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Just completed Dragon Age: Origins

Self-Ejected

Lilura

RPG Codex Dragon Lady
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Messages
5,274
But BG city is marked clearly on your world map when you exit Candlekeep. I doubt many ppl back in the day needed a guide for the plot-critical path. It's as simple as they come.

It's also worth noting that a lot of ppl who played BG had come off Fallout and other AD&D RPGs, and before that likely a few point and click adventure games, so they would not have had much trouble. The current gen would be coming off Bethesda popamoles; hence my remark.
 
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TheHeroOfTime

Arcane
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
2,876
Location
S-pain
But BG city is marked clearly on your world map when you exit Candlekeep. I doubt many ppl back in the day needed a guide for the plot-critical path. It's as simple as they come.

You're talking about current gamers so...

xW2jQMe.jpg


:M
 

the_shadow

Arcane
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,179
It's almost as bad as a mage in Baldur's Gate not being able to wear a helmet. Doing arcane magic must make your head swell up or something.

That's actually a reasonable abstraction. It came from the idea that magic users would spend all their time in libraries/labs, and thus be weak and frail, unable to wear armor. It's a simplification of course, and not fully realistic, but it's reasonable and enforces balance. Rogues using huge weapons on the other hand goes against pretty much everything, logic, balance, etc.

That would be like arguing that rogues using huge weapons for sneak attacks is a reasonable abstraction since they spend all their time learning how to sneak, therefore they are able to creep around with even a 20kg maul.
 

Sykar

Arcane
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
11,297
Location
Turn right after Alpha Centauri
But BG city is marked clearly on your world map when you exit Candlekeep. I doubt many ppl back in the day needed a guide for the plot-critical path. It's as simple as they come.

You're talking about current gamers so...

xW2jQMe.jpg


:M

The horror of having no quest compass with fat fancy markers blinking above the objective.

:troll:

P.S.: I finished Super Metroid three times, because I wanted to get the "best" ending. :bounce:
 

boot

Prophet
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Bartow, FL
Because the enemy variety sucks, the battle system sucks and the exploration suck.

In short they just suck and really expose how shitty DAO's battle system is.

The combat is as poor as it gets, but at least you are doing hardcore gay warden stuff. Broodmother is the only truly disturbing, evil thing in this entire grim dark fantasy, and you end the section by... giving that bitch a c section

:fuuyeah:

It's not so bad.
 

ERYFKRAD

Barbarian
Patron
Joined
Sep 25, 2012
Messages
28,236
Strap Yourselves In Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag. Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
That would be like arguing that rogues using huge weapons for sneak attacks is a reasonable abstraction since they spend all their time learning how to sneak, therefore they are able to creep around with even a 20kg maul.
Ever heard of Oinkbane, by the way?
 

Jimmious

Arcane
Patron
Joined
May 18, 2015
Messages
5,132
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
DA:O was p. decent and actually at the time it came out it gave me great hope... If they had build on it and improved areas of the game they could have made something really good eventually.
However as we saw with the next two.... They redefined the meaning of :decline:
 

Hobo Elf

Arcane
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
13,997
Location
Platypus Planet
Joined
Dec 17, 2013
Messages
5,103
Current gen gamers would probably get stuck in Candlekeep prologue, and need a wiki.

The god of codex Avellone himself got stuck on Arcanum wolves, which weren't even tough. Can't imagine him dealing with those BG1 wolves in the first zone east of Candlekeep. Those wolves could wreck a low level party.

That would be like arguing that rogues using huge weapons for sneak attacks is a reasonable abstraction since they spend all their time learning how to sneak, therefore they are able to creep around with even a 20kg maul.

You can argue anything, which is how lawyers make a living. But what I argued was logical, and what you said was :M.
 

the_shadow

Arcane
Joined
Dec 30, 2011
Messages
1,179
That would be like arguing that rogues using huge weapons for sneak attacks is a reasonable abstraction since they spend all their time learning how to sneak, therefore they are able to creep around with even a 20kg maul.

You can argue anything, which is how lawyers make a living. But what I argued was logical, and what you said was :M.

My line of thinking was no less logical than claiming that mages are too weak to wear helmets because they spend all their time studying. If you're OK with mages not being able to wear a helmet, then you should be OK with rogues using 20kg mauls for sneak attacks.
 

boot

Prophet
Joined
Dec 20, 2015
Messages
1,016
Location
Bartow, FL
decided to revisit Dragon Age.

It's good. The most surprising thing to me is the depth of character building and party combat, you have a lot of room to build your character and develop a synergistic party.

As an example:

playing through with a dual wield Berserker/Reaver. Planning to make Morrigan a blood mage that casts from Warden's massive HP pool (pushing his DMG even higher), effectively turning all surrounding enemies into fuel for spells through the Devour talent (Reaver can replenish HP from corpses). Decided to keep him as Sword/dagger rather than sword/sword, as the slower attack speed wasn't worth the higher damage seen while using abilities. Has lowest possible attack speed (.7 for sword/dagger), as well as +13 damage per hit (using dual striking, this bonus applies to both strikes, making it more like +26) and this is before factoring in damage from Reaver sustainables, runes, songs. Has very low stamina as running all the sustainables that make this possible is taxing. Gets around this through use of the Deathblow ability (Recover stamina upon killing enemy). Still have 2 party slots to build on this character.

There's much more depth here than I remember. Tuning party members to compliment build choices, selecting the ones best suited for upcoming combat encounters using meta knowledge, tweaking party tactics so combats proceed smoothly. It's like an rpg game. And that niggling thought that you could have further optimized the build or the party, somehow. That's a good sign.

It's a Bioware game, but it doesn't disgust me as much as I remember. Companions can all be killed or told to move along whenever you like. Main quest lines all offer you a chance to define your character. Some of the dialogue is surprisingly sharp, many of the minor voice actors did well to bring the world to life (try asking the Templar guarding the door in the Mage Origin why you can't leave). The non combat part of the game is overall solid, at times even manages to be compelling. The biggest flaw is the bloat- the ton of filler combat and generic loot. They borrowed heavily from MMOs and that hurts it. This game does truly feel like a grind at times.

The DLC areas are probably the best designed parts of the game. Short dungeon crawls with interesting premises, full of good loot, a few major fights, and a satisfying dose of c&c at the end to wrap it all up. Had they designed the rest of the game this tightly I think it would be remembered more favorably. Too much 'meh' content, but there is a decent game in there.

Better than PoE/10
 
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Falksi

Arcane
Joined
Feb 14, 2017
Messages
10,538
Location
Nottingham
I decided to revisit Dragon Age.

It's pretty good. The most surprising thing to me is the depth of character building and party combat. As an example:

Currently playing through with a dual wield Berserker/Reaver. Planning to make Morrigan a blood mage that casts from Warden's massive HP pool (pushing his DMG even higher), effectively turning all surrounding enemies into fuel for spells through the Devour talent (Reaver can replenish HP from corpses). Decided to keep him as Sword/dagger rather than sword/sword, as the slower attack speed wasn't worth the higher damage seen while using abilities. Has lowest possible attack speed (.7 for sword/dagger), as well as +13 damage per hit (using dual striking, this bonus applies to both strikes, making it more like +26) and this is before factoring in damage from Reaver sustainables, runes, etc. ,but has very low stamina as running all the sustainables that make this possible is taxing. Gets around this through use of the Deathblow ability (Recover stamina upon killing enemy). To top it all off he has a great stun that seems to work on everything.

I could go on. Tuning party members to compliment build choices, selecting the ones best suited for upcoming combat encounters using meta knowledge, tweaking party tactics so combats proceed smoothly. And that niggling thought that you could have further optimized the build or the party, somehow.

I'm having fun. It's a Bioware game all the way to the bone, but it doesn't disgust me as much as I remember. Companions can all be killed or told to move along whenever you like, the main quest lines all offer you a chance to flesh out (or larp) your character, and each playthrough manages to feel different thanks to all the C&C + Origin story. I don't care much for C&C, bad meme imo, but it's done well here. They just keep throwing it at you until it sticks, and suddenly you're larping as you're very own Warden. (I think my definition of larping is turning down good loot + exp for feels/ending slides).

It's not original or innovative, not even really that complex, but I think it is far more good than bad. My gripes are relatively minor (Level scaled loot is an abomination, notice board quests are bad filler, and it's all very bland. cities are lifeless, probably should have been left out). The DLC areas are probably the best designed parts of the game. Short dungeon crawls with an interesting premise, full of good loot, a few major fights, and a satisfying dose of c&c at the end to wrap it all up. Had they designed more of the rest of the game this way I think it would be remembered more favorably. Too much 'meh' content makes the game feel awfully bland at times, but not enough to say it's bad.


Brilliant summary. I loved DA:O and, whilst flawed, it should have provided a foundation to build more modern RPGs on.
Maybe i
 

polo

Magister
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
1,737
Loved it when it came out in 2009, tried to play it again last year and :despair:
 

JarlFrank

I like Thief THIS much
Patron
Joined
Jan 4, 2007
Messages
33,050
Location
KA.DINGIR.RA.KI
Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It would've been a good game if encounter design consisted of anything other than the exact same generic trash mob encounter copypasted 100 times
 

Beastro

Arcane
Joined
May 11, 2015
Messages
7,938
Game has a great 2-3 first hours, then falls appart.

No it doesn't, it suffers from the usual Bioware boring and restricted opening that you need to spend hours working through. Once you get to the world map it does become enjoyable.
 

Krivol

Magister
Joined
Apr 21, 2012
Messages
1,951
Location
Potatoland aka Prussia
Good? Really? Plot lazy written , most bizzare traitor ever, and well, you can fight with him being a blood-mage (next to the whole fucking court) and no-one would give a fuck. Camera is shitty, dialogues are boring, your companions are meh and game have built-in DLC commercials everywhere.

Oh, and standard Bioware choices: be good, you will get a quest because you are good, be mean, and you will get the quest because someone is affraid of you.

If this game is good then E.T. is godlike.
 

Commissar Draco

Codexia Comrade Colonel Commissar
Patron
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
20,856
Location
Привислинский край
Insert Title Here Strap Yourselves In Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Divinity: Original Sin 2
its less shit than any Biowhore game which came next; Cant really compare to AoD or Underrail but its enjoyable at some moments unlike those SJW pumped abominations we get now... Frack you faggots make Commissar want to install the game and play as :obviously: Dorf Noble again.
 

RepHope

Savant
Joined
Apr 27, 2017
Messages
400
its less shit than any Biowhore game which came next; Cant really compare to AoD or Underrail but its enjoyable at some moments unlike those SJW pumped abominations we get now... Frack you faggots make Commissar want to install the game and play as :obviously: Dorf Noble again.
Didn't Hepler write the Dorf Origins? How the fuck did that happen, both of those origins were more interesting than the main storyline. The Human Noble Origin did have some great payoff towards the ending when you killed Howe and got to cuck Loghain out of his throne and his daughter.
 

pippin

Guest
But BG city is marked clearly on your world map when you exit Candlekeep. I doubt many ppl back in the day needed a guide for the plot-critical path. It's as simple as they come.

You're talking about current gamers so...

xW2jQMe.jpg


:M


do you realize these are probably mostly 12 yo kids?

it's still telling, but i'd cut them some slack because of that
 
Joined
Sep 7, 2013
Messages
6,165
PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Codex 2016 - The Age of Grimoire Serpent in the Staglands Bubbles In Memoria A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
P.S.: I finished Super Metroid three times, because I wanted to get the "best" ending. :bounce:

C&C done right. If only more developers had lifted from this clearly inspired design.


On another subject, how does anyone get stuck in Super Metroid in the era of YouTube?

Didn't Hepler write the Dorf Origins? How the fuck did that happen, both of those origins were more interesting than the main storyline. The Human Noble Origin did have some great payoff towards the ending when you killed Howe and got to cuck Loghain out of his throne and his daughter.

Anora is best gurl.
 

pippin

Guest
That "c&c" in Super Metroid was more of an easter egg.... just like Samus in Spandex was one in the first game.
 

Darkman

Educated
Joined
Jul 6, 2016
Messages
49
DAO is one of those games that is greater than the sum of its parts.


Story is cliche but solid. Evil band of monsters come to murder everybody but the races are too wraped up in petty political nonsense to band together to fight a common enemy. Typical fantasy stuff. The characters are mostly believable and pretty interesting though. Lots of replay value with so many different origins. Ostagar is really boring to play through every time though. Areas like the fade and Deep roads seriously drag on and are the lowest points of the game, but the Fade was interesting for spicing up the gameplay and the idea of it was really interesting even if it wasn't implicated well. The Arl of Redcliffe quest line and the landsmeets were the highlights of the game. Having several options of resolving the situation and having it tie into several other quest lines make these two the most interesting parts of the game by far.

Class balance is horrid. Class balance in single player RPGs is usually the last thing to be expected but it doesn't seem like they even tried. warriors and to a lesser extent rogues are extremely bland, one dimensional and weak compared to mages. They have only a handful of active skills to put on their hot bars compared to mages but a huge chunk of their abilities are passive.

Enemy variety is not great

Enemies mostly consist of hordes of human enemies, undead and the occasional beasts.

Combat is slow paced and tactical which can be a pro or a con depending on your preference.

Music is good and easy to listen too

Sex scenes with underwear on are really lame.

It's one of those games that is average at best when you sit there and analyze all it individual pieces bit by bit but when looking at it holistically its fits together well enough to be called a good game. Especially for it's time 2009 had so many turds and a huge drought of RPGs.
 

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