Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

How 2K killed Irrational Games

Heretic

Cipher
Joined
Dec 1, 2015
Messages
844
Someone is angry and wants to get the word out

How 2K Killed Irrational Games — By Anonymous
I am a life long video game developer. I worked for Irrational Games before they were a part of 2K. I also worked for them during their time with 2K, and I even worked with them as they shut down the final reminiscence of what used to be Irrational Games. This is my story:

Before 2K Games’s involvement with Irrational Games, Irrational made titles such as Freedom Force, Tribes Vengeance, SWAT 4 and System Shock 2. These games were published through Sierra/EA/Vivendi on a standard independent studio milestone-based contract. The two studios (Boston and Canberra) were remarkably well managed and we were always paid on time. We had a great culture and we loved making great games. We also shared projects back and forth between the studios — Boston and Canberra both had very talented developers on their teams and they trusted one another by alternating lead project roles between the two studios.

In July 2005 (although made public in Jan 2006) Take-Two Interactive bought Irrational Games. Irrational had been shopped out to SEGA, Take-Two Interactive and a few other publishers. Irrational needed to move away from independence — money was getting too tight and the independent studio model was collapsing around the world at the time. 2K made the best offer and promised hands-off support for our titles — this meant they would provide us with the money and resources to run the Boston and Canberra studios to build a hit game (BioShock!), as well as provide marketing and publishing support. We were then left to our own devices to do what we do best — make kick-ass games. This proved to be the case for the first BioShock game. 2K kept mostly out of it. And we made them a boat-load of cash.

In August 2007 when BioShock was released: Irrational Games was renamed to 2K Boston and 2K Australia — a move by HQ to try and associate the 2K brand name with the pending Bioshock series. [2] We didn’t mind — they bought us — they could rename us — that was fair. While we were sad to say goodbye to the name Irrational, we were also proud to be a part of 2K Games.

BioShock — a joint venture between 2K Boston (lead studio) and 2K Australia (support studio) was released to world wide critical acclaim. The game did amazingly well and we were all very proud of what we did. We were one happy team back then and some of my best memories with 2K are from this time period. They, after all, had given us the money and the marketing to make this the success it was — we helped each other — and together we succeeded.

Shortly after BioShock was released, rumours arose that many of the staff who had worked on the game were leaving 2K Boston/Australia. In 2007, five members of the 2K Boston team moved to a new 2K Games studio in Novato, California.[3] Soon after, 2K Games announced the formation of 2K Marin in Novato.[4]

2K Marin’s first project was the PS3 port of BioShock. After the successful completion of this project (with the help of 2K Australia’s tech team), 2K Marin was given the green-light for BioShock 2. Again with the help of 2K Australia in a support role, 2K Marin created critically acclaimed BioShock 2 and very successful DLC such as Minerva’s Den.

In January 2010: Boston took control of its own destiny and renamed itself back to Irrational Games, although, 2K Australia was again renamed — and this time by HQ to “2K Marin, Australia”. HQ wanted to take power from 2K Australia and this was one of the ways they did it. The XCOM project was handed to 2K Marin and Australia was told to follow their lead. 2K HQ wanted to try their hand at game development — this was their chance.

“The Bureau: XCOM Declassified” absolutely tanked. In October 2013 after the release of the game, 2K Marin was blamed for the blunder and closed. 2K Australia was also going to be shut down at this time but Ken Levine saved the day — Australia even got their old “2K Australia” name back when they moved onto a BioShock Infinite support role at Ken Levine’s request.[5]

Unfortunately this still cost half the Australian studio — BioShock Infinite could simply not take all the employees. However, with the help of what was left of the 2K Australia studio — again in its position as a support role — BioShock Infinite went on to be yet another a critically acclaimed title.

On February 18, 2014 it was announced by Ken Levine via an open letter posted on the Irrational Games website that the vast majority of the studio would be laid off, with all but fifteen members of the staff losing their positions.[6]

Basically what had happened was that Ken had been pushed past his limits with the stress of running BioShock Infinite — the team was so huge and unwieldy that he wanted to go back to basics and build a game with a skeleton crew like in the old days. He basically tried to quit, but 2K said “no, don’t go, you can do whatever you want — just stay with us.” [7]

2K should have managed that situation better. If you have a big team who work well together in Boston, why not put a new studio head at the top and keep the team together? It could still be called Irrational — it would still have the majority of the original staff. Then Ken could go and do his thing, and everyone else could continue to do theirs — you know — making successful games for 2K…

But I digress… After BioShock Infinite, Boston was disbanded but 2K Australia picked up an exciting new project — The Borderlands Pre-Sequel. The Borderlands Pre-Sequel was developed with a skeleton team of 40 people at 2K Australia in just 18 months, and went on to sell 1.7 million units [8], plus significant DLC sales.

