Jeff Vogel reveals his new IP

[SkeleTony]

Not only is it not party-based but he went backwards to the 'humans only' thing?! Stupid. I get so sick of humans in fantasy RPGs. It is far worse than any tired cliche' I can imagine. Freaking boring.

I see nothing wrong with a humans-only game universe. I mean, it's not as if other "races" aren't just recycled versions of the same stuff we've seen before, with generally unrealistic and cliched societies. At least we know how humans operate.

It's a personal taste thing. I see and interact with humans in real life all day long. No interest in 'escaping' to a fantasy world of the same boring stuff.
I have no problem with "recycled" fantasy races(though familiar conventions do not necessarily mean the races themselves are unoriginal...there can be unique twists put on even crappy elves and shit).

I like my orcs and ogres and minotaurs and shit for PC races. Something infinitely more interesting in playing one of those over the boring humans.

 

[SkeleTony]

I see nothing wrong with a humans-only game universe. I mean, it's not as if other "races" aren't just recycled versions of the same stuff we've seen before, with generally unrealistic and cliched societies. At least we know how humans operate.

+1

I'd like to see more games with different distinct human cultures, preferably one or two empires and many different barbarian tribes (inspired by historical barbarian tribes, not Conan types running around half-naked and in leather undies).

Yeah that could be interesting also but even this is sort of incrementally heading towards what I said in my first post about races. A "race" in a RPG is a combination of species + culture. So if you have a type of human analogous to our historical 'Vikings', that has greater resistance to cold and intoxication, better skills with axes or shields or whatever, weaknesses to...I don't know, heat/fire, etc. then that is a step closer to what I was getting at.

 

[Turok]

I was about to say the same, however I must add that the indoors are disproportional to the furniture, too much empty space in between stuff.

I guess the game came from the memorys of the caracter, he remember everything like that, lot of empty space.

 

[bhlaab]

There's something awkward about the isometric perspective, but other than that a marked improvement

 

[Trash]

I wonder how he will implement a 'siege' mentality in the gameworld. A fragile empire that is besieged from all sides by ravenous hordes and decaying empires should have some interesting social characterisations going on. While at first sight the setting seems a bit dull it certainly does have potential if and when fleshed out nicely, which is exactly what Vogel excells at.

 

[BLOBERT]

ENJOY FAG PROTOCOL YOU CONSOLETARDS

 

[Abelon Blanchetourbe]

Why oh why does he keep using a treasure map shaped icon for healing spells ? Bugged me to no end in Avernum.

 

[Raghar]

I trust Vogel to make it more interesting and with better consistency/writing than DA: Origins.

As for decaying empire. He can use Israel as an inspiration. Theirs leaders did shitty things with excuse about future generations, however the future generation has different priorities than they had, and don't want to act as like shit as they did.

Or he can use some Indonesia example. A tribe driven by periodic overpopulation pressure threatens lands around.

That's if he has guts to describe something as harsh as the above.

 

[The Duke]

Being an indie developer leads to less restrictions to the possibility of innovating sometimes and taking either radically innovative directions or directions already tried and tested that were abandoned by the AAA so they could cater to wider audiences.

Sometimes yes but not overly so with Vogel. For example he might have made geneforge more of a scifi setting but was scared it might not sell enough so we got a medieval fantasy. Making games is his livelyhood and he won't risk it, he has his niche and audience and will keep on making the same old shit for that audience.

Not that I usually mind playing his games.

 

[rpgcodexusername]

 

[Xi]

I was about to say the same, however I must add that the indoors are disproportional to the furniture, too much empty space in between stuff.

Oh no! That will ruin your immersion bro! Fuck off.

 

[Martin]

If its on par with Avernum 6 and Geneforge 5 it will be worth it.
From the description in the original post it did sound...kinda bland.
Sort of like a simple and conservative compromise between the tried and true features and style of Geneforge and Avernum.

Oh well what it matters is the details and the way the world is developed along with the game and I like his style.


Vogel always does a decent job in developing a reasonably detailed world, factions and main characters mostly through text and small touches. His writing and ideas in general aren't great but they are adequate. Im not calling the man mediocre, I like his style and I like his games, but I wonder if he isnt holding back too much or if he didnt become too comfortable with his own ever recycled formulas.

I think he tries a little too hard to make his games "acessible" and that applies not only to the gameplay but to the writing in general, the setting, the characters etc. Enough detail and coherence to give a reasonable sense of immersion and keep the player interested but not exactly fascinated, a mature but not too mature approach and all that..

Indie or not I think Vogel has a fair deal of restrictions, alot of these he probably imposes himself. Not just out of fear for his business in general but also perhaps being too habituated to the needs and preferences of his more loyal clients, or at least the more vocal of these.

