Jeff Vogel on RPG difficulty

[Black Cat]

@ Clockwork Knight

That's outright insulting, nya.

@ Trithne

Yay, i was talking about that same stuff. I guess it's okay when it can be deactivated, but when forced upon the player it's, like, totally murder and angry thingies. What Ikaruga clone where you talking about? The only one of, like, those that i remember doing that is Vampire Rex, but as far as i know the player had no way to, like, shut it down and stuff.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Godhand is funny too. Gene says things depending on what you choose.

Easy - "What, do you want me to hold your hand, or something?"

Normal - "Didn't expect anything less from you"

hard - "That's more like it"

dunno if there's something higher than hard

 

[Emotional Vampire]

Yakuza for the PS2, iirc. It opens up "super easy" mode if you die enough times on easy.

 

[Mackerel]

BG example: "Beholder/Basalisk turns you to stone/disintegrates you!"

There were basilisks in Pool of Radiance too, I think.

And being a subject of a successful "hold person" spell (which every hostile cleric in every GB game casts all the time) is pretty much instadeath too, as long as there is a couple more enemies on the field.

Yup, there was a basilisk in the library of PoR.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

Yeah and he turned all the books in his room to stone. I remember you could interact with every section of the library except for the one with the Basilisk. The books made the same sound the ordinary walls make.

 

[Overweight Manatee]

If anyone played the The Matrix Path of Neo (and if you haven't: don't), it actually had a rather good difficulty selection system. You started out in a dream, had a large amount of the powers in the game available, and fought through ever increasing levels of opponents. Basically a trial by fire and the game recommended a difficulty depending on how well you did. Even if you wiped the floor with the hardest enemies in the game you still had to go through 2 hours of fucking tutorials though.

Unfortunately, the same system probably wouldn't work well for RPG's, which are more about planning and character customization rather then being able to pick up button mashing mechanics quick. It could probably be made to work for strategy and shooter games though.

Yakuza for the PS2, iirc. It opens up "super easy" mode if you die enough times on easy.

Funny thing is, IIRC the game gave you that option the third time you died. IN THE ENTIRE GAME. So I'm pretty sure everyone gets that thrown at them eventually, unless they beat the entire game without dieing more then 2 times. I played DMC3 recently, the game unlocked Easy difficulty for me when I was about 3/4ths the way through the game on very hard. Yeah, like I'm gonna pussy out at that point.

 

[Kaanyrvhok]

RTS with a gamepad

Madden does it too.

 

[Clockwork Knight]

Unfortunately, the same system probably wouldn't work well for RPG's, which are more about planning and character customization rather then being able to pick up button mashing mechanics quick. It could probably be made to work for strategy and shooter games though.

I remember Lufia (snes) starting with a lvl 97-98 party. You get to fight lots of strong enemies, get used to the system. And you kill the last bosses too.

After you finish that flashback(forward), you start playing as the lvl 1 runt with a kitchen knife.

 

[Emotional Vampire]

After you finish that flashback(forward)

wot

 

[Clockwork Knight]

 

[Damned Registrations]

Lufia 2 takes place before Lufia. At the begining of Lufia, you play through the final battle of Lufia 2.

 

[bhlaab]

So he basically promises to make normal easier and hard harder? Then why not just include an easy setting and be done with it?

People never pick easy mode, even if they think the game is too hard on normal. That's why more games call their difficulties "Normal" "Hard" "Harder" nowadays.

 

[Obongo]

Video games are leisure time expressions of adolescent power fantasies.

What about other games? Poker, chess, football? Are they also expressions of adolescent power fantasies? What makes video games so fundamentally different?

What he says is a bunch of poorly thought out crap, no wonder this man makes such obscure, unpopular games.

OK, Jeff. Listen. I`ll help you. "Too hard" is when a player doesn't know how to proceed in a game (most often it`s the result of the game rules being too complicated/unclear). "Too easy" is when the player knows how to proceed and it requires little or no skill at all (saving/reloading is NOT a skill).

BTW, this is what killed adventure games. They are too hard.

 

[Whisper]

Written by honest guy, who was famous for challenging games:
http://jeff-vogel.blogspot.com/2009/11/make-your-game-easy-then-make-it-easier.html


"When a player is on the default difficult level, has built his or her characters poorly, and is playing straight through the main storyline with mediocre tactics, that player should almost never be killed.

I can almost hear the heads of hardcore gamers imploding with impotent nerdrage. But seriously. If you have a problem with this, I think you're getting a lot of your fun from making other people have less fun.

Of course, a game should have harder difficulty levels. And, if a player chooses to opt-in on higher difficulty, they should be seriously nasty. But, when played on the default difficulty, the game should be accessible to your mom or average eight-year old".

He just said what big companies like Activison and EA are doing.

