Jeff Vogel vs Pillars of Eternity

[PrettyDeadman]

Chris Avellone is right.

 

[fantadomat]

Vogel is right on this one,i don't remember a single think from Tranny and Tides of Numenera.I remember reading like 30 minutes some idiotic monologue that was just some guy telling me to go and kill bunch of idiots.There is a lot of useless fluff in both of this games.Also everyone is talking in long expository info dumps.I once imagined how it will look in real live,it was like going to a shop to buy bottle of wine and the shopkeeper begins telling you his live story,his sexuality and his political views for 20 minutes and finishes with "What can it do for you?".After i tell him what wine i like he tells me the history of said wine,its sexuality and its political views for another 20 minutes.It is ok to have a lot of words in game as long as they are to the point and say something interesting.

 

[Quillon]

People have been complaining about lore dumps in PoE since march 25, 2015 but I don't remember anyone complained about wordiness in CC till JV and this is what's it about. Suddenly everyone's acting like they just realized actual game's over expository wordiness is cringeworthy.

 

[Sentinel]

People have been complaining about lore dumps in PoE since march 25, 2015 but I don't remember anyone complained about wordiness in CC till JV and this is what's it about. Suddenly everyone's acting like they just realized actual game's over expository wordiness is cringeworthy.

Didn't the local ratman make an article about it last year, way before JV decided to copy paste it?

 

[PrettyDeadman]

WTF, I was complaining about lore dumps from much earlier than march 25, 2015. Clearly you were not paying attention.

 

[gaussgunner]

They've already shot their lore load all over PoE1, so I expect they'll be pushing rope in 2.

FTFY.

 

[luj1]

Escape from the Pit & Geneforge shits on this entire hipster franchise in at least 3 things,

• writing
• world building
• design

Ofcourse that doesn't sell. His games are ugly and too hard for your average moron + lacking accessibility for peasants and LGBTQ+ romance options.

 

[Lhynn]

LOL what? Your barely knew anything about your intro companions, you can't say that they had potential and were more interesting than the later companions.

It doesnt matter what you knew about them you filthy apologist. What matters is what you went through with them.
Those characters helped you heal your diarrhea, faced a whole tribe with you, survived a magical storm that no one has ever survived before with you and went through some creepy ruins with very stupid traps with you. Not to mention the girl actually gave a shit about who you were and were you came from.
Had the game been as good as the intro it wouldnt have mattered, but the game was complete garbage and the only characters in the game that went through something half interesting with you die for no reason. It was just a waste.
I especially liked the fact that they could die or leave if you fucked up, which doesnt happen again in the whole game and which actually made you give half a flying fuck.

 

[Sizzle]

business idea: deaf-mute companions with whom you don't communicate using writing or gestures
they stay fucking deaf-mute

Soooo, you want Christine? :D

 

[PrettyDeadman]

How did Obsidian went from this to pillars of eternity/tyrany?

 

[Quillon]

Had few basic animations due to engine limitations.

 

[Fenix]

Jeff Vogel is right.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

Another examole of New Vegas superior writing syle:




Pillars of Eternity a simply not worth the time of educated european men with strong french accents to make videos about, the only people doing analysis of poe on the internet are probably american atutists who like to talk with children and live in their parents basements i.e. lost cause.

 

[Lhynn]

Always fun to see Infinitron butthurt.

 

[Infinitron]

...he says, as he praises a DLC that infamously starts out with a huge exposition dump

 

[Fry]

Pillars of Eternity a simply not worth the time of educated european men with strong french accents to make videos about

You didn't search youtube very well.

 

[Sizzle]

...he says, as he praises a DLC that infamously starts out with a huge exposition dump

Pales in comparison to the one from Old World Blues :D

 

[Quillon]

...he says, as he praises a DLC that infamously starts out with a huge exposition dump

Pales in comparison to the one from Old World Blues :D

I don't understand MCA on NV DLC word limitations. Says they had to be creative to use less words but you start the DLCs, especially that one with half hour conversations. Granted that was funny but rest of the DLC was empty compared to the beginning.

 

[ore clover]

the only people doing analysis of poe on the internet are probably american atutists who like to talk with children and live in their parents basements i.e. lost cause.

