Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Josh Sawyer is taking a break from directing games

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Sawyer seems like a very capable manager-type, but based on his track record, it doesn't seem like he has the artist part of it. To make great games, like any other art, you need a certain vision and level of creativity. Now, in his case, I don't know exactly what happened at Black Isle/Obsidian, maybe he was just constrained by circumstances and upper management every time (forced to use other companies' engines, forced to make nostalgia games, etc), but we just don't see anything in his history that shows that he can produce high level innovative stuff. His very best game, F:NV, was good because they essentially took Bethesda's open world formula/engine, and replaced some retarded parts (lore, writing, characters, etc) with their patented strong-points. That's not exactly proof of anything.

He might be better off working with someone more artistic, and handling the logistics/management part of it, while deferring on creative decisions.
Yeah,he is pretty good game/level designer and manager. But when it come down to writing and imagination he is really bad. Or maybe he doesn't care about rtwp games and wanted to get it over fast as possible. That makes me wonder what their new game is going to be. He said that he is going to be a side kick in the development of that game because he doesn't have any xp in the genre. Soo it won't be rtwp or postapocalyptic fps.
 
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,103
he was never put in charge of anything that had the potential to be highly innovative. So his track record doesn't constitute proof either way.


An artistic vision requires freedom. The things Josh likes aren't exactly mass compatible.

That's somewhat true, and I did allude to this in my post, but at the same time, he was in high level roles at Obsidian and Black Isle for a while. While any artist will have to compromise and produce crap at time, they usually manage to get something good made once in a while. Surely with his level of leverage, especially after New Vegas came out, he could've gotten a creative project stamped by Feargus & Co, or at a different company, if he really wanted it. So the fact that he is perpetually stuck on these soul-less games says something as well.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
he was never put in charge of anything that had the potential to be highly innovative. So his track record doesn't constitute proof either way.


An artistic vision requires freedom. The things Josh likes aren't exactly mass compatible.

That's somewhat true, and I did allude to this in my post, but at the same time, he was in high level roles at Obsidian and Black Isle for a while. While any artist will have to compromise and produce crap at time, they usually manage to get something good made once in a while. Surely with his level of leverage, especially after New Vegas came out, he could've gotten a creative project stamped by Feargus & Co, or at a different company, if he really wanted it. So the fact that he is perpetually stuck on these soul-less games says something as well.

"artist"

"something good"

Saying he never did anything good on any project he was involved in is stretching the limits of our knowledge of what he has done exactly. Thing is, of people in the actual art departments, no one expects the entire product to reflect the quality of their work.

He's been saying what he would like to do for a while now, and those plans have probably been swirling around in his head for some time. The historical RPG à la Darklands idea, for example. And yet, no such thing has materialized at Obsidian. What leverage he had, and if he'd even use it, is an interesting question. Feargus is a smiley scumbag, little doubt about that in my mind by now.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2018
Messages
50,754
Codex Year of the Donut
he was never put in charge of anything that had the potential to be highly innovative. So his track record doesn't constitute proof either way.


An artistic vision requires freedom. The things Josh likes aren't exactly mass compatible.

That's somewhat true, and I did allude to this in my post, but at the same time, he was in high level roles at Obsidian and Black Isle for a while. While any artist will have to compromise and produce crap at time, they usually manage to get something good made once in a while. Surely with his level of leverage, especially after New Vegas came out, he could've gotten a creative project stamped by Feargus & Co, or at a different company, if he really wanted it. So the fact that he is perpetually stuck on these soul-less games says something as well.

"artist"

"something good"

Saying he never did anything good on any project he was involved in is stretching the limits of our knowledge of what he has done exactly. Thing is, of people in the actual art departments, no one expects the entire product to reflect the quality of their work.

He's been saying what he would like to do for a while now, and those plans have probably been swirling around in his head for some time. The historical RPG à la Darklands idea, for example. And yet, no such thing has materialized at Obsidian. What leverage he had, and if he'd even use it, is an interesting question. Feargus is a smiley scumbag, little doubt about that in my mind by now.
he's going to fuck bitches and snort coke after he gets his severance package.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
he was never put in charge of anything that had the potential to be highly innovative. So his track record doesn't constitute proof either way.


An artistic vision requires freedom. The things Josh likes aren't exactly mass compatible.

That's somewhat true, and I did allude to this in my post, but at the same time, he was in high level roles at Obsidian and Black Isle for a while. While any artist will have to compromise and produce crap at time, they usually manage to get something good made once in a while. Surely with his level of leverage, especially after New Vegas came out, he could've gotten a creative project stamped by Feargus & Co, or at a different company, if he really wanted it. So the fact that he is perpetually stuck on these soul-less games says something as well.

"artist"

"something good"

Saying he never did anything good on any project he was involved in is stretching the limits of our knowledge of what he has done exactly. Thing is, of people in the actual art departments, no one expects the entire product to reflect the quality of their work.

He's been saying what he would like to do for a while now, and those plans have probably been swirling around in his head for some time. The historical RPG à la Darklands idea, for example. And yet, no such thing has materialized at Obsidian. What leverage he had, and if he'd even use it, is an interesting question. Feargus is a smiley scumbag, little doubt about that in my mind by now.
he's going to fuck bitches and snort coke after he gets his severance package.

and why not. I'm like, either the man gets to do what he wants to do in games so he can do it well, or else let him do whatever with his life.


