Isometric games in VR - Discuss!

[IHaveHugeNick]

What the fuck would even be a point of isometric RPGs on VR/AR?

They literally can't work without keyboard and mouse. Isometric camera view by its very nature, loses its biggest advantage - being able to see a bigger scene - if you're physically limited to your natural field of view.

 

[Osvir]

What the fuck would even be a point of isometric RPGs on VR/AR?

A) Microsoft is going for it (AR)
B) Apple has patents for it (AR & VR)
C) Google is going for it (AR & VR)
D) Facebook is going for it (VR)
E) Konami & Nintendo are investing into mobile gaming.
F) Experts & Specialists are all excited, positive. AR might replace PC.
G) At E3 2015 there was TONS of VR and AR software companies.

I'm just pointing out industry changes happening in a foreseeable future, not too long from now, in relevancy to this thread (sales analysis) and my belief that PoE, D:OS, WL2 and other Kickstarted, Unity made titles, will most likely benefit from jumping onto the train ASAP. I.E. prosperity. Get an App idea, develop it for HoloLens, thank me later.

Furthermore, imagine this. The computer screen you're sitting in front of right now, and the stationary computer as well (if you have one of those), how much space does that take up in your living area? How much space does a VR or AR headset take up? Well, for all VR you need a cord and computer and all that, but for AR (HoloLens) you don't need a cord, you don't need a phone or computer. It is an untethered computer in itself, that takes up 1/10th of the space your computer takes up.

Inside the AR device (HoloLens), theoretically and conceptually, you could create a virtual screen, exactly the same size of your computer screen, you could create a virtual keyboard, a virtual mouse (or use your hands and fingers and body). You could place the game on your floor, hovering in front of you, on your roof. You could have 5 screens that take up Zero Volume space in your living room.

The point is the business opportunities moreso than having an isometric RPG on VR/AR. I also think that an Isometric RPG would be much easier to handle on an AR device, as it has much more application and blends with the real world, whilst VR shuts you out from the real world and fits better for FPS games.

You know Ender's Game? AR strategy gaming.
You know Ironman? Tony Stark? XCOM Turn-Based gaming.

It is a matter for designers and developers to simply angle the visual field of the isometric, in an AR device, so that you don't lose the perspective when playing. I'm sure developers and designers would excell at creating a functional and fun interactive experience using HoloLens or any of the VR devices. Also, for as long as I've been following HoloLens develop, nothing has stated that you won't be able to use a controller, a keyboard or a mouse. With VR you can use a keyboard and mouse, why wouldn't you be able to do it with AR?

 

[Lacrymas]

Yeah, no. Without any kind of physical feedback loop, the kinaesthetics of playing a game is lost. It would feel floaty and imprecise, just like the Wii and any kind of motion control bullshit.

 

[Osvir]

If you say so

Repeat:

A) Microsoft is going for it (AR)
B) Apple has patents for it (AR & VR)
C) Google is going for it (AR & VR)
D) Facebook is going for it (VR)
E) Konami & Nintendo are investing into mobile gaming.
F) Experts & Specialists are all excited, positive. "Augmented Reality Interface might replace Personal Computer Interface".
G) At E3 2015 there was TONS of VR and AR software companies & hardware.

Prospects.

 

[Lacrymas]

What does that have to do with anything? I didn't invent physics, so I'm not saying anything that hasn't been said before. What the big companies are going for hardly matters in the face of reality.

 

[Osvir]

Like I previously said, with different wording: to analyse sales you have to also analyse the prospects of tomorrow.

But... the face of reality is that a lot of the big companies (those who shaped and shape this industry) are going for VR & AR... sooooo.... I don't quite understand how you can say it doesn't matter. Or do you speak of the current reality? Then I might understand, but I'm looking towards the coming reality (which isn't all that far away).

In 5 years HoloLens will release on the commercial market. During these 5 years, developers, designers, software creators and so on in all sectors of the world (Trade, Construction, Production, Design, Textile, Blueprints, Transport, Government, etc.etc.) are going to start using and developing for this technology.

White March Part 2 and Pillars of Eternity 2 have all ability to release in this timeframe on PC, exposure and expanding the POE brand. Then, when HoloLens is released, it wouldn't be too hard to port (I presume) POE1 and POE2 to HoloLens, and POE3 might even be made using a HoloLens. Timing and coincedences are all in place. Now it's just a matter of question whether any of the Developing Studios are going to take the step to do it.

Boardgames, Cardgames, Holographic PnP games and so on and forth. Isn't there any way the Codex could benefit from such technology? Imagine if we could talk virtually/holographically face to face instead of 2D screen to 2D screen? RPGCodex, the Boardgame? Now is the time to contact Microsoft, guys

 

[IHaveHugeNick]

A) Microsoft is going for it (AR)
B) Apple has patents for it (AR & VR)
C) Google is going for it (AR & VR)
D) Facebook is going for it (VR)
E) Konami & Nintendo are investing into mobile gaming.
F) Experts & Specialists are all excited, positive. AR might replace PC.
G) At E3 2015 there was TONS of VR and AR software companies.

And?