The reward for being profitable from HQ was subsequently closing the Australian studio down in April 2015, with the official reason being: “It is no longer economical for 2K to run game development operations in Australia”. [9] You mean no longer economical to run a team of 40 developers paid significantly less than their American counterparts, who just sold 1.7 million units after an 18 month production cycle? That makes precisely zero sense, but we were told not to worry about it “because we just don’t understand how the games business works.”

2K HQ was very keen on relocating staff to the more expensive Novato office to add to their 150+ person strong “Hanger 13” studio. Hanger 13 spent many years and many 10s of millions of dollars creating “Mafia III” which has recently tanked in reviews and has no hope of ever making its money back (it needs to sell ~8 million full price units to make up for its expenses, it has so far sold well under 1 million units).

It seems as though even CEO Strauss Zelnick can’t keep up with the studios opening and closing and changing names — In May 2014, Strauss stated that 2K Marin would be working on future BioShock titles.[10] Umm, what? 2K Marin had already been closed for over 6 months at that point! He must be confused — I don’t blame him for not keeping up considering the amount of shutting down, streamlining and renaming his little 2K headquarters has done.

Let’s just take a quick look at the titles we made here: Games worked on by 2K Boston/2K Marin/2K Australia (numbers from VGChartz.com):

BioShock — sold 5 million units
BioShock 2 — sold 4 million units
BioShock Infinite — sold 4.3 million units
The Bureau: XCOM Declassified — sold 0.5 million units
Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel — sold 1.7 million units

There is no doubt that in this list, “The Bureau: XCOM Declassified” is the black sheep — it did poorly and lost money. With that said, there are 4 games here that were hugely profitable — and every single studio responsible for these games no longer exists.

Instead the studios were dismantled, one way or another, by 2K. Is this really how a studio acquisition is supposed to go? Pay millions for a talented independent studio, let the people make you giant profits for a decade, and then shut all those people out of jobs before they get the chance to make you more money? Sounds like grave management incompetence to me.

By the way, does anyone know why XCOM tanked? I know — I was there: It is because out of the above titles, it is the only title where 2K HQ felt obliged to get their hands dirty with the development. They turned the product around several times for reboots, and completely took creative control out of the hands of the developers, even going so far as to change the name of the lead studio to “2K Marin, Australia” — just so the Australian studio knew they were no longer in charge.

Perhaps this is why Mafia III and Evolve also lost so much money. 2K HQ doesn’t seem to be afraid to try out their artistic streak — even if it costs the shareholders hundreds of millions of dollars, costs the jobs of hundreds of developers, and costs the reputation of 2K as an employer.

The only reason why 2K can be so incompetent and afford to make all of these mistakes is because they have studios like Firaxis (Civilization 6) and Visual Concepts (NBA 2K17) churning out gold for them year after year — without HQ interference. If 2K headquarters decided to stick their fingers into those pies, the publisher would be at serious risk of going entirely out of commission.

I know dozens of great engineers, artists and designers who will NEVER work for 2K again after essentially having their livelihoods destroyed by the company. 2K should do what they do best — stay in the business and marketing side of things. If they would keep their dirty mittens out of development and away from subsequently shutting down talented studios as a scapegoat for their leadership failures — they would be doing a lot better today.

From the original purchase date of Irrational Games in July 2005, it took less than 10 years for 2K to snuff out the final employees that made up what was Irrational Games. With over 15 million units sold and the invention of the new series that will live in the gaming hall of fame that is BioShock, one can only pose the question — how is this a sound management strategy — and why would a publisher do this?

Some people have asked me why I wrote this, and what do I stand to gain from writing such a piece. The truth is that Irrational Games was more than a job to most of us. It was our lives. Certainly at the time I dedicated myself to the company because I (perhaps naively) thought I was changing the world. Irrational Games had that power over people — we were talented, young, inspired and… Sure we were naive too.

But we didn’t give a damn, and we made games with out heart, mind and soul. It was a terrible thing to be broken apart, and something that one doesn’t just “get over” when they find a new job.

This letter is closure for me. I am now telling you I didn’t work for 2K. I worked for Irrational Games. 2K will never have me, or my friends back. They destroyed our livelihoods and they don’t get a second chance at doing that again.

Finally, you don’t get to publish your press release with your version of events for it all to be forgotten. This is a letter from a developer about what you did to us. This is a letter from Irrational Games.

Regards,
-Anonymous
 

Lyric Suite

Converting to Islam
Joined
Mar 23, 2006
Messages
56,554
I was going to say that nothing of value was lost, but as brain dead as they were, the Bioshock games weren't as bad as some of the shit that's out there, so this is just more decline.
 

SniperHF

Arcane
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Messages
1,110
I was going to say that nothing of value was lost, but as brain dead as they were, the Bioshock games weren't as bad as some of the shit that's out there, so this is just more decline.

Bioshock hype is a bigger offender than Bioshock itself, the games juvenile group-think induced caricatchered philosophies aside anyway.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,479
Location
Djibouti
We were then left to our own devices to do what we do best — make kick-ass games. This proved to be the case for the first BioShock game. 2K kept mostly out of it.

Yeah, somehow I doubt 2K was the one that "killed" Irrational Games :lol:
 

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,528
2K made the best offer and promised hands-off support for our titles — this meant they would provide us with the money and resources to run the Boston and Canberra studios to build a hit game (BioShock!), as well as provide marketing and publishing support. We were then left to our own devices to do what we do best — make kick-ass games.

Stopped reading there. Bioshock was made with full creative freedom, apparently. So they intended to feature objective markers, infinite ammo, zero-consequence revive stations around every corner, shit meaningless RPG systems, and general decline while somehow believing any of this was a good thing?

I went in expecting to read the whole thing, but I don't care for it after that.
 

CyberWhale

Arcane
Glory to Ukraine
Joined
Mar 26, 2013
Messages
6,073
Location
Fortress of Solitude
2K made the best offer and promised hands-off support for our titles — this meant they would provide us with the money and resources to run the Boston and Canberra studios to build a hit game (BioShock!), as well as provide marketing and publishing support. We were then left to our own devices to do what we do best — make kick-ass games.

Stopped reading there. Bioshock was made with full creative freedom, apparently. So they intended to feature objective markers, infinite ammo, zero-consequence revive stations around every corner, shit meaningless RPG systems, and general decline while somehow believing any of this was a good thing?

Decline is ever-present and inescapable - but just because someone is on their way downwards that doesn't mean we should pushed them down.

I went in expecting to read the whole thing, but I don't care for it after that.

Classical tale of corporate management having no clue in managing anything.
 

Unkillable Cat

LEST WE FORGET
Patron
Joined
May 13, 2009
Messages
27,215
Codex 2014 Make the Codex Great Again! Grab the Codex by the pussy
Stopped reading there. Bioshock was made with full creative freedom, apparently. So they intended to feature objective markers, infinite ammo, zero-consequence revive stations around every corner, shit meaningless RPG systems, and general decline while somehow believing any of this was a good thing?

You mean you never heard Ken Levine's infamous quote of "I want this game to be so easy my grandma could beat it!"?

Yes, Bioshock was purposefully designed that way.

As for this Anonymous in particular...(s)he is oblivious to how AAA gaming studios work. Or corporate/office politics, for that matter.

Switch out the studio names involved to "EA" and no one would bat an eye.

The song remains the same.

Let's say you're a small/medium-sized studio that has a few oddball, but notable games under your belt. If you're doing your own thing and keeping revenue numbers in the black, you're pretty much allowed to do as you wish.

But if you ever make a Big Title, or establish a franchise with a regular revenue stream, then watch as the Big Suits from Triple Eh come swooping in. If they can't buy you out, they'll sabotage your efforts somehow to force you out of business. "Submit or Die" are the only options.

So now you're a small/medium-sized studio under the heel of a Big Publisher. Any successes you make at this point will be credited to the publisher. Any failures you make will be placed firmly on your shoulders. And then you get shut down.

Because Big Publishers have this bizarre notion that once a gaming studio makes a Big Title, that's the only thing they'll ever be able to do from then on. That there's no going back. Those bridges you've been building to reach this point, to allow you to enjoy a successful title? Big Publishers will gleefully burn them all down as you watch. No exits allowed, no going back to what you were good at.

Worse than that, not only did you just screw yourself over by making a Big Title, but all the other studios under that same publisher will now also be expected to do Big like you. So you screwed yourself over AND work colleagues at other affiliated gaming studios.

Welcome to the gaming industry, and congratulations on one of your worst career choices ever.
 
Last edited:

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,528
CyberWhale said:
Decline is ever-present and inescapable - but just because someone is on their way downwards that doesn't mean we should pushed them down.

Please don't appeal to the human in me on a Bioshock topic.

Besides, these game devs will have scattered like cockroaches and ended up employed at the next decline game studio.

Unkillable Cat said:
You mean you never heard Ken Levine's infamous quote of "I want this game to be so easy my grandma could beat it!"?

