Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Invisible Inc.

Mozg

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
Not trolling. I'm literally asking if shit besides being able to easily fill the meters and keep a fire going at night matters. Just you saying that "winter" exists at least tells me there may be some kind of game there. I was thinking it might be minecraft with some trivial survival mechanics on the side.

I won't DS up the II thread further tho
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
I wanted to like Don't Starve (still played quite a few hours) but, in the end, it felt overly tedious more so than challenging.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,823
This has a cute art style and all, but I'm not a fan of time-pressure induced difficulty and that's the only kind of difficulty that exists in this thing. Roguey verdict: meh, not my thing, liked Ninja Mark far more.
 

Roguey

Codex Staff
Staff Member
Sawyerite
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
35,823
If you dislike the time pressure of the alarm system, you can set your campaign to only raise alarm level if you get detected. This works well with the highest difficulty setting, where you don't get AI assistance at spotting camera vision. The game is flexible enough to accommodate this sort of pure stealth playstyle. Like how you can disable winter in Don't Starve if you really wanted to just grasshopper around instead of being an ant.

I did, this removed challenge. :M I didn't disable "show danger zones" though since that results in too much guesswork for my tastes.
 
Self-Ejected

Ludo Lense

Self-Ejected
Joined
Nov 28, 2014
Messages
936
This has a cute art style and all, but I'm not a fan of time-pressure induced difficulty and that's the only kind of difficulty that exists in this thing. Roguey verdict: meh, not my thing, liked Ninja Mark far more.

Not sure how legitimate "time-pressure" is in a turn-based situation. It is more along the lines of each action being a resource in its own right. Like chess puzzles that say something like this "Checkmate the King with the Rook in 3 turns". Obviously Invisible Inc. is more "natural" in its approach with the alarm system which gives a large gradient to the good and bad actions that can happen.
 

IHaveHugeNick

Arcane
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
1,870,182
Invisible Inc is just about what I came to expect from Krei. Highly polished, tightly designed, solid package of a game that you can beat over one weekend. It won't develop a cult status or win any awards, but I'd be hard pressed to find anything to complain about.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
5,933
Location
Scotland
I was on my fourth or fifth mission and was fleeing a 5-alarm rating with my prize from the secure safe, and all my other agents escaped while I tried to sneak blond woman to the exit with the extremely good item, and I was nearly there and I didn't realise what guards do when they're actively hunting you, so I stood in front of a door to ambush him and he knocked it down on my head, brained me and immediately ended the mission, losing both agent and items and reward :negative:

I think I can pinpoint that as the moment things started to go a bit wrong in my first run.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,489
Location
Djibouti
Three last missions, three times I get Blowfish 2.0 at start (aka instant +10 alarm). I swear this is starting to become annoying.

However, I found out by accidents that hacked drones lose their passive + armour bonus, which means I can just kill all akuma drones with a handcannon if I carry around enough buster chips and emps (which I do). Suddenly, Keikaku missions have turned considerably more manageable.

But still, fuck, and I mean FUCK K&O. Harro, here's an armour 8 (base, not a shield with 8 firewalls) guard. Have fun, bro! I'm never going up against those motherfuckers again.
 
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
5,933
Location
Scotland
huh, beat the final mission first time with no casualties. On Experienced with no equipment better than stun rod things and a couple of cloaks, so I was expecting to have a bad time. Guess I got lucky! Good game.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,424
Not to be that guy, but "a couple of cloaks" is actually pretty good. Especially since the most challenging part about the last mission is to take monster and central from point A to point B without buying it.
 

Spectacle

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 25, 2006
Messages
8,363
Good game, but often let down by the RNG refusing to let you find any useful equipment. I guess some people enjoy trying to make due with nothing at all, but to me it gets frustrating when I have agents running around unable to do much other than open doors. IMHO basic gear like stunners and ammo should always be available to buy, at least as a game option.
 

spectre

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Messages
5,424
If you are talking about monster's shop, I agree that he could use a tweak. Most often he doesn't have anything worthwhile at all
and I only ever remember buying cybernetics from him when I got lucky.

As for the avaialbility of basic commodities, I've had this happen to me during my archived.banks + monster runs - you get very limited zapping ability,
and it's a pain until you get your first neural disrupter. However, it's an obvious handicap one needs to live with in such a team.

The scarcity of bullets I think was actually planned, seeing how the game discourages routine use of brute force unless you build for it.
Though if you look closely, each mission has one guaranteed nanofab, and I've yet to see one without at least one ammo pack.
It's mostly about the low ammo capacity on guns. The one-shot pistols are so shitty when it comes to cost-efficiency I never see myself wasting an inventory slot.

All in all, a nanofab mission or maxing out anarchy usually solves your problem with basic items unless you're really unlucky.

IMO, incognita programs is where the devs dropped the ball, if I can say so for a game that's otherwise pretty damned well designed.
Even with guaranteed terminals every mission, the selection is so piss-poor and the program space is so tight, I never really bothered with the more
specialized ones like bonus AP, reduced vision, and the whole lot. I can dig making hard decisions and all that, but it's a shame that close to 1/3 of program pool will only ever be used "when the stars ar right."
Some way to uninstall and store programs would go a long way here. Unlockable extra program slot or two wouldn't break the game either, I reckon.
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
If anything, I think Invisible Inc is one of the very few games that uses the RNG right (Telepath Tactics being another example). Everything tied to player choice is fully deterministic, so if you screw up, it's your own damn fault. The highly-abstract boardgame nature of the game is also why guns are so ammo-limited (they're trump cards you use after your Plan A and Plan B have failed). Thanks to the deterministic core, InvInc is also one of the few squad tactics games where playing ironman feels right.

Of course there's tons of RNG in level layouts and what kind of items you're getting, but you can adapt and overcome™. If you're not getting enough loot, hit up a nanofab mission and prioritize nanofabs + large safes over other things. If your Incognita loadout is crappy, pick the appropriate mission for that. If you're a total risk-averse scrub like me, start with Xu and Internationale to break some game mechanics and turn certain challenging layouts into cakewalks. Etc etc.
 

Darth Roxor

Royal Dongsmith
Staff Member
Joined
May 29, 2008
Messages
1,878,489
Location
Djibouti
The highly-abstract boardgame nature of the game is also why guns are so ammo-limited (they're trump cards you use after your Plan A and Plan B have failed).

unless you have a flurry gun + stim 4 + manage to herd all guards into one place :troll:
 

Zetor

Arcane
Joined
Jan 9, 2003
Messages
1,706
Location
Budapest, Hungary
The highly-abstract boardgame nature of the game is also why guns are so ammo-limited (they're trump cards you use after your Plan A and Plan B have failed).

unless you have a flurry gun + stim 4 + manage to herd all guards into one place :troll:
One of these days... one of these days.

I only really had the opportunity to try out the lesser version with Nika + flurry gun. Good times in that last mission (first playthrough, so I was kinda flying blind), though I think the AOE shock trap was a lot more useful overall...
 
Last edited:

kyrub

Augur
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
347
People complain that the game is short. I'd love to have more short and compact titles with unique content, like this one. In the last 7 years, this is the only game I have started and finished.
I can reccomend it to anyone with strained real life. It gives you all the clever, turn-based, gaming pleasure, that normally takes hundred game hours to achieve, in a very limitted time capsule.

I still play my preferred setup, expert with 14 rooms, more guards, more safes with 1/2 money plus more deamons. On 120 hours + 2 minute time limit. It keeps giving.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,489
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/20...sible-inc-is-giving-you-loads-of-information/

The Secret Behind Invisible, Inc. Is Giving You Loads Of Information

invisible_inc_peek_1.jpg


This is The Mechanic, where Alex Wiltshire invites developers to discuss the inner workings of their games. This time, Invisible, Inc. [official site].

