Jedi Outcast is a truly great game - Source Code Released

[Darth Roxor]

A few weeks ago I started a full Kyle Katarn marathon, starting Dark Forces, ending Jedi Academy (started Academy yesterday).

When playing Jedi Knight, I was reminded how hilariously useless the lightsaber is, its only use in duels with dark jedi because they have IDDQD vs guns. So when transitioning to Outcast, I thought "hey, let's try a full guns playthrough".

And it worked. I went through the whole game using nothing but guns. Killed both Tavion and Desann with multiple blaster bursts to the face. The only instance I had to use the saber in a fight was against Galak because I didn't have enough ammo on me.

Now trying the same approach in Jedi Academy, and it also works.

This kind of made me realise how Jedi Outcast really is simply an excellent game. It's completely linear, but actually offers tremendous replayability. This is thanks to the fact that both 'modes' in which it can be played are satisfying and amusing: going full jedi master with only force powers and lightsaber hack'n'slash is cool because hacking down hordes of stormtroopers and then having duels with reborn is just fun. Going full guns with no lightsaber is also cool because the shooty mechanics are good enough, and the game is decently difficult thanks to the enemies coming in large groups, with varied weapons (blasters, repeaters, rocket launchers, flechettes, bowcasters, disintegrators, grenades) and their guns pack a punch. When discussing it with my bros, some other really mofo playthrough ideas came up as well (like 'full diplomat' = run/stealth through all levels, using mind trick and weapon pulling to minimise casualties). And then there's also the overall solid level design, with some secrets and decently open maps. Saying that I've played through Jedi Outcast like 7 times is not an exaggeration, I think, and each time I play, it always supplies buckets of fun and never gets old.


Best shooter ever 10/10. They don't make 'em like they used to anymore.

 

[laclongquan]

Screenshot or get the fuck out!

 

[Esquilax]

While I liked the single-player in Jedi Outcast a lot thanks to the awesome interactivity offered by the Force powers (fuck man, I hear people praising the magic system in Skyrim, and it doesn't open up a fraction of the gameplay opportunities than stuff like Grip/Push/Pull does) as well as the solid level design. But what really made the game so amazing for me was the incredible multiplayer.

I mean, HOLY FUCK! It's been years since I played it, but it was hands-down some of the best MP ever. Pure, balls-to-the-wall adrenaline all the time - using Jump to get around, tossing people into chasms with Grip, wearing them down with Lightning, masking your presence with the Jedi Mind Trick, frantically getting away from someone while Healing. Really, I'm hard-pressed to think of a multiplayer game with that combination of depth, uniqueness and that sense of adrenaline rush every single time. Some of the most fun I've ever had playing the game.

 

[Darth Roxor]

But what really made the game so amazing for me was the incredible multiplayer.

Damn right, son. I only played some 1v1 lightsaber duels on Lan, but fuck me were they awesome.

Meanwhile, compare that to the multiplayer of Jedi Knight, now THAT was hilarious, in a kind of bad way. Both dudes equip sabers, rush at each other and press alt fire for the double swing.

HIT SOMETHING? GOOD, YOU USUALLY WIN.

DIDN'T HIT? RUN BACK AND REPEAT

 

[ScottishMartialArts]

Jedi Knight Dark Forces II was the better game thanks to some of the best level design ever to appear in a first person shooter. Outcast has better lightsaber mechanics, but the Dark Forces II lightsaber was far from useless.

 

[Darth Roxor]

Jedi Knight Dark Forces II was the better game thanks to some of the best level design ever to appear in a first person shooter. Outcast has better lightsaber mechanics, but the Dark Forces II lightsaber was far from useless.

The problem with Jedi Knight's lightsaber is that guns are much better. With the saber, you have to rush into the thick of it, often turning your back on enemies and taking free blows. Attacking also disables your shot deflection, which means you often get shot in the face by the very enemy you are about to kill. Meanwhile, with guns you just keep your distance and sidestep all the time to take minimal damage while killing everything just as well.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

The lightsaber in JK really was bad. Almost nobody used it in multiplayer until Saber Battle X 3.1 came out. Then sabers became fucking awesome. The best time I've ever had in multiplayer was using SBX 3.1 in that game.

