Legend of Grimrock 2

[adddeed]

There are still shmucks bitching about the combat? Get good fool. Combat is awesome in the game, even better than the first one with many improvements and tweaks.

 

[---]

Yeah, it was pretty basic, but I didn't really dislike it.

Such a shame that a sequel hasn't yet been announced

 

[Maggot]

I enjoyed the combat mambo. I never beat it because I got stumped on some puzzle and need to give it another shot.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Such a shame that a sequel hasn't yet been announced

That's because they're not working on a LoG sequel, but making a new game engine from scratch. Once they know what they're gonna do with it, they'll announce their next game.

 

[V_K]

It never ceases to amuse me how according to this forum combat mambo in Grimrocks is shit but rolling around in Dark Souls is the best thing since sliced bread.

 

[Jasede]

Yeah, you tell them, V_K. I also don't get how on this stupid forum they defend retarded DooM, a game where you move around and use reflexes. It's not even turn-based.

Personally, I find that shameful.

 

[Siobhan]

For me, the worst puzzle was absolutely the one to get inside the Cemetery

That puzzle didn't take me very long, but I still don't like it because I don't understand how I solved it. I tried a couple of different interpretations of the hints, and eventually it worked for some reason. No big aha moment, no epiphany, just trial and error with some dumb luck. It reminded me of another game, Sokobond, which has many puzzles that can be solved accidentally without the slightest idea how you did it.

 

[Ludo Lense]

Hah

I wasted like 30 minutes on that stupid totem puzzle but I finished the

Spoiler

Scroll puzzle in the archives, the uhu/lam/te/ar thing

in 5 minutes. I don't know if I should feel smart or stupid.

I am gonna try and brute force the other door

Spoiler

I just need to figure out what Pala, Faam and Ko means

 

[Ludo Lense]

This game is way too damn long. Eotb and Grimrock I were between 10-15 hours and that was fine.

Spoiler

I am in the crypt. Graveyard entrance puzzle was meh. I haven't been to the pyramid, how much more game left?

 

[V_K]

Hard to tell because it's very non-linear.

Spoiler

See your automap for an approximation. In total there are about 20 full-scale areas (i.e. taking a full quadrant) and a dozen smaller locations.

 

[adddeed]

This game is way too damn long. Eotb and Grimrock I were between 10-15 hours and that was fine.

Spoiler

I am in the crypt. Graveyard entrance puzzle was meh. I haven't been to the pyramid, how much more game left?

Bro, just drop the game. Clearly you're bitching and not enjoying it. Its long and full of puzzles and full of "mambo". I loved it. You've bitched about all of these.

 

[---]

That's exactly what I was going to say. It's pretty long (my first playthrough lasted 25 hours - and I was pretty fast, compared to other people): if you didn't like it in the previous hours, surely the final parts won't satisfy you.

 

[Ivan]

I'm finding that "dropping a game" is something hard to do unless you've done it a few times. I mean, there's isn't much else in terms of media that one "drops," aside from a TV series. The first game that I recall really hating and hating myself for pushing through it was Far Cry 2 (incessant npc respawning). Now, it's still hard to do, but I can do it. I just did it with Morrowind. The more games you play the better you understand what you like about them: systems, dialogue, design, etc. I loved Grim Rock. It appealed to my enjoyment of being totally in the dark. Not knowing where to go first, looking for better weapons, and piecing together the map.

If you don't like the feeling of being lost, isolated, being without a goal in sight, drop it. Also, as --- says, don't expect the endgame to justify your experience.

 

[Whisper]

LoG1 is tight, you always know what to do, all puzzles make sense. Though combat is worse than Log2. But less puzzles and they are better than in LoG2.

 

[Ludo Lense]

This game is way too damn long. Eotb and Grimrock I were between 10-15 hours and that was fine.

Spoiler

I am in the crypt. Graveyard entrance puzzle was meh. I haven't been to the pyramid, how much more game left?

Bro, just drop the game. Clearly you're bitching and not enjoying it. Its long and full of puzzles and full of "mambo". I loved it. You've bitched about all of these.

I have a love hate relationship right now. It is a step up from LOG I in every way possible but it is also a lot sloppier pacing-wise. There are far worse puzzles than in 1 but a lot of better ones. Same goes for the combat situations.

 

[Ludo Lense]

Well that was fun. Given the way it ends and the obviously gated content I assume there is a true ending but c'est la vie.

As for leftover stuff...

Spoiler

-No idea how to get into the pyramid area. All I know from a statue is that the snakes can be awakened and that the key was lost from the letter. I tried going around the place at different times of day and even blowing that horn from the beach but hey no dice.
-No idea where the Shrine of Balance is. I learned from a statue that the simplest spell shows the way which I assume to be the single center rune spell. I tried spamming all over the place but I didn't find it. Probably in the pyramid.
-I have map showing Tetris blocks which fit with a certain part of the sewers map and there is a chest behind there but I couldn't figure it out.
-A note saying "A treasure chest long lost, guarded by 4 spirits of the bog". I have to dig up somewhere in the Bog
-A drawn map with a bridge on the right and a x marks the spot. Couldn't find it but I also didn't bother that much with this.
-No idea what you are supposed to do with the Forge of the Fallen Stars
-A note saying about the loneliest tree in the land where you can't hide from the sun. I assume the chest is in the desert. Which I assume is beyond the pyramid.
-From the ancient map I can tell the places I haven't been to are : Pyramid of Umas, Barren Desert, Everlasting Mists, Kraken's Arm, North Wall and the Shipeaters.
-A bunch of other secrets.

Although there is a lot to bitch and complain about I still like the game and I am big on exploration which is really well done. That being said I think I like LoG I better. It was a more smooth experience. LoG II has a lot more high points but a lot more low points as well. Still a good game though. Whatever they do next I pray they think about another system other than the combat mambo or at least try to minimize it via more puzzle like combat encounters since filler feels so tiring to to do.

Also does this game have any connection to Grimrock? Are the "they" the stones keep mentioning the cloaked guys from original game?

EDIT: I forgot to mention. Screw me for choosing hard and double screw me for going through desarune and beyond, doing or rather breezing through the bog as the last area before the castle.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Finding the key to the pyramid is, in my opinion, the dickiest puzzle in the game. The clues you mentioned are the only clues provided in the game.

To get in the pyramid...

In an underground area of the swamp you'll find a serpent staff or something similar that can spit venom. That's the key. You'll need it again inside the pyramid, so take it with you.

For the Shrine of Balance...

Check the floor, especially in a place of importance.

The other things are to find secrets, here are a few pointers.

For the Tetris puzzle...

The map describes a sequence. Repeat the sequence.

For the '4 bogs' puzzle...

The talking statues are either called guardians or spirits.

The Forge of Fallen Stars

Have you found the meteorite?

The loneliest tree in the land

It's located high up on a peak with no scenery surrounding/obstructing it. It's NOT in the desert.

And yes, there is a connection to the prequel, but you're not there yet to discover it.

 

[V_K]

Finding the key to the pyramid is, in my opinion, the dickiest puzzle in the game.

And given that the reward is a rendezvous with the medusas...

 

[Ludo Lense]

In retrospect, I dislike how barren the Island of Nex is. I will probably forget it real soon sadly. LoG at least had the dream sequences and Toorum's tale to add some mystery which all ended with a memorable boss in the sense that its gameplay logic was completely inversely proportional to its common sense logic. They really should have added some more world building. Like finding loot on the remains of previous adventurers rather than chests. Trying to tell stories without words, that sort of thing.

Puzzles can be very good story telling vectors if done correctly. For example, here is how I would have done the pyramid puzzle (not saying this was better but just to illustrate my point)

Spoiler

In a part of the world different than the Bog, say the Hamlet, put a talking head next to a tree. The Talking Head says "This tree is where the Runemaster of Umas ended his grief".
Then change the "Runemaster's Trial" to "Runemaster's Seal". Finally change the scepter to a usable object like the horn...say a black bell. Players might be tempted to ditch the weapon while an active object with no apparent use is a guaranteed carry in a puzzle oriented game. Ringing the bell in front of the pyramid opens it.

Now the puzzle challenges the player's exploration sense and perception in a logical manner. You need to find the black bell/the tree/one of the maps where the name Umas is mentioned and then put two and two together. But beyond that you also get a background story: something bad happened in the pyramid, the runemaster sealed it and the key to the seal and then hung himself.

 

[pippin]

Those disappointed with the fact that we might not get new Grimrock games should remember they have an editor. Make your own dungeons and share them with your bros!

 

[Unkillable Cat]

In retrospect, I dislike how barren the Island of Nex is. I will probably forget it real soon sadly. LoG at least had the dream sequences and Toorum's tale to add some mystery which all ended with a memorable boss in the sense that its gameplay logic was completely inversely proportional to its common sense logic. They really should have added some more world building. Like finding loot on the remains of previous adventurers rather than chests. Trying to tell stories without words, that sort of thing.

Puzzles can be very good story telling vectors if done correctly. For example, here is how I would have done the pyramid puzzle (not saying this was better but just to illustrate my point)

Spoiler

In a part of the world different than the Bog, say the Hamlet, put a talking head next to a tree. The Talking Head says "This tree is where the Runemaster of Umas ended his grief".
Then change the "Runemaster's Trial" to "Runemaster's Seal". Finally change the scepter to a usable object like the horn...say a black bell. Players might be tempted to ditch the weapon while an active object with no apparent use is a guaranteed carry in a puzzle oriented game. Ringing the bell in front of the pyramid opens it.

Now the puzzle challenges the player's exploration sense and perception in a logical manner. You need to find the black bell/the tree/one of the maps where the name Umas is mentioned and then put two and two together. But beyond that you also get a background story: something bad happened in the pyramid, the runemaster sealed it and the key to the seal and then hung himself.

This post is obviously made by someone who hasn't played through the Pyramid. I strongly recommend that you do so, if only so you can reach the top level and the subsequent Barren Desert map and see what's there.

You won't be disappointed.

Those disappointed with the fact that we might not get new Grimrock games should remember they have an editor. Make your own dungeons and share them with your bros!

Sadly the Grimrock community is all but dead, and most of that is due to one man leaving the community.

KOMAG brought the Grimrock community together, organized and inspired people to go do precisely what you're saying. As a result LoG1 has loads of fun custom dungeons. LoG2, while being the superior game engine with more resources available, has only a fraction of the custom dungeons available, and their quality is noticeably worse than for LoG1. Because KOMAG "retired" from the community to focus on his family just before LoG2 was released, and it took too many months for the devs to make LoG2's editor as versatile and powerful as LoG1 was, the community is only a fraction of the size it was four years ago.

 

[Ludo Lense]

...

Spoiler

People came to island, started to worship the current or a previous incarnation of the game master. He killed them all at some point, making them mummies that you fight in a huge battle which impressed me since I didn't know the engine could do that. There is an obvious plot hole in why would the game master let the Runemaster live but w/e I just made a story on the fly to demonstrate what I meant by combining a story and puzzle. If I thought a bit more about it I could probably make it fully "lore" friendly.

 

[Unkillable Cat]

He's not a game master, he's the Island Master. Why is he the Island Master? What's so important about this place? To get a better answer you might want to have a go at the True Ending. If you have 4 Power Stones and have found the last Shrine you're all set - the door in the hub will be open and the final fight awaits.

Beyond that, I disagree with you on how barren the isle is. What LoG2 does well is give you a great, cohesive view of the isle from a geographical perspective. Except for the southeastern corner of the isle, you could easily build an accurate model of the isle in the Unreal engine, just to give an example.

In terms of storytelling, LoG2 is well ahead of its predecessors, but so was LoG1. Let's do a few comparisons.

# Anvil of Dawn built a good world, but stretched itself a little too thin as it was trying to provide backstory for an entire continent.

# Stonekeep comes close, but it becomes very disjointed in the latter half.

# The Eye of the Beholder games (and first Lands of Lore) are laughably bad at this. Why are there Drow in EoB1? Or Mind Flayers? How can Dran Draggore imprison a clan of Frost Giants and NOT have them tear up the place?

# Dungeon Master 2 (the game LoG2 is based on) has all kinds of things going on in it, but I don't remember anything noteworthy about it except "Big Bad is in Skullkeep, go stop it".

 

[Darth Roxor]

Finding the key to the pyramid is, in my opinion, the dickiest puzzle in the game.

this

 

[CryptRat]

I didn't manage to enter the pyramid. Will have to try again someday.