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How did Age of Decadence turn out?

Rake

Arcane
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Oct 11, 2012
Messages
2,969
I think it just goes to show most of gaming is filler. I think AOD basically cut out all the filler and so it's too easy to motorboat through all the content. If you don't take the time to smell the roses then it does go very quickly.

This is a great aspect of AoD; as I've gotten older, I've come to really hate filler/grinding/whatever. I have a very low tolerance for junk mobs and the like, so for me it's fantastic that AoD is 100% substance. The way that travel works in this game plays into that; you're either teleported as a result of dialogue, or you just bring up the map and click where you would like to go. You don't have to wander around the forest punching wolves until you reach your destination. Discovery is not a product of random exploration, like a person who looks at the ground as he walks and happens to see a shiny object; rather, you discover things through dialogue and choices, which opens up new pathways. Without getting into whether this is objectively better or worse, it suits me perfectly.
:salute:
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
There
Was
No
Power
Struggle
Thing
In
My
Game.
No
One
Mentioned
Any
Powers
Or
Struggles
Ever.

Discussion of who's smart or dumb aside, let's focus on the game; I don't think you're retarded just because you played AoD a certain way and didn't immediately fall in love with it. AoD is pretty unique, so it's unsurprising that if somebody picks it up without warning they'll run into issues. It's been a while since I played a loremaster and left Maadoran immediately after Antidas tells you to find the temple, so I decided to refresh my memory and see if the power struggle is mentioned; here's what I found:

The game indicates early on that House Daratan is a fallen power that can barely maintain its hold on the guilds.

Dellar tells you that House Aurelian is moving into a mine, and that they might want to attack Teron.

Depending on how you complete the House Aurelian mission, Dellar remarks that House Aurelian is competing with House Daratan.

When you complete the mine & bandit camp missions, Lord Antidas tells you that his dream is to rise above the petty power-struggles in Teron and rebuild the empire. He specifically says House Aurelian opposes his efforts and wants technology to be buried.

Anyway, that's not much information about the nature of the struggles, so I can appreciate where you're coming from. It must have seemed jarring to suddenly have the game give several pages of detail about power struggles in Teron that involved people you never met. That's one of the unique aspects of AoD, the world doesn't depend on you. What's the remedy? Make a new character and meet more people, or follow Feng's advice and speak with the guilds before leaving.

I think the problem you encountered could be solved, though, if Feng's dialogue is slightly adjusted. Right now, Feng automatically prompts you to go to Antidas and give him the fake ring, and then Antidas tells you to go to Maadoran and investigate the temple. Feng only tells you to apply to the guilds if you ask him certain questions. Therefore, if a player doesn't talk to Feng too much, he will go to Dellar and Antidas, and then Antidas will direct them to Maadoran; if they do as Antidas commands, then you will miss the struggles in Teron.

If Feng says something when he sends you to take the objects to House Daratan, this issue will be resolved. Feng could say something about how House Daratan loves trinkets, but that the fate of a loremaster isn't determined by the rise and fall of noble houses. Then, Feng could tell the player to become familiar with the guilds, too; that way the player is automatically prompted to do more than just talk to House Daratan and go to Maadoran. Perhaps Antidas could say something like "You go find the temple, and I will continue to defend my family name against the encroachments of House Aurelian and the guilds", indicating explicitly that Antidas is engaged in his own struggles and that he might not succeed.

Anyway, the issue only arises as a Loremaster, Grifter, and Drifter. Grifter and Drifters also have to specifically select a dialogue option to be told to go check out the guilds. This wouldn't happen as a Praetor, Assassin, Thief, Mercenary, Merchant, because people who follow those paths are automatically told to speak with factions that deeply embroil the player in the Teron power struggle.

Honestly, though, I don't even know if this should be changed at all. I mean, if you literally fail to ask your mentor about what work you can find, and then you do not explore the town at all, and then just immediately hop on the trail to Maadoran, then so be it. The game is meant to be replayed, anyway.




So, what makes it worth the replay? Here goes:

- Replays don't take forever; as pointed out above, AoD is focused on content. You go directly from point to point, choice to choice; trash mobs have been taken out, and there's little if any filler to waste your time clicking around. Put in 45 minutes as a mercenary and you'll have a totally new story in Teron that has little if any point of contact with your loremaster.

- Although it's a fictional world, it's also very much rooted in the real world. It's an eclectic mix of human history and philosophy, and it's all recognizable and surprisingly deep at times. For example, when I was playing for this post, I spoke to Feng and he said that in Zhin man is considered naturally evil but he can be made good through law and order. Zhin is presumably China (Qin), and Feng looks Chinese; that quote about humans being evil by nature but elevated by law sounds like the philosopher XunZi. Familiarity is precious and inviting, and it lets the older, less tolerant crowd accept the fiction and fantastic. Familiarity is why it's so easy to play the old classics, but I find it near impossible to pick up a recent game like D:OS and suffer through the new lore and fictional world.

- The world is deep, but multi-faceted. If you want to play as a loremaster and explore other-worldly mysteries, you can do that and avoid the politics and realities of human society. If you want to play as a political creature and lock away technology and the divine, you can do that, too. It's not a game where you have to start at one point, and reach a single conclusion, completing a narrow series of missions for a set faction.

For the above reasons, it's easy to replay, the replays are wildly different, and the world itself is easy to access and has enough depth that you will find it engrossing and genuinely want to learn more about it.


Possible typos/bugs:

When you pass the Charisma check, Antidas says his house name comes from the battle of Dar Attan. He says the emperor gave his house the name "Darattan", but everywhere else it's spelt "Daratan". Presumably Antidas should say that he got the name "Daratan" from the battle "Dar Attan", because "Darattan" does not appear anywhere else.

When you swear fealty to House Daratan and have a high reputation with Daratan, should you be able to tell the guards at the gate to let the travelling villagers in to Teron? Admittedly, you're not actually a Praetor, so if popularity with Daratan is not enough then I understand. When you play as a Praetor you can tell the guards to let them through if your House Daratan reputation is high enough.
 
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FUDU

Arcane
Joined
Jan 2, 2012
Messages
1,217
Location
COLD POTATO
Helton, are you the guy who's 15 years old like the rest of the codex but admits it?

Ad rem: no, AoD is not like Fallout or any other game for that matter. But maybe it will be better, we'll see on Thursday.


I have a feeling that VD and Helton are exactly the same age. EXACTLY!
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
What's the effect of charisma, other than passing charisma checks? It says that it affects people's reactions and impressions of the player, but how? Does a negative charisma reduce your speaking skills a certain amount? Like 5 charisma reduces 4 streetwise to 3 streetwise or something?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
It modifies your faction reputation but the reputation effects aren't fully done yet, so it's hard to see the difference. Also, it does reduce checks occasionally (like persuasion >=6 if cha < 7 or persuasion >= 5 if cha >= 7). Also, it saves your ass occasionally (for example, if mercato catches you cheating, he will attack if you're an ugly bastard, or give you a break if you're beaming with charisma). Azra also is more likely to let you walk away if you fuck up the conversation if you're charismatic. Also, it plays a huge role in the blind fight against the magus (high charisma will allow you to resist).

Basically, it does a lot of minor things here and there.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It modifies your faction reputation but the reputation effects aren't fully done yet, so it's hard to see the difference. Also, it does reduce checks occasionally (like persuasion >=6 if cha < 7 or persuasion >= 5 if cha >= 7). Also, it saves your ass occasionally (for example, if mercato catches you cheating, he will attack if you're an ugly bastard, or give you a break if you're beaming with charisma). Azra also is more likely to let you walk away if you fuck up the conversation if you're charismatic. Also, it plays a huge role in the blind fight against the magus (high charisma will allow you to resist).

Basically, it does a lot of minor things here and there.

Okay, glad to hear that, I thought the only loss was missing out on a few background conversations with people like esbenus. If it buffs your speech skills then it's really valuable.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I have another question: why were the shortcut keys for combat attacks removed? So often in this game, I want to use 2 different types of attack in one turn. In previous versions of this game, I could switch between the attacks by using keyboard shortcuts, but now it doesn't seem to work. Are there new shortcuts, or have they been removed? If they've been removed, please please put them back in. A simple 1 for fast, 2 for regular, 3 for power, 4 for aimed head, 5 for arterial strike, 6 for aimed torso, 7 for legs, 8 for arms, etc, would make life a lot easier. I hate having to constantly move the mouse down and fiddle with it every single turn.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
A bug:

If you take the violent path as a Thief, you will engage in 3 combats as you take the gold out of town. First against some peasants and one hammer man. Second with some guards. Third with the mercenaries.

On the second fight, a person drops a "centurion's cape". When you try to look at it in the inventory screen, there is no graphic, it's just an empty box. If you drag it, it's a big exclamation point. If you wear it, it's a yellow cape.
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
Developer
Joined
Jan 7, 2003
Messages
28,024
I have another question: why were the shortcut keys for combat attacks removed?
Technical issues (due to making significant changes in R4) we didn't have time to sort out yet.

If you take the violent path as a Thief, you will engage in 3 combats as you take the gold out of town. First against some peasants and one hammer man. Second with some guards. Third with the mercenaries.

On the second fight, a person drops a "centurion's cape". When you try to look at it in the inventory screen, there is no graphic, it's just an empty box. If you drag it, it's a big exclamation point. If you wear it, it's a yellow cape.
Thanks.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Another, similar bug:

Working for the thieves guild in Maadoran, go fight the seven or eight boatmen in the house. I had Aziz with me, as the other guy died in this playthrough when I left Teron. At any rate, one of the people drops a "hood", which again is missing a graphic.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Correction needed:

While you did change blocking so that it is determined by Constitution rather than Strength, you didn't update the text. If you mouse over the rating, the information box still says that Str is the controlling stat.
 

Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Also, even though it must be too late to suggest a character/dialogue (I was one of those early pre-orders who paid a little more), if you want to add some dialogue I think it would be good if you mentioned Xenophon's son Gryllus. Your game is obviously inspired by classical Greece/Rome (amongst several other things), and there's a bit in Xenophon's Hellenica where he mentions a battle his son fought and died in:

"The enemy whom they had to cope with far outnumbered them, as was plain to see, and the former misadventure of the cavalry in Corinth was not forgotten. (10) But none of these things entered into their calculations now — nor yet the fact that they were on the point of engaging Thebans and Thessalians, the finest cavalry in the world by all repute. The only thing they thought of was the shame and the dishonour, if, being there, they did not lend a helping hand to their allies. In this mood, so soon as they caught sight of the enemy, they fell with a crash upon him in passionate longing to recover the old ancestral glory. Nor did they fight in vain — the blows they struck enabled the Mantineans to recover all their property outside, but among those who dealt them died some brave heroes; brave heroes also, it is evident, were those whom they slew, since on either side the weapons wielded were not so short but that they could lunge at one another with effect. The dead bodies of their own men they refused to abandon; and there were some of the enemy’s slain whom they restored to him under a flag of truce."

If you're looking for a battle scene, some take on this quote would work, and would be a nice reference/tribute to Xenophon and his son, Gryllus.
 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
The worst part of this game is clicking the critical strike dialogue option, and then being reminded that your puny grifter doesn't actually possess a dagger.

Cassius wins again.

(seriously, though, grifter should start with a dagger, not a gladius)


Also, this game is a bad influence on people. When I first started, I always helped Cassius, because who in the world just randomly kills a guy in a pub because some old Chinese guy says so?

Nowadays? I can't remember the last game where Cassius didn't wind up in a pool of blood.

Plus, the sound effect is worth at least 50 gold.
 
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Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Possible bug, or oddity, or missing content?

Am I wrong in thinking that you MUST make Mercato join Antidas after Carrinas is assassinated, and the penalty for low skill is simply that you get waylaid by assassins when you go to Maadoran? This seems to be one of the few moments when you're given a false choice: you are told by Linos to decide whether to merge the IG with Antidas, or simply kill off the IG, but in reality the only possible option seems to be to make the IG join Antidas. Am I right in this conclusion?

If I am right, please make an alternate conclusion to Teron where you kill off IG and head to Maadoran. It just seems odd to argue with Antidas about killing off the IG, succeed the skill checks, but nonetheless be forced by Antidas to make IG join him. I mean, am I not a persuasion wizard?
 

Vault Dweller

Commissar, Red Star Studio
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Possible bug, or oddity, or missing content?

Am I wrong in thinking that you MUST make Mercato join Antidas after Carrinas is assassinated, and the penalty for low skill is simply that you get waylaid by assassins when you go to Maadoran? This seems to be one of the few moments when you're given a false choice: you are told by Linos to decide whether to merge the IG with Antidas, or simply kill off the IG, but in reality the only possible option seems to be to make the IG join Antidas. Am I right in this conclusion?

If I am right, please make an alternate conclusion to Teron where you kill off IG and head to Maadoran. It just seems odd to argue with Antidas about killing off the IG, succeed the skill checks, but nonetheless be forced by Antidas to make IG join him. I mean, am I not a persuasion wizard?
There are no false choices but there is a hidden check (as we never use a single skill to accomplish something).

Antidas tells you that the guards are no longer a threat, you tell him (persuasion) that they will become a threat once again if he allows them to regain their strength.

If you fail, he says that there is no glory or honor in massacring the survivors. Then you use streetwise to convince him to pin it on the assassins and leave behind a 'witness'.

If you pass the persuasion check, he says that the guards leave him no choice. If you enthusiastically agree, he gets angry, says that there is always a choice and refuses to be a slave to circumstances. Alternatively you use etiquette to assure him that he has plenty of choices and that he can do what lesser men can't, leading him a persuasion check convincing him that he can't miss this opportunity.

Basically, either persuasion/streetwise or persuasion/etiquette. Overall, it's a harder path than convincing Mercato to join but it opens up new possibilities down the road and adds another NPC (Brandir) to lead the Sellsword Legion (you can find him in Teron when you return). IF you decide that you need the legion, Brandir will be much easier to deal with than Mercato.

 

Agesilaus

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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Nice, I didn't know any of that. It seems there's always more content to discover. I read somewhere the Blacksmith's house in Teron can be burgled, but when I click on the door to his store (which I assume is also his house), it just says the door is locked. (EDIT: ahhhh, I figured it out!).

Also, another text update:

The explanation for the poison still says that the poison will be washed away by blood after 3 successful strikes. This is no longer true.
 
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Agesilaus

Antiquity Studio
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Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
No worries, I'm not purposely bug searching, just enjoying the game and making a note of issues as I go.

I'm going to go put any other issues in the actual bug thread, rather than clog this one up further.
 

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