Is HL2 innovative? DISCUSS

[visions]

Except that combat is a tiny part of gameplay in PST, and its flaws can be ignored in favour of how well the games does these others parts. Gunplay is a major part of HL2, and there's nothing else that the game does that justifies putting up with its flaws.

I don't think HL2 is "shit", as I reserve this description for much, much worse games*, but I cannot fathom putting it at anything higher than "average". Some nice ideas, some pretty graphics, very, very boring gameplay, and a shower of GotY awards.

* You want shit FPS games? Someone mentioned Corridor 7 in another thread. Fortress of Dr Radiaki. Mission in Asia. Tekwar. MOH: Pacific Assault. In Extremis. Operation Bodycount. Those are shit games. HL2 is nowhere near great, and I wouldn't even call it good, but it is MILES ahead of the POS FPS games that I just listed. Hell I'd still list it ahead of things like Black Ops and Crysis 2.

What's so horrid about Corridor 7? I see it as a Wolf 3D clone that came out too late, which seems more worthy of being called mediocre rather than truly horrifying. I never played the other Wolf clones (like Rise of the Triad or Blake Stone) though. Did it really suck so much when compared to them? Granted, I didn't play it back in the day, I played it in 2001 or something since I had found the box on sale for the equivalent of 3 euro in a local supermarket.

Tekwar, now that was an awkward abortion though.

 

[Sceptic]

I hate to break this to you, but vehicles were also available in Cybermage, and that was in 1995-1996.

Hovertank

If we're really going by exactly how old the supposed innovations of HL2 are, physics engine was there all the way back in Ultima Underworld, granted in a more rudimentary fashion than we've come to expect now, but future games like System Shock, and Thief, not to mention the criminally underrated Terra Nova, kept improving on that. It's telling I think that even one of the posts defending HL2 had to mention how it "popularized" this or that - this is the extent of HL2's "innovation", popularizing something that had already been done better, in a more accessible way that the masses could enjoy. There's nothing inherently wrong with this obviously- what is wrong is when you start calling it "innovation", or start claiming that it was "refined". The "it's popular so Codexers hate it" argument is also amusing, especially when talking FPS, since I am still a huge fan of Doom, and there was nothing more popular than this game when it came out.

What's so horrid about Corridor 7? I see it as a Wolf 3D clone that came out too late, which seems more worthy of being called mediocre rather than truly horrifying. I never played the other Wolf clones (like Rise of the Triad or Blake Stone) though. Did it really suck so much when compared to them?

It's probably the best of the games I listed actually, especially if you compare to something like In Extremis - which is (was) practically unplayable. But yeah, I find it very inferior to some of the other Wolf clones, like Blake Stone (the first one was actually quite good, and impressive considering it was made by pretty much 2 people) and especially ROTT. Take ROTT, it actually felt like a proper, full-blown game that the designers spent time on, with some really great engine tricks (it can do things that even the Doom engine is incapable of), some great level design, great gunplay... Corridor 7 has nothing that really puts it ahead of Wolf 3D, but where Wolf's strength was that it was the first, and had good enough design to keep it fun even following the deluge of clones, C7 didn't have either pros. Maybe I was harsh and it doesn't deserve "truly awful" label though.

 

[Black]

Man, OP ejected rather quickly...

 

[sser]

Corridor 7 is one of the first three games I ever played. For that reason it holds a special, nostalgic place in my brain. Really, it wasn't that different from other shooters, it just had a really awful and bright color palette with largely uninteresting aesthetics. I didn't notice any gameplay differences compared to other games. Popping the giant eyeball things was always satisfying.

 

[octavius]

The fuck was innovative about HL2? What about it changed the FPS games forever?

For the sake of educating the ignorami I'll answer as is that were a serious question.

HL2 featured physics simulation and physics-based puzzles as significant parts of gameplay. E.g. Gravity Gun. Today it doesn't sound like much but before HL2 the closest thing to using physics in FPS gameplay was rocket jump.

I never got to the part with the Gravity Gun, but the "physics simulation" was so totally disappointing. Instead of leading to emergent gameplay it was used for stupid adventure game type puzzles, or as someone else said: "Gimmicky predefined physics setups".

In addition the rest of the gameplay was pop-a-mole. Enemies pop up, and Gordon pops them.

Not a bad game, but so disappointing. I never completed HL2, but I did complete despised games like Invisble War and Unreal 2. The power of expectation is great...

 

[prodigydancer]

Man, OP ejected rather quickly...

Eh? I'm still here but it's hardly news to me that the Codex is about hating video games and the amount of flak a game is likely to receive is in direct proportion to its popularity.

 

[Black]

Man, OP ejected rather quickly...

Eh? I'm still here but it's hardly news to me that the Codex is about hating video games and the amount of flak a game is likely to receive is in direct proportion to its popularity.

Ah, from "HL2 is innovative" to "Codex just hates everything anyway lol".

 

[theSavant]

Don't know if HL2 was innovative, but it surely has one of the most varied gameplays. The thing which I didn't like, was, that it made no sense in repsect to HL1. Only years later, when I read the "whole story" behind HL it made sense. Valve should have done more effort in connecting the parts. I think what lacked most in the game, was the suspense, thrill, exploring the BlackMesa chaos. HL2 just didn't feature that. It was different. But not bad. I found it good. Was it innovative? Uhm, I don't know.

But I recall a cool feature: you could give NPCs commands like "go to this position" and this allowed really cool tactical combats. Especially in the later chapters, in the house-to-house fightings you felt like a chief commander, letting your small army fight, sending them forward etc. I didn't experience that in other games.

 

[prodigydancer]

Ah, from "HL2 is innovative" to "Codex just hates everything anyway lol".

Well you wanted my opinion on the ongoing discussion, didn't you? It's page 5 and HL2 is already "popamole". By page 10, should we get that far, it'll be "worse than potato shooters."

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Ah, from "HL2 is innovative" to "Codex just hates everything anyway lol".

Well you wanted my opinion on the ongoing discussion, didn't you? It's page 5 and HL2 is already "popamole". By page 10, should we get that far, it'll be "worse than potato shooters."

Maybe you can go back to RPGWatch where HL2 would be considered an innovative RPG and enjoy your circlejerking there? Just because people realize that the game is overrated doesn't mean that the Codex is simply trying to be edgy.

 

[Lyric Suite]

HL = gud

HL2 = not as gud

That's it. That's all there is to say about this subject. Innovushuan? There's your fucking innovation right here:



Fuck new. Only good matters.

 

[prodigydancer]

Maybe you can go back to RPGWatch

Why? I have fun here. I'm a big boy and I'm not gonna cry just because someone on the Internet doesn't share my opinion.

On topic: I still think that HL2 was one of the most innovative FPS ever and it was every bit as good as HL1. It's relatively easy to add new systems to complex games (like RPGs, yes) but it's much harder to add something to an FPS without turning it into an ARPG. So adding physics-based gameplay element was a great idea and HL2 deserved the praise it got.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Maybe you can go back to RPGWatch

Why? I have fun here. I'm a big boy and I'm not gonna cry just because someone on the Internet doesn't share my opinion.

On topic: I still think that HL2 was one of the most innovative FPS ever and it was every bit as good as HL1.

Yeah. Right.

This forum is filled with faggots, because some ppl say that mah favorite game is not as good as I believe it is.

 

[Lucky]

Looking for innovation at Valve seems weird to me, because they've always been more about polishing the work of others rather than coming up with something new. That doesn't mean that the games they make are bad, but praising them as the masters of innovation is just misguided.

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

HL2 is the second best shooter after HL1.

Anyone who disagrees with this can fuck off and die in a horrible fire.

 

[Black]

Joined:Nov 30, 2003

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Hey why don't ya tell us how awesome Doom and Quake are? Again.

 

[Lyric Suite]

Doom > Half Life 2. Like, it isn't even a contest.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

David Bradley > Gaben

 

[Wirdschowerdn]

Cybermage was ahead of it's time (as were it's system requirements), but like System Shock, it was pushed aside by fastfood fodder like Doombed.

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Cybermage manages to do what HL did way before it came out + some more (Cybermage = Deus Ex 0.5).
Except HL takes the credit for being innovative, while in truth it wasn't even remotely innovative. Just like in case with World on a Wire and Matrix.

 

[prodigydancer]

Doom > Half Life 2. Like, it isn't even a contest.

It's p. hard to compete with Doom. But then again Pong > everything else.

 

[the_shadow]

Doom shits all over Half Life 2 in regards to gameplay. It was also more innovative for its time.

 

[octavius]

Doom > Half Life -> Quake -> Half Life 2. As in which game is most fun to play.

Cybermage is in theory a very good game, but when I tried it last year I didn't find it very playable. On my play list I've commented "Clunky controls, stupid AI".

 

[zwanzig_zwoelf]

Doom > Half Life -> Quake -> Half Life 2. As in which game is most fun to play.

Cybermage is in theory a very good game, but when I tried it last year I didn't find it very playable. On my play list I've commented "Clunky controls, stupid AI".

Controls are indeed clunky, but AI is good enough for the time.
I had to ditch mouse support since mouse is close to useless in the game due to low speed and move on to keyboard-only controls (using numpad).