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KickStarter Knights of Light - historical action-RPG set in 7th century Iraq - now available on Early Access

Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535


Are those Hanging Gardens at 0:30?

69068511da015f3b99cb78f9c73737c1_original.gif


:kfc:
 

The Fish

Arcane
Joined
Feb 25, 2014
Messages
1,216
Already looks like they're going to fail. There really doesn't seem much of a market for graphically good, mainsteam style games that aren't published by Activision, Ubisoft etc. If you're a small developer and want to succeed you better find your indie niche because the giant market for "AAA" style games is entirely consumed by the big publishers, with very few exceptions. The game needs to be basically graphically perfect like Hellblade, why would any self respecting popamoler buy something with animations as shoddy as the ones above?
 
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Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535
Some stuff from Reddit.

Technically you are correct!

AAA stands for high production values hence huge budgets

Indie stands for small studios with limited resources

But we have an exception as a studio located in Egypt and in Africa

Our cost is much lower so the campaign goal of 100K euros (which is a joke from western perspective) resembles for us more than 2Million euros (the exchange rate is over twenty)

So we believe we can use crowdfunding to offer gamers a choice to establish an indie studio with quality production standards that respects them and never have the corporate greed

We are really impressed by how much you are informative on our culture

It seems you did not see the campaign video

Fear not we are not strict in the historical realism like Kingdom Come

The story will include a side fantasy subplot which is based on the myths and legends of the Sassanian culture
 
Joined
May 8, 2018
Messages
3,535
That's the game from Vavra's tweet.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rumbling-games/knights-of-light

More Reddit.

Full of massive terrifying red flags DO NOT BACK, here's the short list:
1. Not asking for anything like enough money (even given their middle east location)
2. Incredibly poor writing and editing throughout the kick starter page, laced with egregious misuse of industry terminology, and non-stop namedropping of unaffiliated studios.
3. Inconsistent design aesthetic.
4. No previous experience, and no involvement from more experienced developers.
5. No indication of how they plan to manage financial resources.
6. No Financial management personnel on staff.
7. Physical products in reward tiers, no manufacturing/distribution personnel on staff.
8. Already announcing plans for DLC.
9. Plans to be dubbed into eight languages. (This alone would cost more than their funding goal).
10. Hilariously unrealistic target date of 2020 for a very ambitious 60 hour action RPG, even if they were a AAA studio (they aren't) this wouldn't be a reasonable expectation.

I could keep going, but frankly my guess is that this is either some naive college kids who don't really understand what they are doing, or a scam.

Okay allow us to respond:

  1. you do not live in the middle east and specifically Egypt so let us inform you of some of our team current wages
First the salaries:

our lead environment artist earns the same as our lead game developer earns 5000 pounds a month (about $300) and even our character animator earn less.

Only character artists are the high ones reaching 8000 pound (about $500).

These are the most expensive departments because others ones are much cheaper (translators / actors / composers) specially they are contractors not a full time job.

and some of the founders are developers and testers who spend their own savings on the project and work for free.

Second the production:

we stated clearly that this goal is the bare minimum required to enter steam early access.

so the current goal is not the complete budget at all.

  1. criticism is welcomed point us to the poor and weak points and we will elaborate more and discuss it and edit it.

  2. can you guide us where is the inconsistency ?

  3. that point is valid indeed we have no previous development experience in large projects only small one like mobile games.
the only exception is our game designer who participated in the quest design of the original assassin's creed game.

but we have started the project about two years ago and gained enough experience to be confident that we can deliver.

  1. good point we will address more in detail in the campaign but right now.
    we will need to acquire at least one Xsense motion capture suit costs about $25K but can be bought at a discount for indie studios.
    then we will have full-time :
- three game developers / one character animator / one environment artist / one game designer / two testers.

contractors:

- one composer / one concept artist / two character artists / three voice actors / one mocap actor.

- our goal is to have a few missions with five enemy unit types and two bosses in the early access phase.

We estimate it would take us about 6 to 9 months to reach it.

  1. one of the founders is the producer and the responsible of financial tasks check our website.

  2. this a little weird physical rewards only require contracting with some manufacturers and shipment services and this too is handled through our producer connections as he worked with media companies and their retailers.

  3. what is the problem of having a DLC later on ? provided it is an addition to the game scope from a narrating point of view not splitting the game itself in half.

  4. this one is really completely wrong as if you want to see it that way it is written translation not dubbing and there is a big difference! the dubbing is only in Arabic. of all your points this one is your assumption

  5. it is October 2020 so it is more than two years and even so it is the estimated delivery we plan to enter the beta stage at this time and official release will depend on the game final condition
Side note the studio is owned by ZoneTech a registered legal company in Egypt.

Finally thank you have caught our attention to some important details to include in the campaign

As always valid criticism is very much welcomed

If your genuinely interested in feedback here are my thoughts, but you probably won't like them:

  1. I don't have to live in Cairo to understand it's economic realities, and even there you are far far away from a reasonable budget for a project of this size, my salary estimates are not that far off from what you described. The problem is that you are dramatically underestimating your production costs.

  2. You're presentation lacks consistent visual aesthetic and style and you need to either dramatically improve your grasp of the english language, or hire a copy editor who can speak and write more fluently, alternatively, you could look at a project that's less dependent on dialogue and text than a sprawling ARPG epic.

  3. Ultimately, my advice would be to put this one on the back burner, it's too big, and too ambitious for a first commercial effort from what is a small studio. No amount of study or effort is going to prepare you for building and releasing a commercial product. So make your first commercial product small.
    Instead build something small scale using the same engine, and the same tools, and the same pipeline make a smaller game at a traditional independent scale, in your native language, with subtitles/text only translation. Focus on quality, not scope.
    Use this to learn wtf you are doing, and to build a reputation.
    Don't double dip. Make your kickstarter goal enough to complete the game, with no early access period.
    Release the smaller game, and learn how to support it post launch, build a community around this game.
Then come back to kickstarter 6-12 months after that games successful launch. and you can say "Look we did this smaller project and it went well, and now we know how much it costs to make a game, and we've proven we can do it, and we know this is how much it will cost to make Knights of Light to the standard we want to. And you'll already have an existing fan base cheering for you and promoting your game because they like your first one.

TLDR:
You are trying to be Usain Bolt, but you haven't figured out how to crawl yet, and you have no idea how expensive running shoes are.
Make a smaller game first, and people will get behind you.

In response to your other notes:
Don't even talk about DLC, it's kickstarter poison, if you've got a few succesfull kickstarter campaigns under your belt you might get away with it, but not as a first timer.

Physical rewards have mutilated Kickstarter campaigns before, shipping is very expensive, general rule of thumb: no physical rewards with less than 500,000 USD in requested funding.

The way your text is currently written implies dubbing in multiple languages. That's not my assumption, thats what you said.

If you have an experienced producer in charge of the finance, you should say so, and list other products he has worked on.

No one cares if you are owned by a registered company, you've made it very clear that they aren't publishing your product or funding it by stating that you are an independent studio, and plan to self publish.

Two years is an incredibly agressive timeframe for a new team trying to publish a 60 hour ARPG, there's just no realistic way for you to hit beta at the level of production values you're describing with the team size and experience you've discussed in 24 months.
You should be planning a minimum of 3 years for something like this with an experienced team, as new developers you really shouldn't be biting off this much at once AT ALL, but if I were to guess, I would put it closer to 5 years.

Very well your points about the campaign will be considered and really gave us some pointers to update and edit a few sections.

As for your other points it generally revolves around one point: experience and it is indeed an important one no deny about it, you can consider it the golden nugget!
You prefer to play it safe and better safe than sorry.
You are correct indeed no question about it! so you are logical and reasonable here no doubt.
But also there is others who want to take a risk and a challenge and of-course it is more dangerous we admit.
Everyone have to make choices and some risks are seen as a challenge with a desire to overcome them.

In the end your criticism was sincere that is why the discussion was beneficial.
Regardless of the differences you have our respect.

Thanks

Wow.. most of this response is completely unintelligible......
I think you're saying you recognize that your project is high risk.
It's not high risk, as presented, it is a near certain failure.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
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Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
https://www.pcgamesn.com/knights-of-light/knights-of-light-unreal-engine-4

Making it in Unreal: Knights of Light remodels the RPG from a Middle Eastern perspective
An Egyptian studio is learning the lessons of The Witcher 3 and bringing its own historical knowledge to the genre

Knights-of-Light-1.jpg


There are many games that use the Middle East as a backdrop, but all too few that tell their stories from a Middle Eastern perspective. Knights of Light is the counterpoint we’ve been missing – an RPG influenced by The Witcher 3 but rooted in the history and mythology of Iraq.

Knights of Light takes the battle of al-Qādisiyyah as its focal point – a climactic clash in 636 AD between the new Islamic Caliphate and crumbling but powerful Sasanian Empire, which ruled Iraq at the time.

This is a story aching to be told from different perspectives – despite the title, there are no angelic warriors here, and no barbarians offered up for morally unambiguous slaughter. Exploring Knights of Light’s open world will introduce you to complex characters on both sides of the conflict.

Ahmed Fouad, the CEO of Cairo-based Rumbling Games Studio, worked as an English and Russian language tour guide before entering the software industry. As such, Knights of Light is shaped by his deep love for Middle Eastern history. Not to mention CD Projekt Red.



PHOTOS FROM ANCIENT HISTORY
Rumbling Games Studio is currently eight members strong, plus a team of about ten contractors. Fouad hopes to double his in-house staff with the help of the game’s Kickstarter campaign, but even with that boost, the team has identified photorealism as a huge challenge.

To begin with, the team attempted to create the textures that would define the look of their environments by hand using a substance designer.

“But we were wasting too much time just creating one texture, or modelling a small rock,” Fouad recalls. “So we chose to use Megascans.”

Quixel Megascans is an enormous online library of globally sourced 3D assets, textures, vegetation, debris, and the like for use in visual effects work. While the idea of buying or borrowing textures might sound like a shortcut likely to cheapen the result, this particular library has been leaned on by some of the highest budget productions you can imagine. Scans enabled the speedy creation of realistic scenery in The Jungle Book, for instance, which later won the 2017 Oscar for Best Visual Effects.

“We use it to buy photorealistic textures and assets, for example, for trees,” Fouad says. “That helps us save money and time when building the foundation of the landscape.”

Rumbling Games has been relying on another company named Texturingxyz, which specialises in capturing facial, body, and eye detail using a “unique multi-stitching material method.” The upshot of that is a library full of extremely high-res scans that retain all the roughness, bumps, and cavities of human skin. And, sometimes, the not quite human: the pockmarked visage of Thanos in Infinity War was brought about partly by incorporating Texturingxyz’s facial scans of people in their 60s.

“The approach to photorealism was the main challenge when we started our studio,” Fouad says.



A WORLD UNSEEN IN GAMES
The game world of Knights of Light takes in a huge swathe of seventh century Iraq, eventually clocking in at 400 square kilometers if Rumbling Studio is able to finish not only the game but its two planned expansions. “I know this is three times bigger than The Witcher 3,” Fouad boasts. “Assassin’s Creed Origins is 100 square kilometers.”

Despite the huge ambition involved in producing a digital version of Iraq of this size, Fouad is wary of the compromise necessary in cutting the country back any further. “If we wanted to squeeze it into 100 square kilometers we would be losing too many landmarks,” he says.

The map of Knights of Light will take in desert, mountains, and a far more diverse landscape than the one-dimensional Iraq portrayed by popular culture, stuffed with historical buildings. The team are drawing on the art and architecture of the Sasanian Empire, which ruled Iraq at the time, and inherited a unique aesthetic from Assyrian and Sumerian culture.



The pre-alpha footage Rumbling Games has shared so far is already notable for its stunning draw distance, used to show off distant, snow-tipped peaks.

“Epic Games use Unreal Engine 4 for Fortnite, and ported it to the Nintendo Switch,” Fouad points out. “They give us a lot of technical support for optimisation.”

It’s been years since Fouad first used the engine at a fateful Global Game Jam in Egypt, and two since his team began studying its tools and building its experience. Eventually, Rumbling Games hopes to become something like its beloved inspirations CD Projekt Red – independent and unrivalled in production values.
 
Joined
Sep 18, 2013
Messages
1,258
That's the game from Vavra's tweet.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rumbling-games/knights-of-light

More Reddit.

You're presentation lacks consistent visual aesthetic and style and you need to either dramatically improve your grasp of the english language

Somebody behead this ignorant infidel.

In the end your criticism was sincere that is why the discussion was beneficial.
Regardless of the differences you have our respect.

Infidel saved his head this time.
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,228
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
Coming to Early Access:





Why Early Access?
“Being a game development studio in Egypt and in the Middle East is a huge challenge.
The game industry in the region is quite limited and primitive.
We have been developing the game for three years now.
But finishing and completing the whole project is quite challenging on our own.
So we decided to let gamers judge the potential of our project.
Our mindset is to focus on quality over quantity (visuals / animations / cinematic / optimizations) with an indie spirit for the budget limitations.”

Approximately how long will this game be in Early Access?
“We plan to finish the full game content in one year.
So the game will enter the beta stage after one year from now.
After that we will polish it up to have the final release within a few months later.”

How is the full version planned to differ from the Early Access version?
“During early access we will polish and add depth to the battle events.
This will provide replay value beside the campaign missions.
After that the following will be added:
  • The rest of the campaign missions
  • All complete cinematic cut-scenes for the story
  • Larger battlefields with a lot more units engaged
  • Full skills and abilities tree for the two characters
  • More unique units and bosses with special abilities
  • Tribes and villages system with shifting alliances
  • Different side quests with additional NPCs
  • Survival mechanics in the vast desert dunes
  • Ancient Sassanian landmarks and ruins to explore
  • Several side activities like hunting and exploring

What is the current state of the Early Access version?
“The core mechanics are implemented and requires more polish.
The system can be easily expanded with more features without issues.
Characters abilities and skills are limited right now.
There are currently four missions in the game.
Random battle events will be available for the player to encounter.
The game is playable and fairly optimized for smooth experience.
No major or critical bugs are present to break the game flow.
However any discovered issues will be addressed immediately.”

Will the game be priced differently during and after Early Access?
“Naturally the game price will increase with more content being added.
However we will try to keep the price increase at a lower scale to accommodate everyone.”

How are you planning on involving the Community in your development process?
“Steam discussion boards will be used to receive the feedback.
We do not take the early access tag as an excuse.
We want to receive the community's feedback and criticism as well.
Earning the community's trust in our potential is the key for success.
Any constructive criticism will be taken to heart.”
 
Joined
Oct 15, 2018
Messages
862
Location
Ali Ghaylān
Someone in their team needs to have the asterisk and/or [b ] removed from their keyboard. The bolding of every second word was first funny and then extremely cringe. The Engrish was plain hilarious though, the contradictions were amazing. One moment the game is aimed for early access and the next sentence it's not.

We have planned our goals very carefully to keep the original game scope in mind and make a room for more content. We have decided to start with a small initial goal that will provide the bare minimum game-play for steam early access. However several stretch goals ahead and the full game features will be funded resulting in no early access.


There were also quite a bit of interesting claims on their pitch.
So we need to buy at least one Xsense motion capture suit which costs about $25K but can be bought at a discount price for indie studios.

1. It's Xsens, not Xsense.
2. They are probably referring to a Xsens MVN suit, which seem to cost 12k - 25k currently.
3. That Indie program is explicitly stated on the Xsens page to not be available for companies outside of US, Canada or Europe.
Xsens Indie Program key facts:

  • Studios invest in Xsens hardware
  • Free Xsens software for participants in the first year
  • Access to ongoing support via BASE community
  • Available to companies with turnover under ~750k (EUR/USD)
  • Only available in US, Canada and Europe
They seem to have no idea that they have taxes, licensing fees to pay on top of that 100k if they plan to use Unreal. They also can't seem to decide how long the game takes to develop.
Our estimate is we need another two years to enter the beta stage and prepare for release. So the total development process is four years.
Yet a bit later they state on the same page
Our estimates to reach the alpha stage and enter steam early access is 9 to 12 months.

They also can't seem to decide is the game historically accurate or a variation of it.

Our game writer is very obsessed with history to the tiniest details.
To provide more authentic references we have the consultation of an academic history professor from the university of Toronto who will cooperate with our writer to review and validate the project historical accuracy.
Despite being a historical story we will introduce some fantasy elements.
The Middle Eastern fantasy & culture are RARELY introduced in games that is why the experience will be very authentic and different.

I'll be sitting this one out. The pitch is all over the place and they really need an editor to fix that pitch. Their responses to questions come off unprofessional and at times illiterate.
 

getter77

Augur
Joined
Oct 12, 2008
Messages
861
Location
GA, USA
Strong, nice Antinomy vibes on the music---perhaps this shall suffer a less cursed fate.
 

Tigranes

Arcane
Joined
Jan 8, 2009
Messages
10,350
Great setting, some nice landscapes and architecture! I like what I -

*scimitar man twirls around then jumps 3m in the air matrix-stopping before smashing the enemy, with every kill popping up in giant beacons of blue light and +15!!!"

oh
 

Ranarama

Learned
Joined
Dec 7, 2016
Messages
604
Eh. I think they're centering on the action given that the protagonist is right handed.

However perhaps we could begin calling this sort of thing a turd person camera.
 

laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
Dumbass~

If making an Egyptian game, best period is Caesar/Cleopatra.

Second best is ancient ANCIENT EGYPT with Atlantis thrown in, fantasy style.

Extra lols would be Moses period.

Anything else is unknown to your average consumers. An indie dev need to consider consumer's level of interest. An oxymoron, I know, being indie and all. But that's how it is.

Witcher 1 won due to accumulating demand for a good storyfag RPG coupled with hack-slash action style after nearly a decade. The polish novel is actually not helping because noone know about it, especially gamers.

The timing right now is not right if they want to replicating Witcher1 success. A Persian 1000-night fantasy style might just scratch it. transparent harem pant dancing girls, goatee vizier, endless expanse of sands etc...
 
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laclongquan

Arcane
Joined
Jan 10, 2007
Messages
1,870,144
Location
Searching for my kidnapped sister
From the gameplay to the feel of it, the devs seem to want an Egyptian Dynasty Warrior, yet it's without anything egyptian, more like. Okay, more like Ottoman Dynasty Warrior.

The problem is, DW series has the support of billions of Chinese along with asian players. If making one, the dev know the size of potential customer base as well as actual paying audience.

Eyptian? Not so much. Ottoman? Again, not so much. That period is something of a niche even among historical-orient audience. Kinda like Holy Roman Empire.
----
That aside, they are making a critical mistake when intending a Dynasty Warrior-theme game:

A zero presence of female characters. lack of tits and asses.

Sure, it might be historical accurate. Maybe. But the actual effect is that a DW game without female curves~ And we all know what a DW game without females is like: aka boring shit.
 
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