It's like he carved out a niche with his talent but now his talent his limited by the same niche. I hope with this new series he will at least take more time, care and effort with each particular sequel so in 3-4 years more or less we are left with a trilogy and not 6 episodes with an engine upgrade in the middle.

 

[SuicideBunny]

I think he tries a little too hard to make his games "acessible" and that applies not only to the gameplay but to the writing in general, the setting, the characters etc. Enough detail and coherence to give a reasonable sense of immersion and keep the player interested but not exactly fascinated, a mature but not too mature approach and all that..

his writing is mediocre, but by not trying too hard to make it uberawesome he actually makes it work nicely and manages to make it both atmospheric and unobtrusive, unlike, say, games like dragon age or fallout 3, where as soon as some atmosphere builds up, it is completely destroyed by something incredibly inane.

 

[Martin]

I think he tries a little too hard to make his games "acessible" and that applies not only to the gameplay but to the writing in general, the setting, the characters etc. Enough detail and coherence to give a reasonable sense of immersion and keep the player interested but not exactly fascinated, a mature but not too mature approach and all that..

his writing is mediocre, but by not trying too hard to make it uberawesome he actually makes it work nicely and manages to make it both atmospheric and unobtrusive, unlike, say, games like dragon age or fallout 3, where as soon as some atmosphere builds up, it is completely destroyed by something incredibly inane.

lol oh no sure, most if not all of his writing is better than fallout 3, and like I said its coherent. Like I said I like his style too I just have the impression from my experience with his games that he could do better, not just in characters and plot but developing the gameworlds culture, politics, society, religion etc. Never tried Dragon Age.


The more inane parts in fallout 3 were sadly for the most part the results of trying to make some characters RLY COOL AND INTERESTING THAT I CAN LIEK RELATE WITH OR RESPECT OR FEAR OR WTFEVAH.. or somehow funny or endearing...this for both 18-whatever year olds as well as 13-17 year olds.

Nevermind who it was marketed for. They always target both the kids and the young adults and whomever else. This shit pattern is the fatal mistake of many mainstream titles that need alot of writing.

 

[SuicideBunny]

imo the most inane part of fo3 other than using skillcheks in dialogues solely for skipping parts of quest was their constant spamming of human remains in kitchens. every raider outpost had human butcheries, every random ruin had human butcheries, it was really stupid, and got so tiresome after a while that it not only killed the atmosphere but also made that real cannibals sidestory kinda moronic...

 

[Clockwork Knight]

I thought the raiders hanged human remains on their outposts to scare away enemies. Though they are also cannibals.

 

[SuicideBunny]

so, why would they hang human remains inside, in kitchens no less?

 

[Clockwork Knight]

they are also cannibals

 

[Martin]

I think the point is that in Fallout 3 cannibalism wasn't tastefully done.

 

[nomask7]

IMO, Jeff is a master of simple and effective description. He merely benefits from low-accuracy graphix.

And who wouldn't want to play a game that's called The Black Fortress?!

 

[syllopsium]

If you read Jeff's interviews, he's stated more than once he was burnt by Nethergate. It did make money but not as much as his more generic games. Here's hoping Nethergate Resurrection did better.

In some ways he has room to innovate a little, but he's also making sure his bills get paid.

Graphics do look a bit better than previous games, although really it's more of an incremental improvement over Avernum VI.

At least there's someone out there creating slightly different games that actually work as intended.

 

[Sceptic]

If you read Jeff's interviews, he's stated more than once he was burnt by Nethergate. It did make money but not as much as his more generic games. Here's hoping Nethergate Resurrection did better.

IIRC it didn't. It wasn't as much of a disaster as Nethergate, because he already had the engine AND the game design all there, so cost of making it was very very low, but he said it didn't sell anywhere near as much as the Avernum/Geneforge released around the same time.

 

[syllopsium]

IIRC it didn't. It wasn't as much of a disaster as Nethergate, because he already had the engine AND the game design all there, so cost of making it was very very low, but he said it didn't sell anywhere near as much as the Avernum/Geneforge released around the same time.

Damn. OK, so the engine was still old even with the revised version, but it's a pity that people still don't like to go for something a bit different.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

Which is too bad because I liked the Nethergate setting much better than the Exile.

 

[The Duke]

IIRC it didn't. It wasn't as much of a disaster as Nethergate, because he already had the engine AND the game design all there, so cost of making it was very very low, but he said it didn't sell anywhere near as much as the Avernum/Geneforge released around the same time.

Damn. OK, so the engine was still old even with the revised version, but it's a pity that people still don't like to go for something a bit different.

Resurrection was like a Nethergate module for BoA. The original was better.