Jedi Outcast was terrific, best thing about it was the Stormtrooper dialogue. Sneak up behind them and just sit there while listening to what they say, it's great. I think they do the same in Jedi Academy too. And it isn't just Stormtroopers... listen to the officers, the Reborn etc.

 

[udm]

Saber Battle X 3.1

Massassi Temple? Good times.

Anyway back on topic, I was really excited when I finally got my hands on Jedi Outcast. Finished it in a few days, then played the shit out of multiplayer Duel and community-released SP ladder maps. The SP campaign is fun and memorable in parts, but the game's multiplayer is also excellent. Stances are nicely balanced, and dueling is intense stuff. Jedi Academy is a disappointment in that regard because it tips the scales so badly with the lightstaff. Spamming left-right is too easy compared to the single lightsaber's Yellow or Blue stance, and the only way to get killed is if you get careless.

I managed to snag a copy of the Jedi Outcast Special Edition on eBay recently, for a few dollars. Comes in an embossed metal box with a sweet looking lightsaber keychain :geek: I didn't even know a Special Ed existed until I chanced upon one on eBay.

 

[Roguey]

And then there's also the overall solid level design, with some secrets and decently open maps.

Jedi Outcast has some of the shittiest level design I've ever seen in a video game. A lot of times you're left having no idea what to do or where to go because there's no subtle-teaching at all (compare this with Doom and it fails). Then there's the matter of that awful level you have to play through after you get your lightsaber; you think you'd get opportunities to use it once you get it but no, here's a level filled with hitscan snipers and grenade-wielding chumps. And then there's those old early-mid-2000s favorites, the mandatory stealth, underwaterzero-gravity, and vehicle sections. Raven blamed the shitty levels on rushed development because Lucas Arts only gave them a year to make it (started February 2001, released March 2002) . Business as usual for them.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Saber Battle X 3.1

Massassi Temple? Good times.

Anyway back on topic, I was really excited when I finally got my hands on Jedi Outcast. Finished it in a few days, then played the shit out of multiplayer Duel and community-released SP ladder maps. The SP campaign is fun and memorable in parts, but the game's multiplayer is also excellent. Stances are nicely balanced, and dueling is intense stuff. Jedi Academy is a disappointment in that regard because it tips the scales so badly with the lightstaff. Spamming left-right is too easy compared to the single lightsaber's Yellow or Blue stance, and the only way to get killed is if you get careless.

I managed to snag a copy of the Jedi Outcast Special Edition on eBay recently, for a few dollars. Comes in an embossed metal box with a sweet looking lightsaber keychain :geek: I didn't even know a Special Ed existed until I chanced upon one on eBay.

Massassi Temple, the site that started modding for me. SBX and Ninja Kage. And there was some great maps. There was a Las Vegas-like mod set in a casino with a huge waterfall outside (might have been called Caesar's Palace), I played that over and over again, so many places to hide and just drop down behind people and kill them. I also liked the Theed Palace mod, Force Jumping my way around the hangar. This was all through the MSN Gaming Zone. Memories...

 

[Syril]

old games are better than shit of today. news at 11

 

[Dexter]

While I liked the single-player in Jedi Outcast a lot thanks to the awesome interactivity offered by the Force powers (fuck man, I hear people praising the magic system in Skyrim, and it doesn't open up a fraction of the gameplay opportunities than stuff like Grip/Push/Pull does) as well as the solid level design. But what really made the game so amazing for me was the incredible multiplayer.

I mean, HOLY FUCK! It's been years since I played it, but it was hands-down some of the best MP ever. Pure, balls-to-the-wall adrenaline all the time - using Jump to get around, tossing people into chasms with Grip, wearing them down with Lightning, masking your presence with the Jedi Mind Trick, frantically getting away from someone while Healing. Really, I'm hard-pressed to think of a multiplayer game with that combination of depth, uniqueness and that sense of adrenaline rush every single time. Some of the most fun I've ever had playing the game.

Yep, best MultiPlayer Shooter I ever played, I wasn't a "saber-only" noob though but did fast-paced CTF/TDM goodness with full weapons and full force. Since most games turned to console ports I haven't had an experience like that in a long time, nowadays it's mostly about hiding behind walls and some retarded new game modes like "Whore Mode" or whatever, Tribes: Ascend somewhat gives that feeling back but only in a somewhat limited capacity.

ctf_ns_streets, ctf_yavin, ctf_bespin and to a lot lesser extent ctf_imperial ftw!

 

[udm]

Massassi Temple, the site that started modding for me. SBX and Ninja Kage. And there was some great maps. There was a Las Vegas-like mod set in a casino with a huge waterfall outside (might have been called Caesar's Palace), I played that over and over again, so many places to hide and just drop down behind people and kill them. I also liked the Theed Palace mod, Force Jumping my way around the hangar. This was all through the MSN Gaming Zone. Memories...

Yeap Caesar's Palace - that was very popular with the community. I didn't join MSN Gaming Zone though; I played JK online via Gamespy Arcade. The community was small, but consistent, until Jedi Outcast was released, and then people started to leave. I remember some people calling SBX the "poor man's Jedi Outcast", but it was a really well-made mod nonetheless.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

Yeah it's true that Jedi Knight II's levels were absolutely superb.

 

[potatojohn]

Should I play these games even though I hate star wars?

 

[JarlFrank]

Should I play these games even though I hate star wars?

Yes.

 

[Rhalle]

Saber Battle X 3.1

Massassi Temple? Good times.

Anyway back on topic, I was really excited when I finally got my hands on Jedi Outcast. Finished it in a few days, then played the shit out of multiplayer Duel and community-released SP ladder maps. The SP campaign is fun and memorable in parts, but the game's multiplayer is also excellent. Stances are nicely balanced, and dueling is intense stuff. Jedi Academy is a disappointment in that regard because it tips the scales so badly with the lightstaff. Spamming left-right is too easy compared to the single lightsaber's Yellow or Blue stance, and the only way to get killed is if you get careless.

I managed to snag a copy of the Jedi Outcast Special Edition on eBay recently, for a few dollars. Comes in an embossed metal box with a sweet looking lightsaber keychain :geek: I didn't even know a Special Ed existed until I chanced upon one on eBay.

Massassi Temple, the site that started modding for me. SBX and Ninja Kage. And there was some great maps. There was a Las Vegas-like mod set in a casino with a huge waterfall outside (might have been called Caesar's Palace), I played that over and over again, so many places to hide and just drop down behind people and kill them. I also liked the Theed Palace mod, Force Jumping my way around the hangar. This was all through the MSN Gaming Zone. Memories...

Anyone remember the skin pack called BFP "Big Fluffy Pack" ?

I made a couple skins that were in that.

It's been so long I can't remember if it was for the first one or the second one that was for Jedi Outcast.

Edit: Only one I can find for sure is the one I did that got into the second one. It really wasn't that great a skin iirc.

Scroll down and you can see my name.

http://www.jediknight.net/jkmag/bfp2/credit.html

I think I had another one that must have been in the first one. It was better, if I remember correctly. It was actually just called "Rhalle".

 

[IDtenT]

I don't know how many times I played the last level of Jedi Outcast. I killed those dark Jedi over and over and over. It was just so much fun. Lightsabers that are actually fun.

 

[kingcomrade]

If Outcast is the game I'm thinking of, I agree. There have been a couple of the dark forces/star wars FPS games over the past decade and they kind of mix together in my mind, but I do remember playing some of the more recent jedi games going "wow this is actually well done". Is this the game where you go to the jedi temple and have to force move blocks around? thats the game I mean

God damn, I need to get that game again

 

[Esquilax]

If Outcast is the game I'm thinking of, I agree. There have been a couple of the dark forces/star wars FPS games over the past decade and they kind of mix together in my mind, but I do remember playing some of the more recent jedi games going "wow this is actually well done". Is this the game where you go to the jedi temple and have to force move blocks around? thats the game I mean

God damn, I need to get that game again

Yeah, that's when the single-player campaign begins to pick up. To be honest, Roguey isn't that off on his criticisms of the level design of the first part of the Jedi Outcast campaign. A lot of stupid design - Nar Shadaa was especially annoying because of the fact that you could get sniped at nearly any time. Very frustrating map, that one.

 

[Sceptic]

What SMA and Roguey said. Jedi Knight is such a better game. And once you play Mysteries of the Sith you realize just how powerful the lightsaber really is. Even in the base game, you're pretty much untouchable by blaster fire with the saber on.

I never liked Outcast, but then it takes SUCH a long time before it gives you the saber, it's as linear as the next Modern Warfare, and it pulls off the unfortivable sin: an unwinnable fight, defeat by cutscene. Fuck you Raven.

For what it is (ie linear-as-hell and completely scripted shooter) it's not so bad, and probably the best actually, but it is the model of the FPS decline, while Jedi Knight took the traditional FPS formula and pushed every single element into as best as it could get. And god the level design... I haven't played the game in almost a decade (probably more) yet clearly remember entire levels from it. And they were HUGE. Multiplayer was hilariously fun as well.

Jesus Christ Roguey's post reminded me of the Nar Shadaa level now. Fuck that was bad. Just gained your lightsaber and powers? congratulations, have a big level where they are all COMPLETELY FUCKING USELESS.

 

[TripJack]

I liked Outcast a lot. But I agree about it having some shit levels. The one right after you get your powers was annoying as fuck, but I thought the ones before you get them were even worse. I found the gunplay in Outcast to be pretty dull... Of course the saber is also a bit dull since it makes killing most enemies a trivial matter.

Multiplayer was cool beans though.

 

[Deleted member 7219]

Saber Battle X 3.1

Massassi Temple? Good times.

Anyway back on topic, I was really excited when I finally got my hands on Jedi Outcast. Finished it in a few days, then played the shit out of multiplayer Duel and community-released SP ladder maps. The SP campaign is fun and memorable in parts, but the game's multiplayer is also excellent. Stances are nicely balanced, and dueling is intense stuff. Jedi Academy is a disappointment in that regard because it tips the scales so badly with the lightstaff. Spamming left-right is too easy compared to the single lightsaber's Yellow or Blue stance, and the only way to get killed is if you get careless.

I managed to snag a copy of the Jedi Outcast Special Edition on eBay recently, for a few dollars. Comes in an embossed metal box with a sweet looking lightsaber keychain :geek: I didn't even know a Special Ed existed until I chanced upon one on eBay.

Massassi Temple, the site that started modding for me. SBX and Ninja Kage. And there was some great maps. There was a Las Vegas-like mod set in a casino with a huge waterfall outside (might have been called Caesar's Palace), I played that over and over again, so many places to hide and just drop down behind people and kill them. I also liked the Theed Palace mod, Force Jumping my way around the hangar. This was all through the MSN Gaming Zone. Memories...

Anyone remember the skin pack called BFP "Big Fluffy Pack" ?

I made a couple skins that were in that.

It's been so long I can't remember if it was for the first one or the second one that was for Jedi Outcast.

Edit: Only one I can find for sure is the one I did that got into the second one. It really wasn't that great a skin iirc.

Scroll down and you can see my name.

http://www.jediknight.net/jkmag/bfp2/credit.html

I think I had another one that must have been in the first one. It was better, if I remember correctly. It was actually just called "Rhalle".

BFP was something I used all the time. I can't even remember which skins I liked to use.

 

[Mangoose]

Where's the LP

 

[Average Manatee]

JK was the best SP. Simply great level design. To those saying that guns were more useful most of the time: No Shit. If Obi-Wan had a blaster and went into the death star guns blazing he probably could have taken out every stormtrooper there. The game kept a good balance and never made you too powerful. It made sense that the saber was a specialty weapon. Jedi charging head first into legions of enemies and being invincible is one of the worst things to happen to Star Wars.

JO just fell apart in the late game. Simply having the saber out gave you 100% damage reflection against most of the enemies. The only dangers other than other guys with sabers were falling into pits or failing mandatory stealth bullshit. Nar Shadaa level in Jedi Outcast was fine with me. It and the other jedi JO levels are good about keeping you on your toes and reminding you that you aren't an uber warrior. While the forced loss vs Desann was lame his reason for letting you live was one of the best ways to handle that situation I've seen, and tied in with the theme of Kyle being corrupted to the dark side very well. The saber combat vs jedi of course was much improved from JK, though the number of enemies thrown at you was a bit overdone IMO.

JA I'm kind of meh on. Missions felt too gimmicky and hand holding, plot felt weaker, and special sabers in SW have always been a sign of derp. Still a good game though.