keep most of them on for the rest of the series.

1491950831663

At Sierra, when it became clear we needed more people, they assigned more people to the team. It’s much tougher as an indie long after we paid out the Kickstart funds. Now Lori and I are paying team members out of personal loans and our own rather shallow pockets. Once the game releases, we might or might not make some of that back. That’s a lot different from working for a company on a fixed salary.

GH:

Final questions. First, do you have any plans for immediately after Rogue to Redemption launches? You've said before that you envisioned Hero-U as a series of games, for example, but do you think you'll head right back into development on the next game?

Corey:

We have a ton of work ahead of us after launching Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption. We’ll need to work with distributors, try to get publicity, fulfill physical orders such as game boxes, posters, and art prints, fulfill new direct orders, and so on. We owe a visit to a fan in Germany as a Kickstarter reward, and hopefully we can meet with European gaming press while we’re over there.

1491950944882

What we do after that depends on initial success of the game. We might add foreign language localization, speech, ports to consoles or tablets. Then we’ll get started on the design of Hero-U 2: Wizard’s Way. But if the first game sales are dismal, we’ll instead refund pre-orders of the second game and try to figure out how we can dig our way out of massive debt. Every game production is a gamble, and this is a distinctly personal one.

We are very thankful for our backers who have enabled us to take on this ambitious game project, and we are doing our best to give them a beautiful and fun game experience.

GH:

One last question: will we see any Liontaurs in Hero-U?

Corey:

There are no Liontaurs currently enrolled in Hero-U. However, there are many statues and paintings commemorating famous people, fabulous creatures, and Heroes. And of course quite a variety of fantastic and terrifying creatures guarding the dungeons and catacombs beneath the castle.

“We are very thankful for our backers who have enabled us to take on this ambitious game project, and we are doing our best to give them a beautiful and fun game experience.”
GH:

Thanks, Corey!

To learn more about Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption, visit the official website at http://Hero-U.com
 

TheWorld

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I hope the best for these guys, since I've grown up playing Quest For Glory (Trial By Fire is maybe my favourite game ever). There's been a mix of unluckiness and stupidity in their management of this project... sure as hell you can't develop a game with half your team quitting every other month... i hope we'll have something decent at the end but more than that I hope they're not gonna go live under a bridge. I think they really believe in this thing.

The graphics at least have much improved, even though the 2d artwork are done by somebody who doesn't have the slightest idea of what's perspective.
 

Infinitron

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Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/transolargames/hero-u-rogue-to-redemption/posts/1911094

Sprinting Towards Alpha Testing

We’re going through the “final” push towards outside alpha testing of Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption. I put “final” in quotes because this will be the first of several sprints towards releasing the game we’ve been working on for almost five years.

It’s hard to convey the thousands of things that go into a game. Small details make the game feel alive. Here are some of the non-game things we need to get in before we can start outside testing:

  • “Branding” the game as pre-release so people know it isn’t the final version
  • Choosing “first test” players out of our 750 qualified alpha testers
  • Adding bug & feature request reporting to the game
  • Setting up a QA/test database for tracking reports
  • “Triage” on reports to eliminate duplicates, already-fixed, and low priority items
  • Regression testing system to avoid breaking features while fixing bugs
  • Internal testing to make sure we don’t ship a broken alpha test
862a9284206b1d5fce4a02a4a63f7b9f_original.jpg

Just Enough Paperwork to Make a Game

Once we have all of those elements in place (soon!), I will send a survey to backers who chose a reward that includes Alpha Testing. We will accept a small number to do the first outside tests and help us shake down the reporting system. The second alpha will go out to a larger number, and the full alpha version will be made available to everyone at that level. (Don’t worry - if you want to wait for the complete, polished game, just don’t download any Alpha or Beta version.)

The first tests will be solely in the Hero-U castle. Once we have some feedback and improvements to the castle, we will expand the test to include combat areas - the wine cellar, sea caves, catacombs, and finally the dungeon. These areas combine elements of adventure and role-playing gaming as in our Quest for Glory games.

