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KickStarter Kingdom Come: Deliverance Pre-Release Thread [RELEASED, GO TO NEW THREAD]

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unfairlight

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Unfortunate that it's published by Deep Silver. Deep Silver are real shits and often deal with shitty practices like rushed games, day one DLC and microtransactions. Maybe it was hard to find a publisher willing to drop so much money aside from them, though. Otherwise really excited. Loved Mafia 2 and just finished it the second time about an hour ago and if it can hold up to the level of detail in that game it'd be a sure purchase for me.
 

Paul_cz

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Unfortunate that it's published by Deep Silver. Deep Silver are real shits and often deal with shitty practices like rushed games, day one DLC and microtransactions. Maybe it was hard to find a publisher willing to drop so much money aside from them, though. Otherwise really excited. Loved Mafia 2 and just finished it the second time about an hour ago and if it can hold up to the level of detail in that game it'd be a sure purchase for me.

Difference is that Deep Silver only distributes retail copies and helps with marketing, they didn't fund the development so they have no say over DLCs, microtransactions or..anything really.
 

cvv

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I don't really know of any mainstream publisher that doesn't do this shit, they're all the same.

The only real difference is the games they're publishing/supporting and here Deep Silver is not the worst by a long stretch. Anno, Gothic, Risen, Stalker, Metro - some of my most favourite games of all time. As I look at their wiki page they've published mostly banal shit boring popamole lately but for a long time they were pretty good.

It's like Ubisoft - sure they're just as cunty as everyone else but compared to other comparable giants like EA or Activision their games always struck me as being an order of magnitude more intelligent and mature, devoid of Activision's weaboo kiddie retardedness or EA's robotic sports shovelware schtick.
 
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unfairlight

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They're absolute shitheads. They fucked up the release of Agents of Mayhem hard and forced microtransactions and denuvo in it and got a large portion of Volition fired.
 

cvv

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They're absolute shitheads. They fucked up the release of Agents of Mayhem hard and forced microtransactions and denuvo in it and got a large portion of Volition fired.

Eh, hard for me to empathize since I don't give a shit about Volition games or denuvo. But again, all big publishers do cunty things but only a few of them support games from non-retarded genres.
 

Serus

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Yeah, it's really puzzling why game devs never tried to go for a straightforward historical setting, given how super-popular historical movies, TV shows or novels are.

The issue is that people have certain expectations for an RPG, and breaking them would lead to a loss in sales.
It might be objectively true or not but what is more important is that people who invest money in the business of making crpg certainly believe it to be true.
 

Plisken

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History offers an uncountable multitude of excellent plotlines waiting to be adapted, unlike the regurgiated fantasy tropes which incapable writers keep trying to "subvert", "reinvent", etc.
That's not really an argument against fantastic elements though. Fantasy should learn from history.

I think in this context he means tropes that are strictly the produce of fantasy (fiction) in general.
 

Iznaliu

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It might be objectively true or not but what is more important is that people who invest money in the business of making crpg certainly believe it to be true.

I don't think casual players want something that is too different from what they're used to.
 

Serus

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It might be objectively true or not but what is more important is that people who invest money in the business of making crpg certainly believe it to be true.

I don't think casual players want something that is too different from what they're used to.
Maybe but the issue is - no one is willing to test this theory. It's not like those kind of crpg are being made from time to time - then flop badly. No, they are not made (almost) at all. What it means is that we really cannot know for sure. Until someone is willing to take a risk and test the market.
 

Infinitron

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https://www.pcgamesn.com/kingdom-come-deliverance/kingdom-come-deliverance-skyrim-rpg-map-art

Kingdom Come: Deliverance brings Skyrim crashing down into medieval reality

I had made a lot of assumptions about Kingdom Come: Deliverance before sitting down to play it. ‘This will mostly be a sandbox,’ ‘I’m not expecting a lot of story,’ ‘What is there will be too ambitious for its own good’ and, overall, ‘This is not for me’. None of this was correct. Far from a bold move for the Mount & Blade crown, Kingdom Come wants to be a realistic medieval Skyrim, taking you on a long adventure of side-quests, dialogue trees, and investigation. On top of that is built a first-person-only combat system in a beautiful world and it all works far better than I would have thought.

That’s interesting. That’s brave. That is exciting. For a small team out of Eastern Europe it’s remarkably ambitious, but in a way that has a clear end goal rather than a nebulous, difficult-to-polish sandbox that meanders for too long. Warhorse Studios have avoided Early Access too, taking the £1.1 million they made on Kickstarter and investing it in a very traditional game development cycle - expanding the team from 20 people to a full 100 and getting ready for launch four years later. So far, it seems to be paying off.

kingdom%20come%20deliverance%20horse.jpg


The core of this is making sure that combat isn’t always at the centre of your interactions with the world. Warhorse want it to be slower than your average RPG, building up the political situation of the land and your story of growing from farm boy to all-around medieval badass. It also means that, while you can do what you like in the open world, the stories being told are going to keep going on without you.

My demo mission was to investigate an attack on a local stables. You meet up with some soldiers, head down there, question everyone, then find clues in various places to put together what happened and why. This is varied and multi-part, with different avenues to each clue - cross-checking with farm workers or discovering a broken fence to work out which way the attackers fled, for example - and a bunch of ways to react of them, all of which appeal to your common sense rather than rely on signposting. Discover where the bad guys are and you can head off on your own, or you can return to your comrades and gather a squad together, which, of course, also removes any hope of stealth.

What was most impressive to me is that, once the quest is triggered, if you don’t go along to it, it will resolve by itself. The already irate military commander, annoyed to be taking a rookie such as you along for the ride in the first place, will be extremely angry that you ignored orders and rode off to a side-quest on the other side of the map for a couple of days. He and his men are not incompetent, and thus, if you don’t show up they will eventually sort out the mystery for themselves. There is a limit to this so that the whole plot doesn’t happen while you go off to have fun, but all your actions have consequences, whether big or small.

kingdom%20come%20deliverance%20combat_0.jpg


As you can imagine, all of this is a breeding ground for bugs. I didn’t spot anything amiss in the demo, but part of the reason for the most recent Kingdom Come delay, putting it into next year, is so the entire team - artists, programmers, anyone with spare minutes and a computer - can get down to making it as good as it can be.

The expectation for a game like this would be a lack of polish. While it doesn’t have triple-A smoothness - and let’s be honest, Bethesda’s best efforts don’t either - it is far less janky than most games at the beta stage, be they publicly available or not. Yes, what the developers are showing off to me is going to be the most polished segment of the game they have, but with three more months of bug smashing left to go I have a lot of confidence in Warhorse’s capability to get it right.

There are two other key triumphs. First is in linked mechanics, with complex combat supported by a big combo system plus skills, gear, and perks, all of which also influence social interaction. Go out, kill a guy, and get blood all over your sword? You might look like a badass now, changing how characters see you - and not all of them like it. Know the first aid skill? You can bypass challenging social bluffs or intimidation checks by bandaging an arm. Again, it is an interwoven series of modifiers, based on circumstance and logic as much as gear.

kingdom%20come%20deliverance_1.jpg


The second is in looks. Kingdom Come has one of the prettiest maps I have ever seen in a videogame, to the point of it not only being worth mentioning, but celebrating. Renaissance-era art slowly reveals itself as you explore, with intricate drawings in a tapestry style indicating towns and other areas. It is great, and puts a high-quality sheen on the whole game, in tandem with the CryEngine looking its absolute best.

This is all tied together by a strong historical base in which your character, Henry, and his story, is fictional, but the surroundings are an accurate interpretation of what really happened. Open up a history book and you can spoil the ending for yourself. No surprises that a full-time historian on the team keeps everything in check - it was their idea to make the 15th-century-style map.

It isn’t finished yet, but getting it right will put Kingdom Come: Deliverance in a unique spot. The Witcher and Skyrim have taken fantasy RPGs into the stratosphere - but nobody has kept their storytelling and narrative options when transferring over to a world of cavalry charges and unenchanted swords. That is effectively a whole new genre and, by the looks of it, it could be a great one.
 

Paul_cz

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I'm tired of everyone comparing everything to Skyrim.

In this case it is unavoidable. How many (semi)medieval first person RPGs are there?
Plus Skyrim is the most well known best selling RPG (yes, bad one) ever made, so any games even slightly similar to it will be compared. Plus Vávra himself, to attract backers didn't mind comparing them.
 

Smejki

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Yeah. "It's nothing like Baldur's Gate 2/Diablo/Dungeon Master/Mass Effect" is not a good point for neither marketing nor critique/reporting.
Relevant games you can compare us with:
Bethesda RPGs (Skyrim, most recently)
Witcher 3
Fallout: New Vegas
Gothic 1/2
Gothic 3
..
..
..
Maybe Mafia... because of Dan's legacy.
That's pretty much it. Fallout is quite old already, and Gothic isn't known globally. So let's narrow it back down to the famous duo - Skyrim and Witcher 3.
 

Smejki

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In that sense I should have also mentioned Risen. But it's disqualified for the same reason Gothic is. Even moreso. And I am afraid ELEX will be met by similar fate.
 

cvv

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In that sense I should have also mentioned Risen. But it's disqualified for the same reason Gothic is. Even moreso. And I am afraid ELEX will be met by similar fate.

As I said in the Elex thread, most major videogame magazines are American and Americans have a dismal history reviewing European games. They'll forgive anything, including bugs, bad VO or stiff animation, if it comes from Bethesda or Bioware but they're usually very strict towards the same failings in European games. The fiasco around Andromeda was remarkable because it was a very rare case where a major North American game was not allowed to get away with sloppiness. Usually this doesn't happen.

I'm really curious about their reaction to KCD when it comes out. So far the impressions have been positive but I'm pretty sure they WILL call the facials stiff and the combat janky and generally nitpick a lot of stuff, even though nobody was EVER bothered by any of this in any Bethesda's game review.
 

Smejki

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Gothic 1/2
Gothic 3
Can you elaborate on those? Why KCD is comparable to Gothic 1-3?

I ask because I love those 3 games.
I'm not sure you understood what I meant by my post. I'm not saying we have some Gothic-esque qualities. Nor am I claiming ere we don't have any.
That's upon you to decide when KCD is out.
I'm just saying that you can use those games as a relevant reference point when describing the concept of our game. There aren't many relevant games for such comparisons and Gothic series is one of them (albeit not popular enough and thus relevant enough for the general audience). And I also named 1/2 and 3 separately because I think their concepts are fundamentally different.
 

Smejki

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In that sense I should have also mentioned Risen. But it's disqualified for the same reason Gothic is. Even moreso. And I am afraid ELEX will be met by similar fate.

As I said in the Elex thread, most major videogame magazines are American and Americans have a dismal history reviewing European games. They'll forgive anything, including bugs, bad VO or stiff animation, if it comes from Bethesda or Bioware but they're usually very strict towards the same failings in European games. The fiasco around Andromeda was remarkable because it was a very rare case where a major North American game was not allowed to get away with sloppiness. Usually this doesn't happen.

I'm really curious about their reaction to KCD when it comes out. So far the impressions have been positive but I'm pretty sure they WILL call the facials stiff and the combat janky and generally nitpick a lot of stuff, even though nobody was EVER bothered by any of this in any Bethesda's game review.
I don't think it's about some form. Unlike Czechs for example Americans don't give a shit where a product comes from. They don't get all cocky that some American game got globally popular because it happens so often it's . For Czechs or other smaller nations, this is different. A local game conquers the world once in a few years.That's why we all jump joyfully and root for the developers.
I think it's more about 3 things - fandom, familiarity with style and genre, and familiarity with the developer.
And you can see that with many high-profile European devs who make very "American" games. DICE (swe). Much of Ubisoft (fr). Guerilla (UK). Quantic dream (fr). Crytek (ger). Arkane (fr). etc.
When Bethesda/Ubi/EA releases a game, you already know what to expect and if you liked their previous game you can just skip over all that seems similar to previous iterations. You're likely a fan already after all. And moreover an American developer will be more likely aligned with American audience in terms of style and priorities even if they have no fandom yet. When very un-american game like Gothic suddenly makes a landfall in the US, all the player meets is unfamiliarity on many steps and they have to analyze thoroughly what's this game is about. It's then easy for the game to end up not completely synced with the player. It's even easier for the player to just reject it as something strange and not waste much time with it. In all these cases you pay higher attention to any technical or design shortcomings.

No matter the case, it's highly unprofessional to do it this way when you are a journalist.
 

cvv

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When very un-american game like Gothic suddenly makes a landfall in the US, all the player meets is unfamiliarity on many steps and they have to analyze thoroughly what's this game is about. It's then easy for the game to end up not completely synced with the player. It's even easier for the player to just reject it as something strange and not waste much time with it. In all these cases you pay higher attention to any technical or design shortcomings.

No matter the case, it's highly unprofessional to do it this way when you are a journalist.

Yes, good points. I've heard people explain the coldness of American journalists toward many Euro games as a proof they're all bought by the big American publishers and that may or may not be true. But it's never necessary to ascribe foul motives where something can be explained by other reasons. This "syncing" problem is probably the culprit here, people tend to nitpick stuff they find unfamiliar and at the same time they instinctively like stuff that's familiar, even though it's swarming with problems. As psychologists know we often make decisions with our heart and then proceed to use our brain to justify it.

But I guess that's not a problem exclusive to Americans, I for one have a very hard time playing most Japanese games, even those that are considered all time classic. I suspect the reason why Dark Souls is my favourite game of all times is because it actually doesn't feel very Japanese at all.
 

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