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I just played Quake 2

In My Safe Space
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I wonder if these hits would be so non-serious if you wouldn't discover all the secrets. Or more precisely speaking wouldn't have pre-knowledge of all of these secrets.
 

DraQ

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I wonder if these hits would be so non-serious if you wouldn't discover all the secrets. Or more precisely speaking wouldn't have pre-knowledge of all of these secrets.
Lost Station secrets are actually very easy to find.
Most secrets in Q2 are just hard enough to provide just enough challenge to make finding them enjoyable.
Of course there are some well hidden ones, like the ones in palace or secret level in factory hub, but they are exceptions, rather than the rule - most just rely on looking in atypical directions, shooting atypical stuff, noticing cracks in the walls, and trying to reach nonsensical places (like the one leading to lost station) - they are fairly well designed secrets, but nothing a good explorer can't find.

Also, notice that I had to work up from your measly 30 something HP - it ate up a good part of health supplies on the level. The most HP I lost in singular encounter on this level was around 30 points of drowning damage due to being stupid and trying to instamince the fish with SSG, ignoring that they have small and a bit wonky hitboxes. The rest you can estimate from armour damage received - I picked up one jacket (I think) and a number of shards (can be counted).
 

Lord Rocket

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Whee let's all join the fun

http://www.mediafire.com/?lejntvyvm6y4z59

I deliberately avoided secrets, with the exception of the Adrenaline (I like to explore, sorry). This demo demonstrates how easy it is to tank through levels, as you can see for yourselves how badly I suck (taking lots of hits, missing easy shots etc.). I recorded this with the APRQ2 port, but hopefully it will still work in vanilla.

Anyone else want to join in? type cl_autorecord 1 at the console and load your game.
 

BLOBERT

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BROS I WOLD LIKE TO GET BACK TO THE CONTEST TO SEE HOW BIG OF A CUNT YOU CAN BE TO TRY TO PROVE YOURSELF RIGHT ON THE INTERNET I KNPW WE HAVE A WORLD CHAMPION HERE SOMETHWE I CAN FEEL IT
 

DraQ

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I wonder if these hits would be so non-serious if you wouldn't discover all the secrets.

Or more precisely speaking wouldn't have pre-knowledge of all of these secrets.
If I was relying on pre-knowledge, I wouldn't have shot barrels in the beginning (I assumed someone was near), as they would've helped me on my way back, and would have made a beeline to the adrenaline instead of scrounging up health (would've made it too, judging from damage I took). Also, I wouldn't backtrack all the time to previously unexplored locations.

Yes, some pre-knowldege is inevitable for someone who has played the game already and I admittedly have pretty good memory, but I was playing pretty derpily and Lost Station secrets are trivial to find.

As for the HP, I lost whopping 45HP and 24JA over the course of the entire level plus additional 53 and 18 when poking around for secrets and stuff (drowning damage, falling damage, some scratches from parasite and fishies, surprise shotgun to the face from respawned guards during backtrack). I only reclaimed around 24-34 from secrets themselves (could have reclaimed more - there were at least 3 +25 boxes left lying around) meaning that all the secret hunting has put me at NET LOSS OF AT LEAST 19HP, so not only would they still be not-so-serious - they would be far less serious.

I net gained somewhere around 15 points of jacket armour from exploration and +1 to max HP, admittedly.
 

BLOBERT

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BRO YOU SHOULD BOW OUT I SWEAR QUAKE 2 MUST HAVE MOLESTED YOU AS A KID YOU ARE REALLY ANHTY ABOUT IT
 

Lord Rocket

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Coolies.

Advice: practice shooting while strafing, you'll find that helps a lot (with other FPSes too). Also, you know your Lost Station save is in this thread if you want it back???
 
In My Safe Space
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Tried it. For some weird reason all my old saves become non-loadable after playing back a demo.
 

DraQ

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Loading demo overwrites "current" savegame. Clear your save directory and unpack the save again, otherwise you will have leftover files.

A few notes regarding your demo:

-practice shooting while strafing and, in particular, aiming while strafing. Enemies suck at hitting moving targets and it allows you inflict damage, seek cover, and make it impossible for enemies to surround you or even make them block each other all at the same time.

-pay more attention to your environments, you missed two quite worthwhile secrets while looking straight at them, in particular, pay attention to ceilings and underwater areas - they are good places to hide secrets, because players tend to not look up at the former and avoid the latter due to limited air supply.
you also seemed to miss a whole row of stimpaks.

-your mowing down guards with puny little blaster was apparently so demoralizing one of them started shooting backwards :) nice job!