It wouldn't matter if NASA is going for it. It still won't work for isometric RPG. The genre specific features and limitations work against it. There's no way around it.

Furthermore, imagine this. The computer screen you're sitting in front of right now, and the stationary computer as well (if you have one of those), how much space does that take up in your living area? How much space does a VR or AR headset take up? Well, for all VR you need a cord and computer and all that, but for AR (HoloLens) you don't need a cord, you don't need a phone or computer. It is an untethered computer in itself, that takes up 1/10th of the space your computer takes up.

It takes 1/10 of space while giving me 1/10th of visible area, yeah. Isometric view is all about projecting as big of a scene as possible. That's what makes it great. Cramming it into a coffee table is counterproductive.

Inside the AR device (HoloLens), theoretically and conceptually, you could create a virtual screen, exactly the same size of your computer screen, you could create a virtual keyboard, a virtual mouse (or use your hands and fingers and body). You could place the game on your floor, hovering in front of you, on your roof. You could have 5 screens that take up Zero Volume space in your living room.

Virtual mouse will never happen in serious gaming, or any serious work that requires precision. Controller needs to give physical feedback, just like keyboard needs to give physical feedback if you're typing prolonged amount of text. Touch screen is fine if you need to type out an email, for typing a thesis its a nightmare.

The point is the business opportunities moreso than having an isometric RPG on VR/AR. I also think that an Isometric RPG would be much easier to handle on an AR device, as it has much more application and blends with the real world, whilst VR shuts you out from the real world and fits better for FPS games.

Isometric RPG wouldn't work on either of them. AR, for reasons I already explained. VR - the whole point of VR is immersion, and isometric view is anti-immersive by its very nature.

You know Ender's Game? AR strategy gaming.
You know Ironman? Tony Stark? XCOM Turn-Based gaming.

But not isometric.

Also, for as long as I've been following HoloLens develop, nothing has stated that you won't be able to use a controller, a keyboard or a mouse. With VR you can use a keyboard and mouse, why wouldn't you be able to do it with AR?

Because there's completely no point having augumented reality glasses if you're physically locked to one location by the neccesity of having a physical controller.

AR/VR certainly have gaming applications, moreso AR, as personally I'm convinced VR will bomb bigtime. For isometric RPGs though, they're pointless.

And HoloLens will flop anyways, as amazing piece of technology as it is, because Microsoft will inevitably fuck something up, as they always do. Then 3 years later Apple will launch the exact same device and take credit for inventing it. You heard it here first.

 

[Lacrymas]

Like I previously said, with different wording: to analyse sales you have to also analyse the prospects of tomorrow.

But... the face of reality is that a lot of the big companies (those who shaped and shape this industry) are going for VR & AR... sooooo.... I don't quite understand how you can say it doesn't matter. Or do you speak of the current reality? Then I might understand, but I'm looking towards the coming reality (which isn't all that far away).

I'm saying that VR/AR won't have physical feedback and that alone is enough to doom it from a somewhat hardcore gameplay perspective. Isometric RPGs don't stand a chance.

 

[Osvir]

I'm saying that VR/AR won't have physical feedback and that alone is enough to doom it from a somewhat hardcore gameplay perspective. Isometric RPGs don't stand a chance.

Hardcore gameplay perspective? Pfft! When AR gets to the point where I can sling and aim holohraphic fireballs skillfully and accurately from my hand, that's when it gets hardcore. But that's more of a FPS feature.

I still don't see how Isometric games don't stand a chance though, and "physical feedback" isn't good enough to state that it wouldn't work. Developers and Designers will figure it out anyways, making it interactive, interesting and fun.

EDIT: And all that fluff about "But it's isometric... that's why it won't work"... isometric camera angle is a setting. It is a matter of having one holographic screen having isometric options. It is a perspective.

I use a laptop, and if I would cut out a square block of "Decimetrical Volume, XYZ, width, height, depth" from where my 2D laptop begins, and behind it, then the viewpoint from me and where the "game space" is is no different whether I use a Laptop or a Holographic device (such as HoloLens). It would, potentially, be no difference between playing on an ordinary computer, and a Holographic computer.

 

[Lacrymas]

I still don't see how Isometric games don't stand a chance though, and "physical feedback" isn't good enough to state that it wouldn't work. Developers and Designers will figure it out anyways, making it interactive, interesting and fun.

Like I said - it's because motion controls have proven themselves to be imprecise and bullshit. That's mostly because of lack of physical feedback. People rage when they click a few pixels away from their target in D:OS, they will surely drive themselves into a catatonic coma if it was any more imprecise than that.

 

[prodigydancer]

/sigh

Why don't the mods move all this AR/VR related crap into a separate thread somewhere? It doesn't belong here and it's not worth the kilobytes of storage it wastes. Hey, you know what? I remember hearing that VR would replace conventional gaming real soon... oh, and the year was 1995.

It was total bullshit 20 years ago and it's still total bullshit now.

 

[Osvir]

I thought it was just prospects for future sales for Obsidian~ but as you will.