I had not...it's not just that though. Simulation design, interactivity, interesting level design (note - art direction was interesting, level design in the traditional sense was shit). Heck, any form of interesting gameplay, as it did absolutely nothing new except decline. ...oh sorry, it gave you the option to kill little girls or not. So deep and meaningful!

Why are you forcing us to shoot splicers, hack machines, buy stuff, navigate rapture, fight bosses and such if none of it is engaging? That's what most of the game consists of for fuck sake. Just so you can tell your pretentious totally overrated story and show your (granted very pretty) art direction? Would you kindly fuck off and not waste my time or money.

they gave us System Shock 2 though so deep down I love them. That's a game that excelled in everything it did, so I have no reason not to despise Bioshock, especially given the impact of decline it had on the rest of the industry.
 
Last edited:

Azalin

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Mar 16, 2011
Messages
7,327
Hanger 13 spent many years and many 10s of millions of dollars creating “Mafia III” which has recently tanked in reviews and has no hope of ever making its money back (it needs to sell ~8 million full price units to make up for its expenses, it has so far sold well under 1 million units).

That's interesting,didn't know Mafia 3 cost that much
 

sullynathan

Arcane
Joined
Dec 22, 2015
Messages
6,473
Location
Not Europe
It isn't entirely bad that a developer wants their game to be accessible enough that an old woman, a child and a regular gamer can play, enjoy and beat it.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,443
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
BioShock was one of the first games known to have had its design radically altered due to input from (publisher-mandated) focus groups, so I think the guy is engaging in some rose-colored nostalgia.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
Meh, Irrational signed their death warrant as soon as they signed the deal with 2K. Besides, if everything was going well, why the sale for 2K anyway? The owners wanted to make alot of money and sell the sheep to the big bad publisher? His definition of a hit is really wrong too, Bioshock 1 was a hit based on his time but Bioshock Infinite was a flop based on publisher logic, 4.3 million sales for this big investment on huge teams is seen as underwhelming sales these days. Just look to the 8 million sales target Mafia 3 had and you would know what they wanted, unfortunately, all the bastardizations popamole and focus group features done on Bioshock Infinite didn't improve the sales much.

I just don't get how 2k hoped for 8 million sales on a story based GTA clone where the only "feature" is you controlling a black dude murdering white racist people. Borderlands The Pre-sequel was complete garbage too, managing being worse than Borderlands 2 while being a full price sequel, dunno how he is defending 2K Australia, that hellhole won't be missed.
 

Crooked Bee

(no longer) a wide-wandering bee
Patron
Joined
Jan 27, 2010
Messages
15,048
Location
In quarantine
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire MCA Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
I think the important point to note here is how this developer guy is only thinking in terms of critical success and sales. So when he says "creative freedom" or "kick-ass game," he's also measuring that in those terms. I assume focus groups and the like are basically implicitly included under the "publisher support" or "marketing support" etc. Essentially (to simplify his point a bit), if the publisher, with the help of focus groups, assisted them in making a hugely successful title, then that means they "supported," not inhibited, their creative freedom.

In fact, this piece is basically all about "our games sold well, why did you decide to close us down??" The actual quality of the game (from some sort of ideal design or gameplay standpoint) does not even factor in here. Which may be an important part of your average game developer's worldview in general.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,443
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Right. I don't think this guy really has anything new to add from his position as a former employee. He was clearly a low ranking one who didn't know much about what was really going on. But I agree with his overarching point that 2K's handling of the Irrational studios was bizarre. The story we were told about the Boston studio's closure never made any sense. Maybe someday we'll discover what really happened there.
 
Last edited:

Ash

Arcane
Joined
Oct 16, 2015
Messages
6,528
It isn't entirely bad that a developer wants their game to be accessible enough that an old woman, a child and a regular gamer can play, enjoy and beat it.

Old women do not play video games of their own volition. I'd be very surprised at an exception (but wouldn't rule it out), and don't point me to that old bint playing Grand Theft Auto on youtube and shouting profanities because that is not genuine, that is business to lure in the sheeple and cash in.
as for children, most of us grew up with these classics as the default and handled it just fine, even though they're meant to be mature games designed for adults.
Motherfucker, children's games were more mentally-stimulating than the so-called "mature" games of today.
 

pippin

Guest
Ken Levine killed Irrational by dragging Bioshock Infinite through development hell. What was supposed to be a milestone in gaming media is now barely remembered as a game which came out in 2013. I'd say people remember the first one more fondly than Infinite, I mean, even "normies" were calling out the dumbing down of the games.

Personally, the only thing I'd save from Bioshock as a whole is the art direction, but that happens with all games these days.
 

Severian Silk

Guest
Is there some sort of law of thermodynamics to explain this decline in gaming?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom