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Inspirations for weaponry?

Radech

Augur
Joined
Sep 1, 2007
Messages
505
roshan said:
Thats likely just a myth. High carbon damascus steel (not just regular steel) was invented in Southern India a few hundred years before Christ. It took the world a couple of millenia to invent stronger steel.

yeah it also sounded a bit wierd to me, Europeans weren't really big on inventions after the fall of the roman empire - then he was just a skilled blacksmith of the time(like prada, didn't invent the bag just threw his name on it and bumped up the price :P)
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Marsal said:
Is it me or are the hilts very short compared to the length of the blade? It looks like 10:1 (or more) ratio in some of them. I would need about 15 cm to comfortably hold a weapon and I guess the blade can't be longer than 100 cm. Looks like Indian people have very small hands. Enlighten me, please ;)

It has to do with the local style of swordsmanship - most techniques require the wrist to be locked in place, hence the small hilts.
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
roshan said:
Marsal said:
Is it me or are the hilts very short compared to the length of the blade? It looks like 10:1 (or more) ratio in some of them. I would need about 15 cm to comfortably hold a weapon and I guess the blade can't be longer than 100 cm. Looks like Indian people have very small hands. Enlighten me, please ;)

It has to do with the local style of swordsmanship - most techniques require the wrist to be locked in place, hence the small hilts.
Hm, I don't quite understand. How long is the hilt? How do you hold it? How can a wrist be "locked in place"? Maybe an illustration for the stupid? :)

I don't have any experience with swords, but I would grab it like a stick, forming a fist around the hilt. And I can't do that with a hilt less than 15 cm long.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Marsal said:
roshan said:
Marsal said:
Is it me or are the hilts very short compared to the length of the blade? It looks like 10:1 (or more) ratio in some of them. I would need about 15 cm to comfortably hold a weapon and I guess the blade can't be longer than 100 cm. Looks like Indian people have very small hands. Enlighten me, please ;)

It has to do with the local style of swordsmanship - most techniques require the wrist to be locked in place, hence the small hilts.
Hm, I don't quite understand. How long is the hilt? How do you hold it? How can a wrist be "locked in place"? Maybe an illustration for the stupid? :)

I don't have any experience with swords, but I would grab it like a stick, forming a fist around the hilt. And I can't do that with a hilt less than 15 cm long.

Indian hilts were meant to fit the palm of the hand exactly, in order to minimize movement. So if someone had a palm 15 centimeters (6 inches) across from the pointer to the pinky, then only would the hilt be that long.

Id post some videos of Indian swordsmanship, but cant access any of my bookmarks since most of them are blocked by my college ISP.
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
465
Location
Mersin
Unlike the wide persian bows, turkish bows are shorter in order to be fired from horseback. Also the arms are curled backwards when the bowstring is not attached, thus setting the bow up requires a lot of skill.

e25717.jpg
e1412.jpg
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
roshan said:
Indian hilts were meant to fit the palm of the hand exactly, in order to minimize movement. So if someone had a palm 15 centimeters (6 inches) across from the pointer to the pinky, then only would the hilt be that long.

Id post some videos of Indian swordsmanship, but cant access any of my bookmarks since most of them are blocked by my college ISP.
No need. I understand. I find it highly impractical in several ways, but what do I know.

Indians are a peace loving people (I know, I played Civ4! ;)), what do they know about war? That's why those weapons are so funny looking. Theoretically they should work, but no one has actually used them :D

I want some Japanese and Chinese weapons. Lets see something other than katanas. And armor, too. That would be nifty.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Marsal said:
roshan said:
Indian hilts were meant to fit the palm of the hand exactly, in order to minimize movement. So if someone had a palm 15 centimeters (6 inches) across from the pointer to the pinky, then only would the hilt be that long.

Id post some videos of Indian swordsmanship, but cant access any of my bookmarks since most of them are blocked by my college ISP.
No need. I understand. I find it highly impractical in several ways, but what do I know.