-enemies that shoot while dying do it in particular direction, instead of desperately trying to gib a dying foe, which effectively pins you in place, just move out of their forward firing arc (in case of enforcers don't stand immediately behind them either, even a step or two away is fine, though). It will allow you to be far more flexible in combat. You can also learn death anims, only one enforcer anim and one guard anim have death spray and they are quite distinct.
For bonus points you can try to make one enemy wander into a death spray like another.

-keep track of solid geometry you can hide behind - you got riddled with holes in the last area, you could have avoided it entirely. Don't be afraid to run away and hide behind something for a few seconds while enemy fires or between your own firing cycles.

-keep track of where are your enemies and what are they doing - why run out of the door straight at spraying enforcer when you can wait a second or two and do it without getting a facefull of bullets?

-do not hesitate - either keep firing at maximum RoF and try to stunlock/kill the target before it can do anything, charge, then deliver full payload from SG/SSG or shoot and vanish behind cover.

-try taking out unaware enemies whenever possible - 2x damage.

-toy with enemies and use levels to your advanage, if an enemy has seen you approaching from one direction, attack him from another using alternative route, then vanish or finish him before he turns around. Be a fucking predator and ninja rolled into one.

-you seem to have this one figured out, but with all projectile (non-hitscan) weapons, possibly except GL which is situational, shoot them in the ankles. There is no locational damage in Q2 so an ankle shot will hurt them just as much as a headshot and it can't be dodged by ducking and haxxing your hitbox.

-if you have problems with health management, delay taking adrenaline until you're badly shot-up and try to heal fully with boxes or adrenaline before grabbing stimpaks. Don't take armour shards if you can hope for better amour than you have.

Other than the last area (with the exception of killing enforcer with blaster - that was nice and pretty efficient), your performance was good. Then you started to try and catch bullets with your teeth. Bwuh?

http://www.filefactory.com/file/c434ebe/n/enf_popamole_dm2 <- here's how you can popamole enforcers at the end of Outer Base without taking much, possibly any, damage (short demo).
 

CreamyBlood

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Good job Draq, a fun walkthrough, I had sound too. Unfortunately I couldn't load that save14 to try it out myself as I keep getting that dreaded 'function pointers have moved' error when I go up the elevator at the begininng. I could have sworn I solved this a few months ago but it seems to be back and I'm too tired to deal with it.

But tell me, did you have fun doing that run-through or were you bored out of your skull?
 

DraQ

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Good job Draq, a fun walkthrough, I had sound too. Unfortunately I couldn't load that save14 to try it out myself as I keep getting that dreaded 'function pointers have moved' error when I go up the elevator at the begininng. I could have sworn I solved this a few months ago but it seems to be back and I'm too tired to deal with it.

But tell me, did you have fun doing that run-through or were you bored out of your skull?
Well, I actually had more fun doing the second, short demo, as it was a bit challenging to do it completely perfectly, without taking even single stray bullet.
The Lost Station run-through wasn't long enough to bore me (Q2 is not Oblivion, after all), plus I had additional incentive in form of both proving my point and helping a bro.

I don't deny you can have certain kind of fun in Q2, but the fact is that the environments are bland, enemies and that gameplay is completely devoid of challenge, unless you count self-imposed challenges, so any fun you have is not too different from modern popamoles with "I WIN" button, which isn't too monocled.
Pretty much all the fun you can derive from Q2 is blowing holes in retarded tincans and watching their agony - not monocled at all.
 
In My Safe Space
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Thanks for advice, DraQ.

Other than the last area (with the exception of killing enforcer with blaster - that was nice and pretty efficient), your performance was good. Then you started to try and catch bullets with your teeth. Bwuh?
Nerves.
 

DraQ

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Thanks for advice, DraQ.

Other than the last area (with the exception of killing enforcer with blaster - that was nice and pretty efficient), your performance was good. Then you started to try and catch bullets with your teeth. Bwuh?
Nerves.
No prob, and sorry if I reduce your enjoyment, but Q2 gameplay is more smoke and mirrors than it is typical in an FPS.
As for the nerves, stay cool, most enemies won't hit you unless you actively let them. SG/MG guards and parasites can, but they are relatively low level threats, guards are best dealt with using MG (unless alone, then shotgun is perfect), parasite can be stunlocked by any heavy-hitter. Others fire hitscan with aiming lag and lengthy pre-shot delay, fire projectiles without leading the target (typically some delay is also present), or engage in melee (also with delay). You can avoid, prevent or dodge most of the attacks if you stay calm, by breaking LoS, keeping moving or inflicting damage respectively.
If an attack hits, you can usually cut your loses by not panicking and reacting fast - you usually have some armour, from jail onwards, also a power shield. With good armour and shield you will hardly even take health damage when hit by hitscanners.

Also, see the demo I've uploaded - it should provide you with practical examples of effective techniques.
Pretty much all the fun you can derive from Q2 is blowing holes in retarded tincans and watching their agony - not monocled at all.

previously on DraQ said:
tomes of encyclopedic knowledge on Q2 mechanics and secrets

The lady doth protest too much
You've never argued with an asspie before, no?

I also have tons of encyclopaedic knowledge about oblivious despite never even completing the game and considering it an epitome of suck. Q2 isn't nearly as bad and I've completed it back when it was new and again recently to see if my memories of it are faulty.

I also have internet sources to assist me when it comes to mechanical details, and some stuff is easy to test empirically.

Be a man and stop trying to divert the flow of discussion from the subject to your opponent.
Do you think I can't see that?
 

shihonage

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I understand the aspie mindset quite well. Feeling confused and overwhelmed by fluid nature of many events and social interactions, you find safety in patterns, and it's easier for you to take a rigid, clear-cut position on the subject, even if it doesn't really fit your actions anymore.

First, with consistency of a dripping faucet, you vigorously poop on anyone who says anything positive about the game, and then you proceed to "constructively participate" in this Quake 2 thread (playing it, giving tips to other players) like nothing happened.

You're trying to have the cake and eat it too.

Now you feel unsettled by a dissonance between your words and actions, but you're too rigid to change your "official position". You made a nest around that position. It is safe.

I understand.
 

DraQ

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I understand the aspie mindset quite well. Feeling confused and overwhelmed by fluid nature of many events and social interactions, you find safety in patterns, and it's easier for you to take a rigid, clear-cut position on the subject, even if it doesn't really fit your actions anymore.
Cute.

Is it better or worse than just constantly parroting that Q2 has good gameplay even after being shown that it does not?

First, with consistency of a dripping faucet, you vigorously poop on anyone who says anything positive about the game, and then you proceed to "constructively participate" in this Quake 2 thread (playing it, giving tips to other players) like nothing happened.
So, should I just run around the thread calling Awor a faggot for getting PWND by retarded AI in bland, semiretarded game and you a retard for praising such a game?

Maybe I should, but I just don't feel like it.

Also, Q2 is not oblivion, it's not painful, you can definitely have your share of fun playing it, at least until you notice how impotent and unchallenging are your enemies - this drags the enjoyment down a bit as you realize that you're not winning your battles because you're so awesome, but because enemies are so fucking retarded that those battles are not actual battles, but series of executions.

I'm also having genuine fun with Q2 in this thread, far more than I would have playing it. I'm dismantling it, toying with it and seeing in how many ways it's broken. I'm also curious whether Awor's opinion about Q2 changes after I help him learn to PWN the shit in this game, this is.

Finally, I'm interested in what makes you, and all the other Q2 apologists tick. In how can one turn a blind eye towards the fact that gameplay design and dynamics is completely different and vastly inferior in Q2 when compared to virtually any classic FPS, while also different and vastly inferior to modern ones. In how does one consider it a classic despite this fact.
 

praetor

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Also, Q2 is not oblivion, it's not painful, you can definitely have your share of fun playing it, at least until you notice how impotent and unchallenging are your enemies - this drags the enjoyment down a bit as you realize that you're not winning your battles because you're so awesome, but because enemies are so fucking retarded that those battles are not actual battles, but series of executions.

and how's that different from any other single-player FPS in existence? they all have pathetic AI that is easily predicted and countered, from Doom to Unreal, from Half-life to Quake, from Halo to Call of Duty if the AI provides you with any kind of challenge, you're a fucking moron

we get it, you don't find the Q2 cyborgs menacing or whatever, unlike the garish, colourful, fabulous predator rip-offs in Unreal. makes sense :codexisfor:
 

Lord Rocket

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I don't care. I enjoyed watching the demos in this thread (and making mine) and I'd like to see more.

PS. it's more fun than arguing with DraQ.
 

DraQ

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and how's that different from any other single-player FPS in existence? they all have pathetic AI that is easily predicted and countered, from Doom to Unreal, from Half-life to Quake, from Halo to Call of Duty if the AI provides you with any kind of challenge, you're a fucking moron
There are other ways to challenge player even with derpy AI - if you disagree, provide me with a demo of you ironmanning Blood on Extra Crispy. I'll wait.

BTW I'm perfectly ready to ironman Q2 on hard as soon as I find the time, with extra restrictions of not using powershield, quad and only using invulnerability for lava/nukage swimming, waiting for it to wear off before willingly entering combat.

The thing with Q2 is that it provides no challenge of any sort unlike pretty much every other FPS.
 

Gondolin

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Searched YouTube for a Blood LP on Extra Crispy. Found this.



God damn, that guy is handy with a pitchfork.
 

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