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Baldur's Gate Let's DISCUSS Infinity Engine combat and Baldur's Gate with random noobs

Goblino

Savant
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
327
It would be better if it was turn based. Also, not to ride Pope John Paul Mole's nuts, but I think the constant referring to PoE is really distracting from the discussion. You don't play games like that for deep systems. Let's face it, BG and ID are basically diablo with a learning curve and a delay of gratification. I like Fear and I like Stalker, just because they both feature guns and spookies doesn't mean I have to hate Fear for its weaker mechanics. Let us not forget that we play games to have fun.
 

DeepOcean

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2012
Messages
7,395
It would be better if it was turn based. Also, not to ride Pope John Paul Mole's nuts, but I think the constant referring to PoE is really distracting from the discussion. You don't play games like that for deep systems. Let's face it, BG and ID are basically diablo with a learning curve and a delay of gratification. I like Fear and I like Stalker, just because they both feature guns and spookies doesn't mean I have to hate Fear for its weaker mechanics. Let us not forget that we play games to have fun.
Play BG Dark Alliance and you will see what is a BG game that looks like Diablo. Diablo with deeper systems is WoW, guarantee you that even soloing BG 2 requires more strategy than hammering the left mouse button.
 

Lhynn

Arcane
Joined
Aug 28, 2013
Messages
9,852
Actually gameplay for diablo 1 is fairly underrated. It relied a lot in positioning and mixed groups of enemies each with their own quirk and was fairly challenging, even for an experienced player. It had a proper challenge curve that made the start of the game easy but the endgame really dangerous for any class or player provided that they didnt cheat, it also presented multiple spikes in challenge that were completely optional, and dying always presented an interesting adventure, because you had to retrieve all your equipped gear at the exact same spot where you lost it.

Amazing game really.
 

Goblino

Savant
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
327
Gonna get flak for this one. To start off, I hate Diablo and can barely invest myself in BG/IWD, but I believe RTwP just creates an illusion of thinking. I guaran-damn-tee you that if the pathing and ai could follow basic fucking logic then BG and IWD would be no more tactical than choosing from the small handful of useful spells to use while your party maintains a proper fucking formation. I'll be honest, I never beat BG1 or any IWD. I got to the Baldurs gate, and lost my savegame by trying a new build, but when I asked myself if I was having fun enough to try again, the answer was no. Above all things I have to have control of the game at every second of playtime. RTwP is about as in control as rolling downhill in an outhouse. The gameplay of either series isnt deep at all, the shitty ad&d classes demand that you reroll to min max your shit, and theres not enough roleplay to warrant using things like charisma or intelligence if your class so much as involves a weapon. I respect them for what they are, but I think diablo is more reactive and provides more builds and is overall better at gameplay. BG is only lauded for its narrative, which is ok.
 

Ninjerk

Arcane
Joined
Jul 10, 2013
Messages
14,323
Not everyone around here likes BG. I can never bring myself to play it for any length of time.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
I feel like I have control in RTwP in the sense that a special needs teacher has control in his classroom

Like Edwin is done with his activity, I have to be on the lookout to give him another sheet to draw or he'll eat the crayons/sit there catatonic, all while I also keep watch on the other kids
 

Sensuki

Arcane
Joined
Oct 26, 2012
Messages
9,800
Location
New North Korea
Codex 2014 Serpent in the Staglands Shadorwun: Hong Kong A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
BG1's biggest strength is the exploration and world design IMO

He55za0.jpg
 

crakkie

Arcane
Joined
Nov 20, 2004
Messages
1,608
Location
Louisiana
I remember half of those maps being filled with nothing but one or two gibberling/knoll mobs or a pointless scripted encounter (you find Drizzt killing a trash mob! Try to kill him for his swords if you want!).

It seemed like an amazing amount of effort (art-wise) for almost no gameplay.
 

Goblino

Savant
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
327
Nothing in bg1 really compelled me to explore. It's mostly trees and trash mobs. The only reasons to explore are to grind or root out a useful companion.

^^^^^^^ muh nigga right there beat me to it
 

hoverdog

dog that is hovering, Wastelands Interactive
Developer
Joined
Jul 8, 2010
Messages
5,589
Location
Jordan, Minnesota
Project: Eternity
I remember half of those maps being filled with nothing but one or two gibberling/knoll mobs or a pointless scripted encounter (you find Drizzt killing a trash mob! Try to kill him for his swords if you want!).

It seemed like an amazing amount of effort (art-wise) for almost no gameplay.
oh boy, here we go again

GarfunkeL
 

ArchAngel

Arcane
Joined
Mar 16, 2015
Messages
19,998
I feel like I have control in RTwP in the sense that a special needs teacher has control in his classroom

Like Edwin is done with his activity, I have to be on the lookout to give him another sheet to draw or he'll eat the crayons/sit there catatonic, all while I also keep watch on the other kids
That says more about you than the game. It just means you are such a slow and pathetic RTS gamer, even a RTS with a pause is too hard for you.
 
Self-Ejected

CptMace

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 17, 2015
Messages
1,278
Location
Die große Nation
I remember half of those maps being filled with nothing but one or two gibberling/knoll mobs or a pointless scripted encounter (you find Drizzt killing a trash mob! Try to kill him for his swords if you want!).

It seemed like an amazing amount of effort (art-wise) for almost no gameplay.

If only it wasn't mandatory to explore them. Although I don't get why people can't see the design logic behind wilderness areas.
BG was about porting a traditional DnD campaign to PC, the game uses and laughs at most pnp games tropes and clichés with one of 'em being adventuring in the wilderness at low level until a deadly fumble results in a bear ripping your character apart. Wilderness areas in BG are about catching that feel (and imo is a better way to do it than simple random encounters), needless to say wilderness areas didn't have any reason to be present in the sequel as well, since a veteran party of adventurers need suitable challenge.

Still consider these wilderness areas to make perfect sense considering what BG wanted to achieve.
 

Doctor Sbaitso

SO, TELL ME ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS.
Patron
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
3,348
Codex 2013 Codex 2014 PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Serpent in the Staglands
I liked Darklands RTwP because it was fast and deadly. Often battles were won or lost very quickly, especially beginning through mid-game. The sense of urgency and peril worked. No other RTwP RPG I have played has met the mark.
 

agris

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Apr 16, 2004
Messages
6,810
The early SitS game is like that, you win or lose quickly. That's where a lot of the complaints about killer foxes and wolves come from. It's people whose PC is being slaughtered because they didn't take Catalina (tank) and/or Vilhelm (ranged/healing) or create any avatars.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I feel like I have control in RTwP in the sense that a special needs teacher has control in his classroom

Like Edwin is done with his activity, I have to be on the lookout to give him another sheet to draw or he'll eat the crayons/sit there catatonic, all while I also keep watch on the other kids
This is a rather apt description.
 

GarfunkeL

Racism Expert
Joined
Nov 7, 2008
Messages
15,463
Location
Insert clever insult here
I remember half of those maps being filled with nothing but one or two gibberling/knoll mobs or a pointless scripted encounter (you find Drizzt killing a trash mob! Try to kill him for his swords if you want!).

It seemed like an amazing amount of effort (art-wise) for almost no gameplay.
oh boy, here we go again

GarfunkeL
Thanks for the tag.

I should just make a big post that I can copy/paste everytime some retard who played BG when they were 9 years old repeats this bullshit.

northofgnollstronghold.gif


Talk to Neville. You can ask that his men come out of hiding and his troupe will attack, or demand all his gold in which case he steals 55gp and leaves.

Talk to the Ogre. He is not interested in fighting. If you want assistance you can tackle Laurel's quest first but do not talk to her once you have helped her. If she sees the Ogre (once he turns hostile) she will attack him. However if she kills him then you will not gain the experience. Talk to him again and he will attack. Kill him.

Talk to Laurel. If your Reputation is less than 8 she will attack you. Otherwise she asks for your help to kill some Gibberlings. Agree. Kill the Gibberlings that arrive. Once they are all dead talk to her again.

Jared will approach you. He is running scared of a bear over the bridge west of his location. Kill the bear. Return and talk to Jared.

x_5400.jpg


Use the exact location x 166 y 177 to find a wand hidden in a hole in a tree.

Enter the cabin AR5406. Kill the War Dogs. Raid the two barrels.

Talk to Prism the sculptor. You can either tell him you will defend him when the bounty hunter Greywolf arrives, or kill him yourself, or let Greywolf kill him. If you choose to face Greywolf you will have to kill him, then talk to Prism who will die shortly after. Collect his emeralds. Return to Oublek in Nashkel.

Galtok is on the run from some Kobolds. Kill them.

x_3000.jpg


Talk to Fahrington. He has lost a scroll to a thieving Tasloi. If your NPC Reaction is 1-7 he will not tell you his troubles but you can still return the scroll to him. Head east and kill an Ettercap (higher up the food chain) who now has the scroll. Return to Fahrington with the scroll.

Denak will hail you then these mages will attack on sight (unless Edwin from Nashkel is in your party).

x_1700.jpg


Enter the cave AR4501. Kill the Wyverns. Search the corpse. Collect a Wyvern Head and take it to Kelddath at the Song of the Morning in Temple.

Hamadryad is not marked on the map, she's a fun encounter as well.

x_3600.jpg


Pallonia will approach you and talk of forces at work.

Killing the Sirines is part of Cordyr's sidequest (from Baldur's Gate) but can be completed before you meet him. Sil will hail you then she and her Sirines will attack. Kill them. If you were sent by Cordyr return to him at the Baldur's Gate Docks.

Enter the cave AR3601. Kill the Flesh Golems. Raid the pool for treasures.

You will need a male in the party to talk to this Chaotic Neutral Human Thief. She wants to recover some treasure from a cave to the NW of this map. You can recruit her or dismiss her. If you do not want her then strip her of her possessions and dismiss her.

Talk to Arkshule who will read your palm. If you pressure her to reveal more when she pauses she will attack - dialogue options 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 1. Kill her.

Talk to Ardrouine. Her son is trapped by some Worgs near the Lighthouse. Agree to help and go and kill the Worgs. Return to Ardrouine.

x_1400.jpg


Talk to this Lawful Good Human Paladin. You can recruit him or dismiss him. If he leaves the party because of unhappiness he will attack any evil aligned members he sees. There is also a random chance he will attack evil party members while he is in the group.

Talk to Sonner. He will complain about a witch affecting their fishing. Evil people can agree to dispose of the witch for 20gp. Head north to Wyrm's Crossing and speak to Tenya. After her sidequest, talk to Sonner again and say the priestess had much to say. Evil people can ask him to sweeten the deal and he will add 100gp, in which case you should talk to him again after Tenya is dead. Good people will demand the fishermen (Sonner, Jebadoh and Telmen) hand over Tenya's bowl. Then kill them for being cruel to her. Return the bowl to Tenya.

Talk to Brun. He has lost his son. Enter the pit AR1401 to the west of his farm. Kill lots of Ankhegs. Collect his son's body from an alcove x 2460 y 140. Return with the body. Talk to Brun. You can offer him 100gp as an act of charity. Beware if you have any Ruby Rings as they will automatically be included in your gift to him unless you drop them on the floor before you talk to him.

Talk to Gerde. She wants you to cull some Ankhegs. Kill as many as you find. Return and talk to her again.

If only it wasn't mandatory to explore them. Although I don't get why people can't see the design logic behind wilderness areas.
BG was about porting a traditional DnD campaign to PC, the game uses and laughs at most pnp games tropes and clichés with one of 'em being adventuring in the wilderness at low level until a deadly fumble results in a bear ripping your character apart. Wilderness areas in BG are about catching that feel (and imo is a better way to do it than simple random encounters), needless to say wilderness areas didn't have any reason to be present in the sequel as well, since a veteran party of adventurers need suitable challenge.

Still consider these wilderness areas to make perfect sense considering what BG wanted to achieve.
Yes. this exactly. Too many games pack their tiny maps full of "content" so that the ADHD generation doesn't have to pause to think or reflect. If there isn't AWSUM happening every 2 minutes, their attention span will burn out.
 

Goblino

Savant
Joined
Jun 22, 2015
Messages
327
Yes. this exactly. Too many games pack their tiny maps full of "content" so that the ADHD generation doesn't have to pause to think or reflect. If there isn't AWSUM happening every 2 minutes, their attention span will burn out.

Yeah, but none of that shit was fun. BG is boring as hell. Those slow walk animations and tons of samey textures make it dull. The choices presented in the game, and the amount of content don't save it from being a dull slog. The curve at the beginning of the game serves to make it tedious and showcase how flavorless the classes are. Flavorless classes means not giving a shit about my character. I will admit that I agree about how cool it was to see crpg meet pnp, but it's still a dull game. I had some fun, but the highs and lows were far apart. People will defend boring crpgs to the end of time, but the truth is, if a game isn't immediately engaging and reactive, it has failed its number one job. Games like this are like eating a big tray of boiled crabs, the meat is delicious and sweet, but by the time you peel it all away, it's gone cold and you aren't hungry anymore.
 

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