Yeah, like this guy:

Spoiler

Doesn't even have a 60 fps webcam. I mean really...

 

[Chaotic_Heretic]

the only people doing analysis of poe on the internet are probably american atutists who like to talk with children and live in their parents basements i.e. lost cause.

Yeah, like this guy:

Spoiler

Doesn't even have a 60 fps webcam. I mean really...

He is a Kucked Konsole Kasual. He used gamepad instead of keyboard mouse for a FP action game.

 

[Fry]

He is a Kucked Konsole Kasual. He used gamepad instead of keyboard mouse for a FP action game.

Dumbass, E3 demos are very controlled. It's quite likely he used the controller because the devs had it set up that way and keyboard commands aren't even implemented in the build they were showing.

 

[PrettyDeadman]

...he says, as he praises a DLC that infamously starts out with a huge exposition dump

Pales in comparison to the one from Old World Blues :D

Yeah, that's exactly why New Vegas is so much superior to POE.
You actually interact with characters and they have something to say to you unlike character from POE who have zero things to say which is why they are citing irrelevant articles from a made up encyclopedia about things noone cares about.

 

[Sizzle]

...he says, as he praises a DLC that infamously starts out with a huge exposition dump

Pales in comparison to the one from Old World Blues :D

Yeah, that's exactly why New Vegas is so much superior to POE.
You actually interact with characters and they have something to say to you unlike character from POE who have zero things to say which is why they are citing irrelevant articles from a made up encyclopedia about things noone cares about.

While I agree this is much better written than practically anything in PoE, the problem here is that, no matter how interesting the dialogue is - it still takes half an hour to get through it all.

It was fascinating the first time I played through it, but I doubt the second (or any subsequent) time will be as engrossing. And even if you just click next-next-next without reading any of it, it will still take at least several minutes to get through it all.

And this is not some optional dialogue you can easily not engage in - it's a mandatory lengthy conversation right at the very beginning of the DLC. Even Avellone admitted he should have designed it dfifferently.

 

[Azarkon]

All lore is not created equal.

It's not just the presence of lore dumps that is obstructive. It's the fact that the lore is fucking boring. I know we like to tell our children these days that writing is subjective, and so you should never feel bad even when nobody likes your writing, because they just don't get it. But that's bullshit. That's the sort of white lie that a society tells itself over and over again as it declines. Writers should be held to task for writing garbage that only a mother can enjoy. It's fucking shameful for reviewers to sit there and compare the verbal diarrhea that passes for CRPG lore writing these days to Planescape: Torment.

"A territory comprised of the forest southeast of the Bael River, populated indigenously by a group of loosely affiliated tribes collectively known as Glanfathans, and governed by a council of its six most powerful tribes. Eir Glanfath is home to a large number of ruined Engwithan sites, which Glanfathans hold sacred. The ruins have been at the center of a number of large-scale conflicts with Dyrwoodan colonists, whose settlements often encroach on Glanfathan territory and who frequently seek to plunder the ruins for their relics."

One problem with this passage is WHO THE FUCK CARES? The criticism is valid.

But the deeper problem, the problem that lies at the ruined foundations of modern CRPG writing, is WHY IS THIS INTERESTING?

In other words, why do we pay to read this generic description of a generic fantasy society? I can write this. YOU can write this. A 15 year old high school student with a C in creative writing can write this. It takes no effort and no talent to come up with "a group of tribes ... governed by the six most powerful tribes ... has conflicts with ... other people who plunder their lands." It's not just about why would I ever care - because the reason I don't care, is because it's NOT INTERESTING.

It's like reading history. Not History, which is full of heroic tales and scandals, but dry, record keeping history, like "in the year 175, the king went on a hunt in the eastern forest, and came back with three boars. The castle had a feast. Everyone enjoyed the roasted boar." The 0.0001% of the population that enjoys reading the latter description only enjoys it because it is a record of actual past events. But fantasy writing is IMAGINARY. It is NOT fact. It records NOTHING. So you had better make damn sure your writing is a hell of a lot more interesting than that.

 

[Fairfax]

MCA just retweeted the article.