Contrary to Chris Avellone, in his case I'd prefer it if someone actively put him out of his misery already.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Sawyer seems like a very capable manager-type, but based on his track record, it doesn't seem like he has the artist part of it. To make great games, like any other art, you need a certain vision and level of creativity. Now, in his case, I don't know exactly what happened at Black Isle/Obsidian, maybe he was just constrained by circumstances and upper management every time (forced to use other companies' engines, forced to make nostalgia games, etc), but we just don't see anything in his history that shows that he can produce high level innovative stuff. His very best game, F:NV, was good because they essentially took Bethesda's open world formula/engine, and replaced some retarded parts (lore, writing, characters, etc) with their patented strong-points. That's not exactly proof of anything.

He might be better off working with someone more artistic, and handling the logistics/management part of it, while deferring on creative decisions.

He made Joshua Graham, which is a p. artistic and nuanced take on religious zealotry.
 
Self-Ejected

Sacred82

Self-Ejected
Dumbfuck
Joined
Jun 7, 2013
Messages
2,957
Location
Free Village
arguing about any single thing we know he did is pointless as long as we don't know literally everything he's ever done. If we're still talking about him never having done anything worthwhile, that is.
 

Immortal

Arcane
In My Safe Space
Joined
Sep 13, 2014
Messages
5,062
Location
Safe Space - Don't Bulli
Joshua Graham as the burned man is a much better character off stage than in the person. The story of the burned man is actually better suited to characterize Kaiser than Joshua Himself. I wish I never played that DLC.

It's by far the weakest / most boring DLC.. I pretty much skip it every playthrough.

The burned man is much cooler from his actions / story than meeting in-game.
 

Latro

Arcane
Joined
Jun 5, 2013
Messages
7,345
Location
Vita umbratilis
Sure we could make money just by putting your name on our games

Sawyer is not a 'name'.

Literally and figuratively wrong. In fact, by now Sawyer is not just a name, but a face.

"The face of romance" apparently.

Achievement_triple_crown_solo.jpg
looks like an avatar for the village idiot
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
That's not 'balanced' that's the truth. His career is Obsidian. He started as a community manager and ended up leading major projects, but outside Obsidian's door he is still 'just' a community manager. He doesn't have any advanced coding skills that we no of and certainly no writing skills. Having last directed a commercial failure wouldn't help either. The best he could hope for would be senior game tester or contracted work as an external producer.
Dude, if Colin Mccomb, third rate writer, landed a job of "narrative designer" after being responsible for a flop with an awful designed narrative, Sawyer in comparison will have it easy.:lol: Actually, Larian would immensely profit from such hire, despite I disagreeing with Sawyer ideas, he is certain better than the shit throwing baboons Larian has for game designers.
 

FreeKaner

Prophet of the Dumpsterfire
Joined
Mar 28, 2015
Messages
6,908
Location
Devlet-i ʿAlīye-i ʿErdogānīye
Divos2's combat design decisions are awful. Its itemisation is worse than that of a MMO, it has forced round-robin, it has no depth whatsoever in character progression. Its encounter design is just waiting for you to walk into an area and spawning skeletons on high ground. Its hp and stat bloat is worse than a modern hack & slash. That thing is an abomination systems wise.
 
Last edited:

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,394
I don't see why Larian would break something that didn't need fixing.
Your naivity brings tears to my eyes.:lol:

But seriously, one day I believed Larian were bros before this:
:betrayed:
Play D:OS 2 and see with your own eyes.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,170
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Larian shitty loot design has been around since divine divinity.

The least worst offender, iirc was eco draconis which, with really the haziest memory have some cool truly unique items.

In dos 1 they tu4rn it up a notch and in dos 2 they fucking blast it to the stratosphere with level scaling and number bloat on top of that too.
 

fantadomat

Arcane
Edgy Vatnik Wumao
Joined
Jun 2, 2017
Messages
37,083
Location
Bulgaria
Larian shitty loot design has been around since divine divinity.

The least worst offender, iirc was eco draconis which, with really the haziest memory have some cool truly unique items.

In dos 1 they tu4rn it up a notch and in dos 2 they fucking blast it to the stratosphere with level scaling and number bloat on top of that too.
Yeah,but unlike DOS games Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity are good games. The writing was not bad and they are oozing atmosphere.
 

HoboForEternity

sunset tequila
Patron
Joined
Mar 27, 2016
Messages
9,170
Location
Disco Elysium
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Larian shitty loot design has been around since divine divinity.

The least worst offender, iirc was eco draconis which, with really the haziest memory have some cool truly unique items.

In dos 1 they tu4rn it up a notch and in dos 2 they fucking blast it to the stratosphere with level scaling and number bloat on top of that too.
Yeah,but unlike DOS games Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity are good games. The writing was not bad and they are oozing atmosphere.
lol, combat wise and system wise, divine divinity is shit game.it is just diablo clone with uninspired shitty long ass dungeons and plethora of trash mobs.

Original sin, flawed as they are, are miles ahead of divine and beyond divinity.

Atmosphere, divine divinity is pretty good, and i love it. Tbh i cant exactly describe what i love about DD, because it had shit combat, shit dungeon. Some quest are good and the humor strikes pretty well. Objetively, the core design, combat and encounter of DOS are vastly superior, it is just the piled up small, but shit design that they added unironically
 

Lycra Suit

Prophet
Possibly Retarded
Joined
Sep 6, 2016
Messages
1,842
Location
Political refugee in Canada
Well I'm sad to hear Larian jumped the Shark with their games. Looks like my intuition about them specifically hiring washed up losers was correct after all.
 

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom