Tacticular Cancer: We'll have your balls

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Kickstarter crowdfunding - why not leave it open for the entire development time?

Discussion in 'General Gaming' started by Infinitron, Mar 3, 2012.

  1. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
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    So Doublefine's fundraiser ends in 10 days.

    And it begs the question - why not just leave the thing open right up until the game is released? Put out screenshots, videos, demos during development and if they look promising, there's a good chance some people will be motivated to donate multiple times.

    Of course, this idea isn't without its problems. It might lead to a focus on COOL features at the expense of core mechanics (see The Cool Cam). It might even cause greedy developers to artificially draw out development time in hopes of scrounging more donations from the public (although of course this would have diminishing returns).

    Still, I can't help but think that anything that makes cutting out the publisher middleman look more profitable is a good idea. What do you think?
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  2. Destroid Arcane

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    A lot of indies already do that with the opportunity to pre-order well in advance of the game being completed (pre-orders for NS2 have been open for years now) or with a donation button. Kickstarter's short time-frame probably works to it's advantage by generating a lot of buzz at the same time and the cut-off date perhaps causes people to donate when they might otherwise put it off then forget about it. It also has the block of money at one time advantage.
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  3. commie The Last Marxist Patron

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    I think you're getting overexcited with this Kickstarter thing and the potential monies. As Mr Wolf once said: "Let's not start sucking each others' dicks just yet."

    OTOH where's Vince? He may as well open up a AOD 2 Kickstarter fund...maybe it will be funded and completed before the first one.
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  4. Stinger Augur

    Stinger
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    I think the way the time limit works is that it allows people to get their money back if the necessary amount wasn't reached. So the money isn't actually taken from the donor until after the deadline.

    Putting kickstarter donations indefinitely would make it a bit harder for people to get their money back if the project falls through as it'd already be taken from them to fund the game.
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  5. Peter Cipher

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    That's basically the Minecraft pre-order system only without letting players play early versions, isn't it?
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  6. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    That's true. Let me amend the proposal - the Kickstarter could be extended indefinitely only if it manages to reach its original target within the original time limit.
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  7. Morkar illiterate

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    Then developers would lower their necessary amount of needed cash. They would think, allright, let's fundraise a lower sum then we need to complete the game but enough to get started. The rest of the money will come in while we're developing. And if not, there's serious trouble ahead...
    Onetime donations are safer for the clients. But I would like to have an option to "upgrade" your donations later. But of course this would have drawbacks for developers to get the money needed in the first place.
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  8. Kjujik Educated

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    The answer has probably to do with some legal issues. From my very limited understanding of US law, I think the companies like Kickstarter have to be extremely careful not to fall under the securities regulations. The SEC has a very liberal definition of securities and demands a broker license form any company gathering funds for another company that offers something of value in return. The license costs around 30.000 $ annually and few crowdfunding companies had gone belly up not being able to cough up such cash.
    Also I believe that California law puts some restrictions on public fund gathering. After certain requirements are met the fundraiser has to be registered with the attorney general and becomes subject to state control.
    So probably Kickstarter and Doublefine are trying to cover their asses just in case.
    Other than the time limitation on fundraiser probably makes it easier to determine who gets the prestigious prizes.
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  9. Infinitron RPG Codex Staff Patron

    Infinitron
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    Codex 2012 Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2
    :bro: Interesting, thanks.
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  10. betamin Learned

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    Do you know why is that?
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  11. Kjujik Educated

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    I’ve got no idea whatsoever. Back on the old continent we’ve got no such strict limitations, but I guess it has something to do with lack of “donation contract” (for lack of better translation) and limited rules on unjust enrichment in common law and thus trouble with getting the money back if the purpose of the donation was not met. Not that I would suspect Doublefine of spending the cash on crack instead of game developement, far from it. As I said, I don’t know squat about kwan law, so it’s all just a wild guess. Also Yanks are pretty suspicious of giving – after all it’s the first step on the road to communism – so who knows?
    betamin Brofists this.
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  12. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    This is one good reason. The idea is that if the amount donated reaches this bar, the game gets made. Anything that lets you come back and ask for more money continually is a pyramid scheme waiting to happen.

    It's technically set up to "protect" small investors (by not letting them invest in things lol). Basically it means that you can't invest in something unless you are a multimillionaire, its illegal for them to take your money otherwise. Ostensibly set up to protect people from aforementioned pyramid schemes but also works to keep small time investors far away from anything that can actually make them money.
    betamin Brofists this.
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  13. Kjujik Educated

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    Thanks’ for the info. Always wondered why they chose to regulate it even more, than overzealous Europeans. But it makes sense after so many get burned over and over again on the ponzi schemes and whatnot. It’s just funny how it keeps the legitimate companies down.
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  14. Average Manatee Prestigious Gentleman Arcane

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    Its not funny. It's how banks get to make even more money off of poor people, since they can still act as intermediaries to the transaction, allowing them to pocket money yet suffering zero risk if a deal goes bad. That is, of course, the American Dream.
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  15. betamin Learned

    betamin
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    It's fucking hilarious actually and sad. Thanks for the info to you all.
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  16. Krraloth Learned Patron

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    Seignorage. Seignorage never changes
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  17. Occasionally Fatal Arbiter

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    Because Duke Nukem Forever.
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  18. Dim Not sure if advertising plant?

    Dim
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    Wait what prevents the ponzies from just dividing their project into multiple stages? Not calling the projects "sub parts". And if you can't invest in USA why not just invest in wonderful Europe? Or running KS there in the first place? Or double fine starting a second project for DLC? I mean expansion.
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  19. villain of the story Unwanted

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    Because developers need a clear vision of the design from the start and a concrete figure of finances to determine it.

    And personally, if I were in that position as a developer, it would drive me nuts. I would checking out how much more money rolled in every day and eventually go bitter insane, like "WHAT? ONLY ONE DORRAR SINCE YESTERDAY? WTF IS ONE DORRAR, YOU STINGY CUNT? YOU MISTOOK ME FOR A BEGGAR? UNGRATEFUL PIECE OF SHITS HERE IM MAKING A GAME FOR YOUR ASSES AND WHAT DO I GET: ONE DORRAR PER DAY. FUCK THIS SHIT IM GONNA BURN THIS GAME TO THE GROUND AND WASTE ALL OF YOUR MONIES ON WHORES"

    If anything, I think there could be two funding stages. Like, "we're at this late stage. Most everything has gone according to the plan. We'll deliver on all of our promises. No problems. BUT, here's our second fund drive and if it reaches this much, we'll be able to add this and that and it will be AWESOME++" but somehow I don't see that getting much steam either.
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  20. dumuh Educated

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    Let people play the game before asking them to donate towards an expansion pack. If your game isn't a POS it'll get donors.
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  21. villain of the story Unwanted

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    Beta will be open to donors. Good enough, no?
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  22. Johannes Arcane

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    This way the developer actually knows what he's getting. When you've got a clear deadline people will actually get in by then, if there's indefinite time to do it, people won't feel inclined to hurry with it and they'll leave the payment to as late as possible.
    Sure, the paying is front loaded now, but there's quite a difference in "I'll sign in now or next month" and "I'll pay now or next year". Especially if you could wait and see if you like the development direction or not.


    Oh and actually I don't know if anything stops them from taking preorder money when the kickstarter closes?
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