Indians are a peace loving people (I know, I played Civ4! ;)), what do they know about war? That's why those weapons are so funny looking. Theoretically they should work, but no one has actually used them :D

I want some Japanese and Chinese weapons. Lets see something other than katanas. And armor, too. That would be nifty.

Well other than the tribal weapons I posted, Indian weapons were very practical and suited for Oriental styles of armor.

Actually throughout history, India has been split into numerous warring states. Indians not only develioped the strongest steel, but also developed the worlds first organized martial arts - which were spread to Tibet and later on China by Buddhist monks. In medieval India, there were even sects of "warrior ascetics" who viewed combat as a spiritual activity. Traditionally weapons were venerated as sacred objects, and the Bhagavad Gita, the primary spiritual text of Hinduism is set in the backdrop of justifying war. :)

However, British colonization put an end to most of the countries martial heritage. Gandhi's ideas of peace and nonviolence were actually ripped off from the Bible (and Buddhism/Jainism), not from Hindu philosophy.

Check out this suit of elephant armor:

elephant147110xf5.jpg


Cannons were often mounted on elephants, and sometimes the tusks were replaced with something a little more vicious:

elephanttusksay0.jpg
 

MisterStone

Arcane
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
9,422
Hey Rosh,

I was wondering about the Chakhram; were they really very useful, or were they kept around mainly for ceremonial/sporting purposes? I just can't figure out how they could be very practical as a battlefield weapon- how would you carry one with you and handle it without cutting yourself? Also, it seems like a plain old javelin or throwing axe would be a better use of the metal.

Anyway, its a design that seems kind of cool at first, but on further reflection kind of dubious.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
MisterStone said:
Hey Rosh,

I was wondering about the Chakhram; were they really very useful, or were they kept around mainly for ceremonial/sporting purposes? I just can't figure out how they could be very practical as a battlefield weapon- how would you carry one with you and handle it without cutting yourself? Also, it seems like a plain old javelin or throwing axe would be a better use of the metal.

Anyway, its a design that seems kind of cool at first, but on further reflection kind of dubious.

Yes, it was not actually a battlefield weapon. It has more of a religious significance - in Hinduism, it is the sacred weapon of the god Vishnu. Its also a part of the Sikh martial art Gatka.
 

Ahzaruuk

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 15, 2006
Messages
1,184
Location
Just a city called Sirius.
MisterStone said:
Hey Rosh,
I just can't figure out how they could be very practical as a battlefield weapon- how would you carry one with you and handle it without cutting yourself?
I vaguely remember seeing an illustration of a person using a chakhram-It was very small and he basically was spinning it around his finger.
 

Marsal

Arcane
Joined
Oct 2, 2006
Messages
1,304
I like your elephant. So British saved you from yourselves and denied you some glorious wars? Bastards! ;)

Can we have elephant mounts, VD? You can sell elephant armor AND tusk accessories/upgrades as downloadable content! Brilliant idea, if I may say so.

Doesn't Xena use a chakhram? Not a battlefield weapon? Nonsense :)
 

axedice

Cipher
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
Messages
465
Location
Mersin
roshan said:
SuicideBunny said:
roshan said:
An Ottoman double sword:
how the hell is that supposed to be used?

I have no idea . :D Better ask Axedice.
I was going to ask you the same, never seen something like that :P But since it's a double hander, it was probably used against lines of pikeman. The forked structure enables the wielder to lock or disarm the opponents weapon. Here's another example : Zulfikar Sword

e1081.jpg


The broad and curved bladed Turkish swords that Roshan linked are called Pala. Here is a Yatagan, standart issue for Janissaries.

picture1.jpg


Intresting Russian design, resembling Yatagan.

yatagan_lev.jpg
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Marsal said:
I like your elephant. So British saved you from yourselves and denied you some glorious wars? Bastards! ;)

Thing is, in traditional Hindu kingdoms, it was considered completely unethical to involve civilians in warfare - war was conducted exclusively by the warrior caste. Greek travellers to ancient India such as Megasthenes noted that villagers would calmly tend to their fields while armies laid waste to each other in plain sight. The British on the other hand were very brutal, to say the least.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
axedice said:
roshan said:
SuicideBunny said:
roshan said:
An Ottoman double sword:
how the hell is that supposed to be used?

I have no idea . :D Better ask Axedice.
I was going to ask you the same, never seen something like that :P But since it's a double hander, it was probably used against lines of pikeman. The forked structure enables the wielder to lock or disarm the opponents weapon. Here's another example : Zulfikar Sword

e1081.jpg


The broad and curved bladed Turkish swords that Roshan linked are called Pala. Here is a Yatagan, standart issue for Janissaries.

picture1.jpg


Intresting Russian design, resembling Yatagan.

yatagan_lev.jpg

Russian arms and armour until the nation was westernized were actually virtually identical to oriental (Indian, Persian, Turkish) arms and armour. The basic Indian saber is called a "Talwar" which tends to be thicker and less curved than the lighter "Shamshir" blades. Here are examples of talwars with zulfikar tips:

zulfikartulwarhv9.jpg


ewtulzulf2jg5.jpg
 

BigDummy

Novice
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
5
Codex Synchronicity

Hi, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Jean Henri Chandler. I just found this forum by accident looking for photos of Sosun Pata. I have no idea what this forum is but I feel a bit of synchronicity going on here.

I am a game designer of a combat system called the Codex Martialis. It's meant to be historically based martial arts combat rules for 3.5 DnD, it's really a new system nominally compatible with OGL 3.5. It's been out for about a year and so far gotten all positive reviews.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... s_id=58045

I also did some writing for The Riddle Of Steel and for a game from a UK company called The Dying Earth. I can't make out if this forum is about a specific computer game or tabletop RPG or generally CRPGs or RPGs or all of the above. Or something totally different.

But I see people here are into real historical weapons and that means we are fellow travellers to some extent. Threre is also the odd coincidence of the name codex. I used 'codex' for my PDF because it's largely based on old fencing manauls of Rennaisance European Martial Arts, some with names like Codex Wallerstien etc.

I definetely love to talk about historical combat, weapons and armor, and people from History. This is a sort of a blog I've had for a while on ENworld, quite similar to the conversation going on in this thread.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp ... -rpgs.html

I am interested in Martial Arts from all over the world and have a particular fascination for the Sikhs and many South Asian MA systems which I am only starting to learn a little about. I'd like to include more South Asian MA in my Combat rules, we have recently had help from Filipino Martial Arts enthusiasts who helped us add some FMA rules.

So can someone here explain to me what this forum actually is about?

BD
 

Redlands

Arcane
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
983
Re: Codex Synchronicity

BigDummy said:
Hi, I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Jean Henri Chandler. I just found this forum by accident looking for photos of Sosun Pata. I have no idea what this forum is but I feel a bit of synchronicity going on here.

I am a game designer of a combat system called the Codex Martialis. It's meant to be historically based martial arts combat rules for 3.5 DnD, it's really a new system nominally compatible with OGL 3.5. It's been out for about a year and so far gotten all positive reviews.

http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_i ... s_id=58045

I also did some writing for The Riddle Of Steel and for a game from a UK company called The Dying Earth. I can't make out if this forum is about a specific computer game or tabletop RPG or generally CRPGs or RPGs or all of the above. Or something totally different.

But I see people here are into real historical weapons and that means we are fellow travellers to some extent. Threre is also the odd coincidence of the name codex. I used 'codex' for my PDF because it's largely based on old fencing manauls of Rennaisance European Martial Arts, some with names like Codex Wallerstien etc.

I definetely love to talk about historical combat, weapons and armor, and people from History. This is a sort of a blog I've had for a while on ENworld, quite similar to the conversation going on in this thread.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rp ... -rpgs.html

I am interested in Martial Arts from all over the world and have a particular fascination for the Sikhs and many South Asian MA systems which I am only starting to learn a little about. I'd like to include more South Asian MA in my Combat rules, we have recently had help from Filipino Martial Arts enthusiasts who helped us add some FMA rules.

So can someone here explain to me what this forum actually is about?

BD

Scottish Martial Arts, or it has been lately...
 

skyway

Educated
Joined
May 29, 2009
Messages
258
PM Andahaira, he is our martial arts expert (katanas and stuff). Maybe Cleve too.
 

Fezzik

Cipher
Joined
Nov 2, 2008
Messages
515
BigDummy said:
So can someone here explain to me what this forum actually is about?

The RPG codex itself is devoted to CRPGs and to an extent strategy and adventure games: Fallout, Wizardry, Arcanum, Jagged Alliance 2, Monkey Island, etc. It's a good source for news about RPGs and there tends to be a good mix of intelligence, humor, and stupidity in the discussions (plus a lot of bitching). Also, there's a "no spam, no ban" policy here, so if you choose to hang around, know that a lot of people here don't check themselves (well . . . it's the internet, so I guess that goes without saying).

This particular subforum is for the game Age of Decadence. You can check out their main forums here -- there are fora for three CRPGs currently in development. That site isn't as busy as the Codex, but it has some very interesting discussions as well.

I hope this was helpful.
 

Jasede

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Messages
24,793
Insert Title Here RPG Wokedex Codex Year of the Donut I'm very into cock and ball torture
Actually, RPG Codex is about discussing transsexuals and the decline of civilization.

Edit Oh snap, Redlands wins the internet.
 

Haba

Harbinger of Decline
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Codex 2012 MCA Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
I found the ideal woman for you guys!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wJHnn2Z_g2w

Otherwise, attempts to find videos of people actually throwing a chakram have proven to be fruitless.

When it comes to those 'exotic' weapons, it would actually be interesting to hear your thoughts on how to actually implement their unique aspects in a game.

Lets say we pit a Philippino Kampilan

179-rz3N.jpg


versus a Panabas

174-jca12.jpg


Do we just say that one can do slashing and piercing damage, while other only slashing and uses axe skill?
 

BigDummy

Novice
Joined
Jul 13, 2009
Messages
5
Fezzik said:
BigDummy said:
So can someone here explain to me what this forum actually is about?

The RPG codex itself is devoted to CRPGs and to an extent strategy and adventure games: Fallout, Wizardry, Arcanum, Jagged Alliance 2, Monkey Island, etc. It's a good source for news about RPGs and there tends to be a good mix of intelligence, humor, and stupidity in the discussions (plus a lot of bitching). Also, there's a "no spam, no ban" policy here, so if you choose to hang around, know that a lot of people here don't check themselves (well . . . it's the internet, so I guess that goes without saying).

This particular subforum is for the game Age of Decadence. You can check out their main forums here -- there are fora for three CRPGs currently in development. That site isn't as busy as the Codex, but it has some very interesting discussions as well.

I hope this was helpful.

Yes it is, thanks. I probably came across as the interwebs biggest newbie, I don't tread into the realm of CRPG's too often, I thought the only game out there which had a fanbase interested in real Historical weapon setc. was Mount and Blade.

I'm a software developer myself though and I do dabble a litle bit with my own games, pretty much just for my own amusement.

I hope I didn't violate your spam policy by posting a link to my book. Like I said I am interested in pre-industrial weapons, armor, and martial arts so I think I'll feel the place out a little maybe I'll glean some good ideas here. Thanks for the explanation / introduction.

BD
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
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Messages
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Location
Djibouti
BigDummy said:
I hope I didn't violate your spam policy by posting a link to my book.

We have a spam policy?
 

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