Invisible, Inc.’s defining features aren’t its most obvious, and yet they’re all about making things obvious. This turn-based tactics game about hacking and sneaking through procedurally generated levels thrives on them, because they make you feel like a mastermind, even though your agents are outnumbered and outgunned. They make every turn a exercise in deliberate planning, and they allow you to pull the most fantastically elaborate and elegant heists. And you’d never think such simple concepts could have so much power:

THE MECHANIC: Peeking and observing


Every agent can use peek and observe. Peek lets an agent peer through a door, if next to one, or to crane around a wall to see what it obscures. Observing allows you to predict guards’ patrol patterns, drawing a path for their future movements on the ground. Both sound simple, but they give you a huge amount of knowledge, which when paired with hacking cameras and beating down guards, can crack open levels that initially look impregnable.

While they’re cornerstones of the finished game, they weren’t part of its first prototypes. In fact, they were added to fill a hole. Invisible, Inc. was first conceived as a turn-based take on Syndicate, and that meant it had lots of combat. It had different guns, ammo and damage types, and characters had health points. It was OK, but the design team realised it wasn’t anything new. So, led by designer Jason Dreger and studio head Jamie Cheng, they took it back to the drawing board to develop one aspect, its stealth. And that led them into taking another look at Klei’s previous game, the excellent stealth platformer, Mark of the Ninja.

What you can see in Mark of the Ninja depends on your character’s line of sight, and that means you spend a lot of time gathering information, clinging to walls and peeking through doorways in order to know as much as you can to plan your next movements. Dreger and the team, having come directly from Ninja, began to see that this kind of information gathering could also work in a turn-based game. “We wanted players to be able to think a few turns ahead,” says Dreger. “Instead of just going up to a door and then ending their turn, they’re going to be like, ‘I’m going to go up to the door, peek, and if there’s a guard I’m going to observe and then know that in two turns he’ll be there.’ It was to bring their thinking up to the next level.”

invisible_inc_peek_3.jpg


Both peek and observe cost valuable ability points that could be used on movement, but all players know they’re well worth the expenditure. That’s despite the fact that opening doors and many other abilities, such as hacking, cost absolutely nothing, a detail that on first glance seems counter-intuitive. Surely peeking takes less time than opening a door? And door-opening costs time in most other tactics games. But Klei noticed that players didn’t like the flow of the game if they paid to open doors. “Someone would move a character to a doorway, and they’d end up with not having enough points to hack that computer or open the door. It was always very frustrating,” says Dreger.

But they didn’t mind paying for information. In fact, they didn’t like peeking when it was free. “It made it boring. ‘Why do I have to do it? Why can’t I just do it all the time?’ So leaving it with a cost was a good thing, but it makes for a strange interface where some of your actions are free, some are not. Why is peeking more expensive than opening a door? So it was weird, but it worked.”

The information you can gather in Invisible, Inc. is rich and also absolute, in the sense that you can always tell whether a location is in view of the enemy or not. “The idea of perfect information in Mark of the Ninja was that having binary information for whether you’re seen or not seen and whether you’re heard or not heard means you can play on a different level. You’re not sensing if the guy can see you, you know if he’ll see you at this point so you can either avoid or use that. We really wanted that to be in Invisible, Inc.”

invisible_inc_peek_2.jpg


Perfect information, and lots of it, wasn’t so much of a game design problem as a UI one, and making it look good and readable was a process that took a great deal of the game’s development time. Again, there are weirdnesses in how Klei implemented it. For instance, though you don’t get a button for peeking unless you’re against a door or corner, you can peek anywhere using the hotkey P, and if you do, you might just see something extra. “We simply didn’t want that peek icon showing up everywhere,” says Dreger, and apparently if anyone has noticed, no one has complained.

Weird, too, is the way line-of-sight works. One thing is the way that when your agents are in cover, they’re invisible to all guards in front and to the sides of them. “The solution we came up with is kind of a hack, it’s unbelievable,” co-designer James Lantz explains in his excellent GDC talk about designing procedural stealth in Invisible, Inc., because your agent can often appear to be directly in view of a guard. “But what we lost in this intuitive scenario, we gained back again in high-level planning because we gave players a clear and simple system they could use and abuse.”

Another is the way the game resolves showing what can be seen. At first, the game was be very specific about what was in view of agents and what wasn’t, shading the grid in an aliased way, dark for unseen, bright for seen, but Klei felt the effect looked dated. “So we put in a new rendering system that drew these nice lines, and as agents moved they’d expand out in realtime. It looked really good, but it wasn’t precise.” The solution was shading the grid in reds to denote areas being watched by enemy guards, drones and cameras, and yellows to show squares that are hidden from them, so you can immediately tell where is safe. But what the game also does is to mark locations that are being watched, even if you can’t see the enemy. “That’s a weird one,” Dreger says. Turns out there are a lot of weird things in Invisible, Inc. And again, it’s down to player flow. Klein saw that without this feature, players tended to blunder into view of unseen cameras without peeking first, and often find their entire run ended in a single turn by nearby guards. Seeing the danger beforehand made Invisible, Inc. far more fun.

invisible_inc_peek_4.jpg


You’d think that all this information would make you feel overpowered, but you rarely do. In fact, you feel constant stress, despite having such certainty. A lot of it is down to the constantly up-ticking alarm level, which raises the difficulty as you take more turns. But more subtly, you’re also contending with the wildcard of what the AI will do when you’re not watching it. “Yeah, it’s interesting that in standard tactics games the random number element comes in shooting and critical hits and things like that, but in Invisible, Inc. it’s the location of the guards and where they randomly change their patrol route to,” says Dreger. Invisible, Inc. is not a game in which you can easily incapacitate guards indefinitely, so you’ll frequently encounter them again in having to recross areas as you search for objectives and get to the exit.

“The information can change behind you,” is the way that Dreger puts it. He was inspired by the original X-COM (which makes, with Syndicate, for two ‘90s Brit tactics games that Invisible, Inc. references), specifically the way that missions were so open and self-directed. You could go into a mission, encounter aliens and incur enough injuries and deaths among your squad to make assaulting the crashed UFO a bad idea, so you’d cut your losses, pick up as many sectoid carcasses as your troops could carry (to avoid a complete dead loss), and return to the dropship. “I love that you had that choice,” Dreger says, and in levels of Invisible, Inc. you can also cut and run, playing your agents’ safety against the risk of not being prepared enough for the final level.

That’s the beauty of having all this information to play with in Invisible, Inc. It allows you to focus on the bigger questions, from what your agents will do several turns in advance to the overall goal of amassing the skills you need and the agents you want in order to beat the endgame. When you step back, sure, Invisible, Inc. is a bit weird, but this is one of those cases of weirdness only making a game better.
 

Lord Azlan

Arcane
Patron
Shitposter
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
1,901
Thanks again to the Codex for this thread. Found it on Steam via the curator. Looks very interesting and different to anything else I have played. Finding it quite hard though - which is good and probably reflects my lameness.

Any Codex review about it?
 

Mazisky

Magister
Joined
Mar 8, 2015
Messages
2,082
Location
Rome, IT
Considering it seems to have good sales, why developers don't go further and make another tactic game?
 

Mozg

Arcane
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
2,033
I don't know that it's done that well compared to other Klei stuff, although it's hard to tell because a lot of their older games have been sold for next to free.
 

dukeofwhales

Cipher
Joined
Nov 13, 2013
Messages
423
Thanks again to the Codex for this thread. Found it on Steam via the curator. Looks very interesting and different to anything else I have played. Finding it quite hard though - which is good and probably reflects my lameness.

Any Codex review about it?

It's designed to be played and beaten on easy mode, then normal, then hard, rather than jumping in at your normal difficulty.

I'd probably recommend turning off the "extended campaign" part of the DLC for your first playthrough if you already have it, too. I don't really think it makes the game better, just longer.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom