Legend of Grimrock 2 is worth playing now that there are some good mods!

[Unkillable Cat]

OK, first bullshit "puzzle" encountered.

Remember those swarms of flies from the swamp that moves ultra-fast and can easily kill an unwary party?

Well, in the Desarune ruins (the level below the Archives) there's a innocent-looking secret button. Pushing it unleashes hell, a secret passage opens with a teleporter and stairs upward. The teleporter spawns these swarms of flies ENDLESSLY and RELENTLESSLY. What makes this fight hard is how difficult it is to hit them, and how fast they move. You know when you're fighting a monster and there's another one waiting to get at you? The nano-second the first monster dies the second monster steps into the square, so a queue of monsters can easily fuck up a party. These flyswarms move so fast, you can kill one swarm and be facing the next one, then watch as the instantly respawned flyswarm joins the back of the queue, all before the character that landed the killing blow can make another attack!

AND, here's the kicker - if you actually DO manage to fight your way to the teleporter, the flyswarms will spawn ON TOP OF EACH OTHER in the teleporter, creating a super flyswarm that respawns constantly!

Fortunately the button can be pushed again to close the passage.

At great expense to my party and my resources I DID manage to get past the teleporter and up the stairs. Up there is a puzzle as brilliant as the flyswarm thing is stupid - but your only reward for solving it are the "Hands of Life" - the gauntlets to a new set of Heavy Armor that boosts your health regeneration.

My recommendation? Only try this once your party is high level. I mean "close to beating the game"-high level. My party is level 9-10 and can't hack it.

 

[cvv]

So obviously I had to start a new playthrough immediately and right off I got a question - that new area in the Halls of the Dead, behind the iron door you open with a secret button, wtf? I see teleporter but no way to get there. Is it something I had to come back to when I have levitation or some such? Otherwise I'm stumped (yes, by the very first new puzzle, kill me now).

 

[anvi]

Yeah there are lots of puzzles that require stuff from later on, it was really confusing me. There are going to be a few backtracking journeys later on to pick up some pimp armor. I wasted a lot of time on the early ones trying to figure them out but there is just no solution. I only just realised it now because I just saw some armor behind a door but you have to press a button to open that door and the button also locks you in the area you are in so you can't reach it. But there is a teleportation spell which would make it easy to get, but I need another skill point for that spell -.-

Also some puzzles require you to shoot stuff at the pipe thing on the wall. So far I have one staff that shoots white bolts that opened some stuff, but others require different stuff.

The game is getting harder again now. It got easy for a while because I have some overpowered spells that nuke the hell out of stuff, so I have just been tanking in all fights and healing myself and trying to nuke stuff down before I run out of mana. It is exciting and challenging and for me is much more fun than dancing around. But I am now facing enemies that can kill me in 2 hits so no amount of healing will save me, so I have to kite some stuff.

I am having a lot of fun! This mod wont suit a lot of people but for me it is awesome. I might program my mouse to cast lots of spells, I have so many useful ones now.

p.s. That room with the poison mushrooms that keep spawning still took me 9 million attempts. Don't know how the hell I survived that the first time I played, without these extra spells. I guess I must have had to be fast with my inventory and burn through all my potions or something. That room was hell.

p.s. I forgot how good this game was, even without the mod, there are some great puzzles and some nice dungeon design.

 

[Valky]

The puzzle to get into the cemetary was poorly designed because it relied on knowledge obtained outside of the game.

 

[cvv]

The game is getting harder again now.

Uh oh, I started playing on Hard, I hope imma not regret it

 

[anvi]

I guess the difficulty will spike up and down depending on spells. But yeah, there are some baddies I have to kite around or they kill me in a few hits on medium. But that's ok, it is how I played the entire game originally! I guess on hard you will have to kite most stuff, but at least you will have lots more spells to help out. I just got Osmosis which is awesome, it spreads health and mana out evenly across the whole party, so I just don't bother doing power attacks on my 2 melees, and then it spreads their mana into my casters pool. Makes healing easier too.

 

[*-*/\--/\~]

I checked the patch notes and...

- Scaling monsters: monsters now scale with you. They gain 5% damage, 5% health and award 5% more experience per level.
- Monsters now also gain accuracy when they scale.

Fuck off with that, keep the level scaling in Bethesda crapgames. ;/

5% is barely worth talking about. It'll probably only make a difference once you're up against heavy hitters like Ogres and Lava Golems, though the extra XP is nice.

It's 5% PER LEVEL, so after a dozen level ups, it's +60%... that is definitely not "barely worth talking about". :D
Plus, also saw couple of "changed HP of enemy X from 1000 to 5000" so HP sponges abound I guess...

 

[cvv]

I guess on hard you will have to kite most stuff

Oh shit yeah, even the basic bitch shrubbery guys would shred me if I just stood put. I just fought the double undead knights and swoosh swoosh, my barb was dead in four hits.

But that's ok, I don't mind kiting and having a few attempts at bosses and difficult rooms, at least you get to use all the spells and consumables that usually get forgotten during Normal runs. I just hope the game won't turn into a tormenting slog.

 

[anvi]

Any of you guys good with autohotkey? I found a script online that lets you auto cast spells and make all melees hit together. I can't get it to work though :/ Thinking I might need to find an old version of ahk or something.

http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=7956

 

[Unkillable Cat]

oh shit yeah, even the basic bitch shrubbery guys would shred me if I just stood put. I just fought the double undead knights and swoosh swoosh, my barb was dead in four hits.

But that's ok, I don't mind kiting and having a few attempts at bosses and difficult rooms, at least you get to use all the spells and consumables that usually get forgotten during Normal runs. I just hope the game won't turn into a tormenting slog.

Restart on Normal now, while you're still pretty early on and don't have to backtrack too much.

I tried my first playthrough of this mod on Hard. It's fun with some of the basic enemies (like the tree saplings and wargs) but then you'll run into things like the constantly respawning fungi in the Keelbreach Bog underground...and realize nothing in this world could prepare you for this. I'm playing on Normal and I'm leaving that place the fuck alone until I'm a much higher level than I am now.

I ran into the endless swarm of flies on Normal - I don't even WANT to imagine what it would be like to run into them on Hard.

It's 5% PER LEVEL, so after a dozen level ups, it's +60%... that is definitely not "barely worth talking about". :D
Plus, also saw couple of "changed HP of enemy X from 1000 to 5000" so HP sponges abound I guess...

I'll admit that I haven't come across any HP sponges except the Fire Rock Monster in the castle map (and he's a solitary monster behind a secret door) but my Lvl 9-10 party recently did a sweep of cleared dungeons to pick off any stragglers (you'll want to do this as every XP counts for your spellcaster(s)) and I didn't even notice any resistance from these monsters. Ratlings fired flintlocks and threw shit at me without me barely breaking a sweat.

 

[cvv]

Restart on Normal now, while you're still pretty early on and don't have to backtrack too much.

I tried my first playthrough of this mod on Hard. It's fun with some of the basic enemies (like the tree saplings and wargs) but then you'll run into things like the constantly respawning fungi in the Keelbreach Bog underground...and realize nothing in this world could prepare you for this. I'm playing on Normal and I'm leaving that place the fuck alone until I'm a much higher level than I am now.

What exactly are you saying - the mod made everything harder? Normal is harder than Normal vanilla? Hard is harder than Hard vanilla?

If so than yeah, fuck Hard. Fucking vanilla Normal was spicy enough.

 

[anvi]

WOOT I got a macro that works! It is called Mini Mouse Macro and it is free. It seems to only register clicks if you double click, so I double click a spell, then drag the shape and release, and double click to shoot the spell, and it works! Now I can recall the spell with one button.

Now I need to figure out how to recall multiple macros. Maybe using my mouse software. But for now I just have the macro cast the life drain (mana gain) spell on my 2 wizzies, then the regen health spell a moment later. I want to do this in every fight so now I can focus on remembering a bunch of other stuff and just have the macro do this every fight.

p.s. I think Cat is right that the game is harder, in places anyway. Sometimes it is easier, sometimes harder. The spells are more powerful and more utility, but the enemies are harder too so it balances out, more or less. Medium seems fun for me anyway.

 

[anvi]

I just reached that weird trap with the endless flies. I just closed the door again and left it alone. I guess you can grind there for a while and get lots of XP but I'm not sure if that would be beneficial or not because of the level scaling?

Also my new magic routine is working well. I have a macro setup which casts a big nuke on both of my characters at the same time. First wiz casts a spell which is a few fireballs, and a few ice bolts combined. Then the second wiz casts a spell which is a storm of poison and lightning. But it works well because if the ice from the first spell freezes the target, then it just sits there in a cloud of poison for a while getting rekt. Fun times.

p.s. I just got my third healing spell, which is nice. I now have a small heal, a big heal, and a regeneration.

 

[Baron Dupek]

Subscribed some mods in Workshop only to find out some of them are only available on Nexus and other sites.
I had not such issue with other games, at best there was one thing not available in porkshop but this take a cake.
Everything I experienced with LoG2 scream "that's how you make proper sequels" yet sales and mods availability show opposite.

 

[anvi]

God I love this now! The Leprechaun fight was epic, he was so tough but there is a way to whoop him quite easily.

Spoiler

Have one big tank and give him all your best tank gear and all the skill books for resists etc. Then use Misdirection so all damage dealt to the group goes to him. Then you can wait for the Leprechaun mofo to stand in the 1x1 square gap and you just step in behind him and tank him in that one spot so he can't move. He spams you with fire flasks but all damage goes to the tank who absorbs most of it. Just chip away at him with melee and some spells, but save enough mana to heal the tank to full and re-cast misdirect.

p.s. You can also equip the Meteor Shield immediately when you pick it up because it has +10 to Fire.

This feels a lot more RPG'ish now. Love it.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

I'm seeing more and more situations where the new spells are starting to become a necessity for combat.

The Crystal Mines, for example, now has fewer spiders, but they constantly respawn as long as those eggsacs are around. So the readme says to smash the eggsacs. I did. Still the spiders keep coming. A bug or a feature?

It's becoming clear that the modified campaign is no Master Quest for Grimrock 2, but more of a showcase for all the spells and items that the mod offers. If it's possible for modders to pick and choose which of the spells to use, then this is golden. But if it's a "all or nothing" package I would say pass because it's mostly the utilitarian spells (plus a few other combat spells) that would make the cut.

There are some new armors corresponding to each of the five elements. Fire gets heavy armor that boosts strength, Earth gets light armour with a high protection value and bonuses to Vitality, Water gets heavy armor that boosts regeneration, Air gets weightless light armor that only adds Evasion and Dexterity (and no Protection) and finally Ether has some light armor that I can't remember the stats for ATM. They're all rewards for puzzles unique to the mod and require the new spells, so they're well worth hunting after. All of these armors also boost spellcasting powers relevant to their elements.

After checking the readme I found that the mod beefs up every boss fight in the game, with the smallest buff being "only" a +60% boost to the boss health, but with most of them getting +400%. Some of the monsters have been tweaked slightly, like the Medusa whose petrify attack now always hits, which makes them quite formidable endgame monsters. Of course there's a spell to counter that.

But so far it's looking good.

 

[cvv]

After checking the readme I found that the mod beefs up every boss fight in the game, with the smallest buff being "only" a +60% boost to the boss health

It's not just bosses, I'm starting to consider a restart on Normal tbh. It's not the difficulty per se, more like the mobs are fucking health sponges and it's downright exhausting to grind them down. Like the first fire golem (or whatever it's called), in the secret area over the river)...I fought that dude for like 10 minutes straight. For about the same XP as for two ratlings. This is not fun. Plus most of the powerful spells I'm finding seem really late game, some of them requiring up to 10 skill points in various schools of magic. I'm not even sure....do I get more XP on Hard? I saw a video, dude got 90 XP for a mummy, I got 92 XP. So yeah...

 

[anvi]

I think Medium is the way to go. I just killed the Rat boss guy and he was tough! He could 1 hit my guys with his cannon if I stood in the way, and he had a huge amount of HP. So my only option was to kite him in circles for a while. I think on Hard it would just be a pain in the balls.

By the way I just figured out a way to really boost your guys!

Spoiler

I got teleport spell and time travel spell and stuff so I have been hunting down some of the special armor I missed from earlier. It is uber. But there is also a spell like blessing of stone or something which I have been using to buff my weapons. It transforms it from Longsword to something like Longsword of the Earth or something like that, with improved stats. But I just figured out, you can do it on your armor as well! So the already epic gear you get from secrets with the teleport spell etc, becomes super uber once you bless it as well.

It is powerful! My tank just gained about 100hp and lots of other stats too just by buffing all his gear.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

It's not just bosses, I'm starting to consider a restart on Normal tbh. It's not the difficulty per se, more like the mobs are fucking health sponges and it's downright exhausting to grind them down. Like the first fire golem (or whatever it's called), in the secret area over the river)...I fought that dude for like 10 minutes straight. For about the same XP as for two ratlings. This is not fun. Plus most of the powerful spells I'm finding seem really late game, some of them requiring up to 10 skill points in various schools of magic. I'm not even sure....do I get more XP on Hard? I saw a video, dude got 90 XP for a mummy, I got 92 XP. So yeah...

Yeah I remember that fight, took me 10 minutes as well, both on Hard and Normal. So far there's just the one of him though. The other rocklings are pushovers in comparison.

Funny thing, over in the Hamlet I found a secret area with Water Slimes - except for some reason their graphics were messed up and they looked like a monster out of The Abyss film.

Which reminds me, the Ogres over in the Hammlet have at least 1500 HP, probably more.

 

[Andak Raïnor]

Hi! I am pleased to see you are enjoying Magic of Grimrock so far

It is true that this mod is in fact some kind of demo for the multiple magic schools spells pack. I shared it as a resource for Legend of Grimrock 2 modders and the demo got additional features with time. You will see some of those spells or variants of them in other mods too (yes I worked on it to be as easy as possible to use and select/modify some of them to the tastes of each creator, it is not an all or nothing deal). For me it was also an opportunity to learn more about modding this game and get some feedback on this spells system (it should now be bug free). It is the main feature of the "real" custom mod I am working on named "Summoning". The others custom systems I added in Magic of Grimrock will also be in this mod.

About the difficulty: the extra stats for monsters only come from level scaling, but it is balanced against a new system for characters scaling too. You will see that the barbarian is not the only class that gets a +1 bonus stat per level to its main attribute for example. The only monsters that have been directly modified are the bosses (and the medusa petrify attack). All other differences you are experiencing compared to the vanilla game can only come from level scaling. Also, with the experience curve smoothing system, you can expect to reach very higher levels at the end of the game than in vanilla.

It appeared to me, after I watched a twitch play through of the mod that monsters, especially end game bosses became a real joke with the most powerful spells combined. To the point that it was possible to kill the Lindworm at the castle roof BEFORE it even could cast its protective shield - madness!!! So yes, those bosses in hard mode will require the usage of several spells to beat them reasonably quickly, or be patient and punch those sponges to death

Combining the different kinds of spells is the key to become overpowered; don't just focus on offensive spells, with a good selection of spells it is possible to tank ANYTHING even in hard mode! You have heal spells, energy regeneration spells, damage reduction/redirection spells, the vengeance spell that gives you more damage when you are damaged (even absorbed, reduced damage ), the might spell that doubles your attributes, haste/slow spells, enchantments to armors and weapons (and spoilers, you should also try to enchant sacks and wooden boxes with the air and earth enchantments!). All that combined makes your party a real killing machine!

(edit: the water slimes distortion effect works perfectly as intended, don't they look awesome like that?)

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Thanks for joining us in the discussion!

I was just about to post what could be a bug - the unusually high spawn rate of the spiders in the Crystal Mines, and the relation to the egg sacks. IIRC the readme says smash the egg sacks to "stop the invasion" - but the spiders keep respawning. Do I have to smash ALL the egg sacks in the mines, or is the increased spawn rate a just another thing to deal with?

Speaking of "deal with it"-things - were you serious with the flyswarm trap in the Desarune ruins? It's actually working as intended right now?

And for those complaining about long battles against HP sponges - there's a water canal in the Crystal Mines that has some monsters around, but the three crabs in the water are going to be a PAIN to kill, especially since the only weapons you can use are those oversized salad forks.

 

[Andak Raïnor]

Yeah the spiders respawn rate in the mine was not originally intended, but I kept it in a reduced version when I saw people having fun with it. It is a good occasion to use the zone damage combined with the buff spells, especially at the bottom map of the mine. It comes from a modification I copied from my other mod that redefines the eggs. They spawn those decorative baby spiders you can see on the floor. These babies become adult spiders after some delay when the party is far enough. When a spider is killed, the egg that spawned it will respawn a baby spider. When the egg is destroyed, it will finally spawn 7 babies, that's certainly why you don't directly see the invasion stopping immediately.

The mosquito puzzle in the archives is intended to be solved by the time bolt spell gained from the first ratling boss fight in the sewers, or brute forced. It is also a free source of experience. As for many vanilla and new challenges it is something you can skip and perhaps come back to later with more power or the right strategy to solve it.

It is the same thing with the three underwater crabs.

Spoiler

Water enchantment also makes any weapon usable under water, and a caster with underwater items in both hands can also cast spells underwater!

 

[anvi]

Hi! I am pleased to see you are enjoying Magic of Grimrock so far

You made the game into what it should have always been imo. Love you longtime.

p.s. I might make a video for you guys showing off my badass macros. I press one key and my party all cast complex spells in 1 second.

 

[anvi]

Learned something else new. Demonic Pact will stack! So you can cast it a few times and it drains hell out of your HP and replenishes lots of mana. Heals seem big enough to keep on top of it, just be careful not to kill yourself with it. I have it macroed now too so I can just press it when I need mana.

 

[Andak Raïnor]

All spells stack unless they say otherwise in the description. Some of them say only their duration is cumulative, and some of the most powerful ones say they don't stack at all.