With Hero-U coming down to the wire. Here’s what we’ve all been working on:

  • Al - new animation for Shawn and certain monsters
  • Charles - improving room behavior, fixing scripting issues
  • Cidney - Helping us with UI issues and testing
  • Corey - administration, achievements, and Shawn’s “task list”
  • Graham - cleaning up some rooms
  • Ian - improving the character sheet, journal and inventory screens
  • John Paul - showing Shawn’s status visually
  • Josh M. - text for examining and using things Shawn finds
  • Joshua S. - throwing items in combat, general problem-solving
  • Judy - Composer improvements, helping find errors
  • Lori - final dialogue, such as dealing with the Dire Rat Queen
A Torturous Process
Recently heard in a Hero-U team meeting, “I’m currently working in the torture chamber and having fun with it.” And Josh wasn’t even joshing. Yes, there is a “dungeon”, complete with torture chamber, left over from some former residents of the castle. This plays an important part in the “meta story”, the background behind game events, that makes it possible for us to plan a multi-game Hero-U series.

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Having Fun in the Torture Chamber

I’ve been in touch with Geekify about creating physical goods for backers. These will ship after the downloadable game release so that boxes can include a solid version of the game that incorporates early player feedback.

There is good news for “Game in a DVD case” backers. Once upon a time, we had three levels of physical boxed game packaging - DVD case, small retail box, large “big box” for collectors. Because of the way quantity discounts work, and to simplify fulfillment, I’ve decided to upgrade everyone to the “big box”. It’s going to be really nice and unique to our patient backers - no torture involved.

Look for another update by the end of June with detailed Alpha Test news and instructions. Thank you so much for being patient as we continue to solve the thousands of issues that come up in the development of every significant game. I remember one supposedly-finished game at Sierra that had a 4-foot tall stack of bug reports waiting to be addressed, many trivial, but some real show-stoppers. That’s why we have to take the time to get this game right before sending it out to you. We think you’ll find the result an experience worth the wait.

Please keep your information (particularly email and physical address) up to date on BackerKit: https://hero-u-adventure-role-playing-game.backerkit.com.

4d9ab56b9c54431335df49bbd63b89c6_original.jpg

Torture Chamber 3D Layout
 
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Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Strap Yourselves In Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. I helped put crap in Monomyth
There is good news for “Game in a DVD case” backers. Once upon a time, we had three levels of physical boxed game packaging - DVD case, small retail box, large “big box” for collectors. Because of the way quantity discounts work, and to simplify fulfillment, I’ve decided to upgrade everyone to the “big box”. It’s going to be really nice and unique to our patient backers - no torture involved.

And of course the comments section proves once again that no good deed ever goes unpunished. All physical copy-tier backers get a free big box upgrade and some people complain about that. You'd think that this is in everyone's best interest, since no one's being deprived of anything and the Coles gave a pretty valid reason for why they went with this move. They're - understandably - trying to save a few bucks and do it in a way that ultimately benefits the backers. And yet some folks still complain. Sure, I'd be a bit salty too if I coughed up $150 just to see $70-tier backers receive the same physical reward. But actually giving the dev shit about it, simply because of some misguided sense of elitism ("muh unique Kickstarter-Graduate-only Collector’s Edition Box")? You'd think that people would be embarrassed to come across as so unbelievably petty.
 
Last edited:

Kz3r0

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27,012
Sure, I'd be a bit salty too if I coughed up $150 just to see $70-tier backers receive the same physical reward.
Sorry but they are right, the Coles should have upgraded their tier as well, I know that when comes to videogames KKKodexers go full Communist but people out there, expecially Capitalists, when pay more usually want more than others, sure Kickstarter theorically is about supporting deserving projects and not shoopping but we all know that it doesn't work that way, this is nothing different from backing a game at twenty amd seeing it go on sale for ten.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Corey Cole on how the teams changed Quest for Glory (Hero's Quest) and Hero-U from the original concepts: http://hero-u.com/it-takes-a-team/

It Takes a Team


It-takes-a-Team.jpg


Lori and I frequently get accolades about the amazing things we did with Quest for Glory and our other games. We smile and graciously accept the compliments. After all, our games were pretty special, and we had a lot to do with them.

But that’s far from the whole story. The last time I “made a game” completely by myself was probably the tic-tac-toe game I designed and programmed in 1976. (I almost typed 1776, and it feels about that far back.)

Every commercial game that Lori or I designed was created by a talented team of developers – programmers, artists, musicians, writers (for some of the games), and testers – along with a management team that assigned those developers and made sure everyone got paid no matter how long the game took to make.

Developers come in all shapes and sizes – concept artists, painters, illustrators 2D and 3D, animators, tool programmers, composers, audio technicians, content programmers, and a couple of dozen other categories. Of course, on a small team such as ours, everyone wears multiple hats – I pay the bills, write most of these posts, craft some game text, a bit of scripting, and so on. Our lead 2D background artist taught himself to use 3D tools so he could work on more of the game. He also created our box cover art, has done a bit of animation, and so on.

The general rule is that, no matter how much work has been done on a game, there’s always that much or more to still get done.

QfG1_ending.jpg


QG1 Cast and Crew

Why So Serious?
Look at the original Hero’s Quest (before it became Quest for Glory) team, for example. You would never know it now, but Hero’s Quest started out as a serious high fantasy game. There was no mention of humor or comedy in the original description. What changed? The team.

First came the art. Lori envisioned a beautiful medieval town in a pastoral forest setting. We got the forest, but the artist assigned to the town took Lori’s crayon and pastel sketches too literally, so Spielburg had a much more “cartoon” look than we intended. The characters also had simplistic, cartoon-like designs. Admittedly, it was hard to make them more realistic in 16 colors and relatively low resolution – 320 x 200 pixels on many displays.

While Lori and I debated how to handle this, programmer Bob Fischbach scripted the first prototype of a forest scene. Since our documentation didn’t say anything about how to handle incidental objects such as trees, Bob came up with several amusing messages including a few puns.

Yes, Bob wrote the first puns in Hero’s Quest; I just took the punishment and ran with it. After all, I went to school in Punsylvania, so it was a natural fit.

That solved our dilemma with the cartoony art style. Instead of trying to write a very serious game that would have been spoiled by the unrealistic backgrounds and characters, we redefined the game concept to be a tongue-in-cheek, humorous take on role-playing, but with a serious underlying story.

MagicStore.jpg


Does this Look like a Serious Game to You?

Not Just a Text Adventure
Other standouts on the Quest for Glory teams were our art directors – the late Kenn Nishiuye on Quest for Glory I and II, Andy Hoyos on game 3, Marc Hudgins on QG IV, and Terry Robinson on QG V. Each one directed the artists to create a different style, which in turn helped set the mood for each game.

Similarly, our composers created the vital soundscape for each game – Mark Seibert on QG1 and 2, Chris Braymen also on QG2, Rudy Helm on 3, Aubrey Hodges on 4, and of course Chance Thomas on QG 5.

Every game would have felt very different with a change in either the art style or music. We know this because we don’t really like our own games in development until the music comes in; they gain 2 or 3 levels of fun factor with the music.

Continuing the Legacy
Hero-U: Rogue to Redemption takes up where Quest for Glory left off, and that’s asking a lot. Our backers and the team expects beautiful background art and characters, smooth animation, text and dialogue responses for everything the player tries, and a delicate balance between silly and serious. We also knew from the beginning that Lori and I couldn’t do all that ourselves. We also know that good game design requires adaptation to the talents of the team working on the game.

As a result of team changes, as well as the development tools we are using, Hero-U has steadily evolved over the past five years. Our original concept was to make it a top-down Rogue-lite game with added story using Unity. Why that concept, and why Unity? The team, which started out with a lead programmer who had recently created a game in that style in Unity.

Why did we change? The team, particularly our first art director, who wanted more of a Sierra look with an isometric (theater stage) viewpoint. Then, as we added more experienced Unity programmers to the team, we learned that Unity works best with full 3D backgrounds, objects, and animation. We recreated most of the game scenes in full 3D.

That change also allowed more sophisticated animation, and required 3D characters, so we brought on more artists experienced with 3D tools, and programmers confident with using Unity. Pretty soon they started showing us how much better the game could look and feel with more “choreography” and active response to player actions.

Another programmer (Rob) created the Composer script editing tool for us. Originally, it was just a structured message editor, but that wasn’t enough for the new approaches our scripters were taking. Over time, other team programmers (especially Judy and Joshua) have added dozens of new features to Composer, to the point where it is starting to approach the sophistication of SCI at Sierra.

At each stage, the game grew, and the story grew along with it. Instead of the static “click on something, and one thing happens” approach used by other games, Lori, Josh, and I started adding variations and conditions everywhere.

For example, if you talk to the storekeeper during the day, you can get into a conversation about store goods, and not much more. Come back at night, or when one of your classmates is in the store, the conversation changes completely. Visit the library after studying lockpicking, and you’re likely to come across a book on the subject.

This has taken a lot more writing and careful planning and scripting, but we think the result is worthwhile. Hero-U is much closer to a “living, breathing” game than any game we’ve written previously.

Meet-Gregor.jpg


Meet Gregor the Shopkeeper
 

Boleskine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
4,045
Agreed, but at least the original pitch was for a top-down 2D game. Since the Coles didn't prepare enough going into kickstarter, they caved in to demands for "better graphics" from the backers in order to secure funding. Bad decision from the start.

The graphics are looking much better than from 2-3 years ago, but will 3D benefit the gameplay in any way? Had they stuck with 2D the Coles could have focused more efforts on writing and puzzles. The 3D environments we've seen look kind of barren, but that could be due to other characters or objects not being added yet.

In contrast I thought the 2D concept art was charming and atmospheric, being more evocative of the classic 2D era.

FlqU0Nb.jpg
 

MRY

Wormwood Studios
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5,703
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California
I think their description of what happened is quite a bit more plausible than the interpretation that they caved to outside pressure. Everyone knows the adage that to a man whose only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Put another way, a person with nails will be inclined to treat whatever tool he has like a hammer, and a person with screws will be inclined to treat whatever tool he has like a screwdriver. The project a craftsman envisions will be shaped by the tools and materials he has. What they're describing is a process in which the tools and materials shaped the project's vision, rather than a powerful vision at the outset dictating what tools and materials they bought. That is a kind of caving, but it's not a caving to the masses.

To me, the frustrating part is not that, having invested so much money in Unity, they backed their way into 3D, though of course Milkmaid of the Milky Way shows there's no reason why Unity would require a 3D adventure game. The frustrating thing is that at the project's start, they had the talent and prestige of the Coles and a big (if not huge) pile of money. If they had partnered with Daedelic or WEG or Infamous Quests or Crystal Shard or Himalaya Studios, it's nearly certain that they'd have had a beautiful, amazing QFG clone years ago, rather than a workaday in-progress Unity project. I still think there's a good chance that Hero-U will deliver something nice at the end of the line, maybe even something great, but still... To go back to the tool analogy, it's like as if in that scene when Butch escapes from Zed he looked over all the weapons and then settled on a spatula rather than a samurai sword. These guys could've had their pick of super talented people and purpose-built adventure game engines. Instead, they've given up so much of their lives and savings, and a good portion of their original vision, because they somewhat inexplicably picked the hardest tools for the job.
 

Boleskine

Arcane
Joined
Sep 12, 2013
Messages
4,045
The original pitch was for a top-down 2D game using the MacGuffin's Curse engine. Unity wasn't in the picture. This isn't a matter of "plausibility" - it's what happened. In that blog post Corey picks up the story after they scrapped the MacGuffin's Curse engine, a decision made sometime during the campaign or shortly after it ended. He's telling part of the story focusing on how the project has changed since they began working with Unity.

August 29, 2012 blog post
Corey and Lori Cole have assembled a star development team featuring Brawsome, developers of the award winning MacGuffin’s Curse and Jolly Rover.

First KS update
In particular, the 2D top-down image included in the video is a concept piece.

Original pitch - 2D top-down tile-based game using MacGuffin's Curse engine
1st evolution - Unity engine, 3D characters, 2D backgrounds
2nd evolution (after campaign finished) - full 3D environments in Unity

After the negative initial response to the kickstarter, Corey and Lori retooled the concept and adapted it to fit what the backers were complaining about - 2D graphics and what looked like a "casual" game design/presentation. They presented new concept art and made a new pitch video - the original video was removed. They hadn't committed to full 3D yet but they absolutely were making changes to address criticisms and appease existing or potential backers (understandable).

After switching to Unity, the original devs who worked on MacGuffin's Curse and Jolly Rover left Hero-U. They were recruited for a top-down tile-based 2D game, but once the game switched to a Unity-driven isometric design their services weren't applicable, and the terms of their contracts had changed. So the Coles needed new devs who use Unity.

Once you start down the Unity path, forever will it dominate your development.
 
Last edited:

twincast

Learned
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In My Safe Space
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232
Original pitch - 2D top-down tile-based game using MacGuffin's Curse engine
1st evolution - Unity engine, 3D characters, 2D backgrounds
2nd evolution (after campaign finished) - full 3D environments in Unity
Erm, nope. They never had a 3D characters on 2D backgrounds phase. At first floors and walls became 3D, then all new environmental objects, then the characters, then some old environmental objects.
 

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