Look at much-mentioned Diablo 3. Why its close to impossible to die on Normal difficulty unless lag/unlucky string of events? "game should be accessible to your mom or average eight-year old" - that is why. Why it is called "Normal" is also beyond me, looks like trolling by Blizzard.

You cant even change difficulty to make it even look like challenging, so you are stuck with playing though game which is designed with moms and eight-year old kids in mind to even unlock somewhat harder (not much) next difficulty level.

Anyway keep supporting such game design, bros.

 

[Ulminati]

"Normal" is the new "Easy". News at 11.

 

[Whisper]

Making you play "Normal" before unlocking harder difficulty would look OK - since some games did this before - if this "Normal" wasn't trollishly easy.

 

[Ulminati]

You bought diablo 3, you deserve to get tastelessly raped. Fortunately pirates will fix it, or torchlight 2/path of exile will come out with a less shitty product.

 

[Whisper]

You bought diablo 3, you deserve to get tastelessly raped. Fortunately pirates will fix it, or torchlight 2/path of exile will come out with a less shitty product.

Its not Diablo 3 as only problem here.
Its just trend what most follow/will follow.

Depriving us of quality products.

And kinda insulting, because i know many players who are not unskilled or have problems with IQ/reflexes. Devs assuming most us do feels wrong.

 

[Ulminati]

Pirates will fix it. Or modders that'll let you unlock higher difficulties from the get-go. Just means there's no point in going out and buying games on release anymore.

The fact that you have to complete normal to unlock hell couldn't possibly come as a surprise though. Diablo 2 was exactly the same. And I never bothered with hell/nightmare back then because fuck Blizzard. I already killed diablo. I didn't need to go back to fighting zombies just to watch numbers on my gear get bigger.

 

[Whisper]

I am not arguing over semantics or terms. But by calling difficulty for kids&moms "Normal" - kinda shows who is target audience for game.
Because if game was for skilled/mature players then appropriate difficulty would be called "Normal".


I have nothing against moms&kids, but those same companies who produce games for them (like Diablio 3) blatantly lie about their target group, they are aiming game for.

 

[Nim]

Written by honest guy, who was famous for challenging games:

Spiderweb games challenging .

 

[Angthoron]

I am not arguing over semantics or terms. But by calling difficulty for kids&moms "Normal" - kinda shows who is target audience for game.
Because if game was for skilled/mature players then appropriate difficulty would be called "Normal".


I have nothing against moms&kids, but those same companies who produce games for them (like Diablio 3) blatantly lie about their target group, they are aiming game for.

I agree. There's nothing "Normal" in the new Normal difficulty. Why not call it "Casual"? I kinda liked how that's a difficulty option for Warlock, for one. Who's going to get upset about it, the player that's considering themselves casual?

I actually think that devs are part of the problem with their own lingo, looks like in their mind they consider the casual audience stupid, disgusting but pleasantly full of money, so let's call them something else.

 

[Nim]

I agree. There's nothing "Normal" in the new Normal difficulty. Why not call it "Casual"? I kinda liked how that's a difficulty option for Warlock, for one. Who's going to get upset about it, the player that's considering themselves casual?

I actually think that devs are part of the problem with their own lingo, looks like in their mind they consider the casual audience stupid, disgusting but pleasantly full of money, so let's call them something else.

Why not call it casual indeed. Maybe because a lot of players don't want to play on a difficulty called casual even if it would solve their struggles ? Just look at people on the spiderweb boards who struggle in normal but when told that they should go down to casual they rather not. Good luck getting through that mental block.

 

[Angthoron]

I agree. There's nothing "Normal" in the new Normal difficulty. Why not call it "Casual"? I kinda liked how that's a difficulty option for Warlock, for one. Who's going to get upset about it, the player that's considering themselves casual?

I actually think that devs are part of the problem with their own lingo, looks like in their mind they consider the casual audience stupid, disgusting but pleasantly full of money, so let's call them something else.

Why not call it casual indeed. Maybe because a lot of players don't want to play on a difficulty called casual even if it would solve their struggles ? Just look at people on the spiderweb boards who struggle in normal but when told that they should go down to casual they rather not. Good luck getting through that mental block.

Good point. Then rename Normal. It's not really a good description, makes a casual go "I'm not normal?" and click that and then bitch.

Casual - Challenging - Hard and various other combinations of those.

Hell, or even use descriptions like those from, say, Doom. They can't fit a longer description to their shitty games on an HD monitor, now? Maybe even -gasp- let the players know what the difficulty level differences entail so they know what they want to pick and what they will be most comfortable with in the end in a concrete way.

 

[Emily]

What is fun about walking trough friendly world, that you just go and whack moles, never feel risk vs reward. What is the point of that game? I couldn't imagine a worse and more boring way to play anything