VR and AR are two different things. I don't see much of a bright future for VR, it's going to be a short-lived one, except becoming big in the porno industry, or people who want to get away from Winter seasons for an hour (VR Salons akin to Tanning Salons~ Minority Report portrays some of this). We live in a different time now as well, where information spreads faster and marketing spreads faster. 20 years ago 1/100th of everybody remotely interested knew what it was. I haven't researched the history much of VR but as far as I recall reading there was about 2 companies that tried developing something for it, and it was shit? Everybody that have talked about VR 20 years ago = "It was shit".

On the other hand, everybody I know who have tried Occulus or similar all say "This is the shit!".

Anyways, as I said, I think VR is sub-par in comparison to what AR will bring. AR will eventually be capable of doing both VR screens (screens overlain across your whole field of view, simulating the same thing as Occulus or Morpheus) and it will have real world application and bridge Virtual Reality and Reality in a way that VR Headset never can be capable of (because of being closed).

VR = Matrix (Occulus, Morpheus, Cardboard, HTC Vive)
AR = Jarvis (HoloLens)

Glass is somewhere in between, or more akin to iWatch. An accessory. Only in HoloLens can you manipulate digital objects, and actually apply it in a professional work environment. It is not supposed to be a computer built for entertainment. It's a new type of computer interface, just like the touch phone were a new type of phone interface.

Finally, 20 years ago none of the big companies were as invested (financially & productively) as they are this time around.

Looking forward to seeing your current computers in a future museum (just like they did with old mobile phones)

 

[pippin]

All this will fail because women will prefer to play Candy Crush.

 

[Osvir]

Relevant:
http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34066941

 

[Neanderthal]

Hope this takes off, i'm gonna rob a lot o me neighbours houses. Porn'll probably lead way in this as all things though.

 

[Arulan]

Here is what they're doing for Runes. In terms of perspective and locomotion, it could work for an isometric (in spirit) RPG. You'd probably need contextual menus, or something like the menu navigation in Tilt Brush, where you're using your right hand to select, and your left hand holds the menu.

 

[upwardlymobile]

the killer app is going to be a porno game, so they should really be spending as much money on force feedback fleshlights as on goggles

 

[a Goat]

They'll all support VR/AR just as soon as they'll support 3d screens.

 

[Osvir]

Here is what they're doing for Runes. In terms of perspective and locomotion, it could work for an isometric (in spirit) RPG. You'd probably need contextual menus, or something like the menu navigation in Tilt Brush, where you're using your right hand to select, and your left hand holds the menu.

That's what I'm trying to say as well, but for an isometric game, it would be a fixated camera angle still, a customizable "commander seat" if you will, and if you turn, the "playing field" would follow, so that you would always have that fixed perspective as well. You could even have Character Screens separate, customizable UI windows, so instead of going into 3 Menu's to level up your character, you'd just lift your head slightly wherever you've positioned the character sheet in the room. Interactive loot, lockpicking, skills.

 

[Siveon]

That's what I'm trying to say as well, but for an isometric game, it would be a fixated camera angle still, and if you turn, the "playing field" would follow, so that you would always have that fixed camera perspective as well. You could even have Character Screens separate, customizable UI windows, so instead of going into 3 Menu's to level up your character, you'd just lift your head slightly wherever you've positioned the character sheet in the room. Interactive loot, lockpicking, skills.

Sounds pointless. So, I'll wear out my neck and look like an idiot with 2 dildos so I could do something that a few mouse-clicks could do easily?

No doubt VR will revolutionize the porn industry, but isometric RPGs? C'mon. Ultima Underworld clones, maybe, but anything in a top-down perspective...I have my doubts.

 

[laclongquan]

Point 1: Huge screen size. We are talking about a massive screen size for your graphic here.

Point 2: For what they bring (huge screen size) it also provide ease of use.

Point 3: Aircraft simulation~ Hell, air movement simulation.

Point 4: need more advances in both glasses and handheld's feedback.

I do think it's a possible and positive trend. But the obstacles can be huge

- Really detailed graphic.
- POssibly really 3D stereo sounds, even more than the current level.
- Motion control need to be even more precise due to the huge screen size issue.
Those three things can be killer, raise cost of game development skyhigh. The last point need outside development.

 

[a Goat]

AR as Microsoft puts it can lead to development of holographic board wargames, this is true for sure but I wonder if it will get any following because wargame guys like their figures, models etc.

 

[Destroid]

This technology is completely unsuitable for isometric games. You might as well say that VR and AR are going to replace televisions.

 

[pakoito]

I mingle with VR at work sometimes and can say positively that any 3D game with point & click interfaces can look good and be playable, today. I can see myself playing Pillars on GearVR.

It'll be like a big tabletop, and you're not supposed to be moving across the room but just play sitting. The game is a screen in your face centered comfortably on your character, you pan and point with your head and interact with the mounted touchpad. VR effect comes from depth on the scene, more 3D glasses than user embedding

The problem to bridge is the UI and the text, as they're 2D and too small to be readable without getting a headache.

 

[Night Goat]

Why would you play an isometric RPG in VR? Let's be real: the whole point of VR is porn. And isometric porn would just be weird.