Let's Play Betrayal At Krondor (COMPLETED)

[Wyrmlord]

At Northwarden-

Duke Martin is just a while outside the castle.

We find a cave on our way to find Tamney The Minstrel.

which is somewhere here:

Inside these small elven halls:

we find these:

There is a barn in Dencamp-On-The-Teeth.

And we try to open it.

We go back to Martin, so he can get us some better job than running around finding some bloody jongleur.

There are some goblins on the road to Ragalam.

We bribe them.

With Owyn and Gorath already out of there, now it is Locklear and James' turn to see the Northlands.

And they come out around here:

This odd contraption is right there in the middle of the road.

However, we end up finding this:

somewhere here:

We put that object to good use.

The catapult hits this house:

Time to inform Martin about the newly found plans.

So in this house here:

And this happens.

Who become a dead huddled pack of moredhel casters.

Finally:

And back at the castle:

 

[Erebus]

Ah, the Book of Macros. What a stupid clue that was, Pug. Seriously, what were you thinking ? "Yeah, I'm going to recklessly embark on a dangerous journey and the only precaution I'll take in case it turns out to be more than I can handle is leaving nonsensical words on the wall in the hope that the right people will read it and travel through half the kingdom in order to understand what they mean !" Brilliant !

Didn't remember there was a reference to the Empire trilogy (Mara of the Acoma is its main character).

 

[abdwef]

Ah, the Book of Macros. What a stupid clue that was, Pug. Seriously, what were you thinking ? "Yeah, I'm going to recklessly embark on a dangerous journey and the only precaution I'll take in case it turns out to be more than I can handle is leaving nonsensical words on the wall in the hope that the right people will read it and travel through half the kingdom in order to understand what they mean !" Brilliant !

 

[Wyrmlord]

Does anybody here know the cost of giving a level 3 blessing to a Guarda Revanche? I just blessed a Sword Of Lims-Kragma to level 3, and I wonder if I will have enough money left to bless the Guarda Revanche.

 

[Mikser]

Does anybody here know the cost of giving a level 3 blessing to a Guarda Revanche? I just blessed a Sword Of Lims-Kragma to level 3, and I wonder if I will have enough money left to bless the Guarda Revanche.

Don't bother with it. The Guarda sword actually came with the level 3 blessing in the early versions of the game, but the blessing was removed because an integer overflow bug actually causes it to heal some enemies. This could make things very tricky indeed if Owyn/Pug are low on health/stamina.

Edit: I realise that did not necessarily answer your question, so if you're willing to give it a try regardless, the cheapest place according to the formula to get the +3 blessing is the chapel of Ishap at Malac's Cross, for 1010 sovereigns (10 + 0.5 * 2000).

 

[Wyrmlord]

Yeah, just inside the forest of Elvandar right now, and let me just give you an idea of what a giant thickly clustered forest it is.

Here is what you see in any given point of time in the forest:

Nothing, but the trees two feet in front of you.

And when you zoom out at the maximum possible area, to see everything that is in half a day's walk of you, you see this:

Most of the forest is vast and unmarked, save for the endless thicket of trees.

And if I consult the world map,

I see just that I am on a relatively miniscule distance away from the town that is one day away from where I am.

Without doubt the most giant virtual forest I have experienced in a game. All I can do is watch my compass, and move in the appropriate direction.

This is not an empty forest, it is littered with stuff, but they are all 50 feet away from each other, and you can be walking through this massive forest and not find a thing.

There are special spells to detect the presence of any conspicuous object in the middle of the forest, be it a treehouse, a chest, a tent, a digout, or anything. When you use those spells, it is denoted on the local map with big red dots.

A big red dot, meaning that you could walk in its direction, and you'd still only be 10 feet near it. This is not a problem in the rest of the game, but when you have trees covering it up, you're still barely anywhere near it, and the said object might be a feet wide chest or even a very small and thin rope that leads up to a treehouse.

You know, all those seafaring stories about men who try to find a 10 mile long island in the middle of a 10,000 mile latitude of an ocean, using their map, charting, and a corrected compass? This is something like that; you'll only have a general direction at best, and you'd be lucky to be in a bare vicinity of it.

This is some incredibly ballsy stuff. Games are normally about pretending to make a big achievement; this is about actually doing it.

 

[Wyrmlord]

Guys, it has been a long time, but I just finished a massive update, and it is going to be uploaded soon. I guess it is an epic time for an epic update, but either way, this LP is still going on, in case the two or three people following it are still interested.

 

[Eldritch]

Carry on the good fight Komrad Sergeant Sameer Stukov Shostakovich. It's not like only the shit games should be liberated with an LP.

I'm actually replaying this right now when I find the time, and this LP honestly serves me as a good guide if I'm stuck p. bad once in a while. It's been ancient history since I've first played it, I don't remember shit.

 

[ghostdog]

I'm definitely one of the three.

 

[Erebus]

UPDATE !



(Seriously, I love this LP !)

 

[Wyrmlord]

Gorath and Owyn start their investigation in the sewers.

The rogue says that the lower level to the sewers is open. If we go there, we might find something of value. Consider that just when the Mockers were about to find the Crawler, a tidal wave happened, frustrated their plans, and opened up that level of sewers. The Crawler has thieves trained as magicians. and there is probably no such thing as luck when magic is involved.

Here it is.

A chest. We see if it can be opened.

The Idol Of Lassur. The Crawler was looking for this thing and demanded it be delivered to the serpent people before it was too late. It is probably of value to one of them.

We decide to leave, and start heading out of the sewers, when we run into one of the Crawler's magicians herself.

Abbot Graves has written books on magic, and would have a good idea of what the Book Of Macros is. We have to find him.

We now go to meet the royal tax collector at the bar, where he is usually found.

Not that I actually intended to find one key, since I am already on the way to find Abbot Graves, but nonetheless, a dead body is seen right outside Krondor.

These items here.

With Nivek's key among them.

So...

Somebody wanted to get access to a treasury office, and hereby framed the royal collector himself for murder, after obtaining whatever information they wanted.

We need to check on Eggley later as well.

In the meantime, we decide to magically jump to Graves' place.

Something is magically stopping the temple of Graves from being reached. Graves may have bit off more than he could chew by working with the Crawler and sending his magician after him, and probably some magical associate of Graves is after him. Except Graves is the one who trains them; so could it be some other magicians stronger than them?

We instead teleport somewhere near.

Now to find Graves. On the way to Malac's Cross, right outside we find the source of the magical disturbance.

Observe this figure.

Pantathian it is called, or more specifically

It is the serpent men associated with the Crawler himself. They are here to recover some due debts. We kill them whilst entering Malac's Cross.

So be it then. We consult the Oracle of Aal on the way.

So while Makala, whom we know from the beginning of the game to be a traitor, has openly acted against Pug, we find that it has led Pug to being lost into a Valheru world in search of his daughter, the Valheru whose presence is sensed in Sethanon, and who could themselves be at the root of what is causing the moredhel to seek Sethanon for their old leader Murmurandus. The Book of Macros was Pug's way of ensuring that someone would save him, in case he ended up in problems.

The Abbey of Sarth is also now referred to be a useful way of finding a solution to this.

Meanwhile, at Waylander's

WHAT?

The Guarda Revanche? The sword that Navon du Sandou was searching for, the one mentioned in the abbot's diary, which was supposedly found by the lockphrase of GLAMREDHEL? The Crawler also wants that old elven sword?

Also,

The elven Warlord Tomas, is it? The same person who transferred the spirit of the Oracle of Aal into Rhuargh the dragon? The Oracle of Aal himself, the last of a race decimated by the Valheru. And now Pug is in a former Valheru land itself. If this signifies something, it means Tomas is a key to finding this old Valheru land where Pug is lost, and knows something about the means of reaching it. Since that means is also supposed to be the Book of Macros, it means Tomas must be the man in possession of it. But where does Tomas live? That is something for which, we must ask the Abbey at Sarth

Anyway, without losing sight of our existing goals, we do have to see why there is a conspiracy that involved framing the tax collector himself. We first inquire on that at Eggley.

We use Nivek's key.

and find this note:

Mac Bourgalan Dok is the name for the mine at Sarth, as Naddur Ban Dok told us in Chapter 1 or 2 itself. Sarth is where we are headed at anyway to find the Abbey, so we head on. Maybe we'll see what comes through that section of the mines.

Right outside Sarth however,

Ah, so the map from Eggley will let us see the tunnel entrance to Sarth. We'll use it.

We've been to the mines before, and we find that particular tunnel entrance.

We are currently in the library of Sarth, so we decide to consult here for information on the Book of Macros, and Tomas.

The way to Elvandar is towards or near the Tsurani garrison fort at the northwest frontier, and that is the place where we now have to return.

Gorath says that the eledhel are enemies of moredhel, and yet does not seem to have any reluctance in going to the very capitol of the leader of eledhel herself. Obviously, he wouldn't be so reluctant, considering all the hints that he once already may have betrayed the moredhel for the eledhel at one time.

At Mac Mordain Cadal, south of LaMut:

On coming out of the mines, with our torches still burning and illuminating a small area in the woods, we come across Caldara, the first milestone on the road to Elvandar.

We find Naddur's brother right at the front of the town.

So in the situation so far, moredhel have invaded the elven forest for heaven's knows what, Tomas is recuperating at Elvandar, a Prince Calin is out there fighting moredhel for several days, and there is a sleeping glades set up in a certain region, which causes intruders to fall asleep, so as to prevent them from entering.

Going up far north to the map, we run into an elf:

It is Calin.

This man KNOWS Gorath. He recognised him as a moredhel. Gorath HAS been here before.

Again, Gorath has been here before. Note how Calin says that the magic that prevents moredhel from entering the elven forest would require enormous force of will to conquer. Such enormous force of will that it has aged Gorath by many many years, even though he is a generation younger than a Delekhan, who in fact looks old enough to be Gorath's son.

So be it. Since all normal roads to Elvandar are infested with endless moredhel and wyverns, it is best to simply avoid it, go to the fork of the river, walk parallel to a mountain closely to avoid the magical sleeping defenses, enter an ancient Valheru cave, go the end of it, and enter Elvandar.

We head towards the western direction from the south, when something strange happens in the forest.

This is the strange sight we see, close to the river.

The spellcaster is found.

With this on his person

So...

Now, to follow Calin's advice.

Here we are.

Whilst inside this ancient Valheru ruin, one of the main characters remembers something from an Abbot's journal found in Cavall Run very early in the game.

That's when we come across a chest.

And as the Abbot's journal tells us the answer-

This is what we find:

Using the Rusalki's shell on this sword:

This comes out:

The Guarda Revanche, found nowhere else but the Valheru ruin itself. A sword which cursed elves to murder each other - an ancient Valheru vengeance against the elven people. This is what the Crawler wanted, what the Pantathians wanted. At the heart of so many things, there are the Valheru, and it seems the Pantathians are also at the root of the same Valheru awakenings that happen in Sethanon, that seem to also draw the moredhel to think their old leader Murmurandus is there, who may well himself have had something to do with the Valheru.

It won't be in anyone else's hands now, and we come to the end of this ruin.

WHAT WE HAVE GATHERED SO FAR:
- The Tsurani rift machine used and guarded by moredhel is in the middle of Dimwood forest.
- Gorath had intended to save the members of his tribe from being persecuted by Delekhan, and hence led an escape for them into the elven forest, so they could live life as eledhel rather than as oppressed moredhel. It cost him dearly forever, but now he has been given the chance to live as an eledhel himself once the quest is resolved.
- Pantathians and Valheru are at the heart of disturbances in the kingdom.

Coming up is a chapter I am a little reluctant to do, because it involves finding that miniscule rift machine hidden in the middle of nowhere in the forest.

To be continued...

 

[Unkillable Cat]

Oh good.

*grabs some popcorn*

 

[Wyrmlord]

Bad Request

Your browser sent a request that this server could not understand.

What I still get on trying to access my albums here:
http://s692.photobucket.com/albums/vv288/BAKLP/

I just don't get it.

 

[Wyrmlord]

The issue has been resolved. The update is in complete form.

 

[Erebus]

As I mentioned before, the Book of Macros was a stupid clue. If it was meant for Tomas, why leave it in Krondor ?

While your conclusions are very interesting, I don't quite agree with all of them. Calin knowing Gorath for a moredhel doesn't mean he has seen him before : all elves can tell the difference between them and their evil cousins. Also, when Gorath speaks of his "returning", I think he's referring to the process by which a moredhel becomes an eledhel. Gorath has led his people to safety through the skirts of the eledhel forest, but I believe that's all.

 

[Wyrmlord]

As I mentioned before, the Book of Macros was a stupid clue. If it was meant for Tomas, why leave it in Krondor ?

While your conclusions are very interesting, I don't quite agree with all of them. Calin knowing Gorath for a moredhel doesn't mean he has seen him before : all elves can tell the difference between them and their evil cousins. Also, when Gorath speaks of his "returning", I think he's referring to the process by which a moredhel becomes an eledhel. Gorath has led his people to safety through the skirts of the eledhel forest, but I believe that's all.

I think you are pretty justified in not agreeing with me, because I am simply making assumptions that might allow the game to connect together, and my knowledge of Midkemian lore is not much further than this game itself.

I did not know that moredhel were people who were once eledhel, so I decided to consult the Midkemia Wiki. So it seems that the Moredhel are elves who swore loyalty to the Valheru, and then started collecting old Valheru relics, so that they could gain the evil powers inherent in them.

I am curious - if moredhel are innately bound by the dark powers of the Valheru, why would they feel the same dread as the eledhel in entering the subterranean Valheru ruin? If they were loyal to the Valheru in the old days, so they would not have had anything to fear or dread from them, would they?

Also, I had absolutely no idea Tomas was human. This was not ever mentioned in the game. Why would the elves respect and be in such awe of a human?

 

[Erebus]

I am curious - if moredhel are innately bound by the dark powers of the Valheru, why would they feel the same dread as the eledhel in entering the subterranean Valheru ruin? If they were loyal to the Valheru in the old days, so they would not have had anything to fear or dread from them, would they?

It's been a long time since I've read the books. I think both eledhel and moredhel are afraid of Valheru ruins because they remember very well just how evil and powerful the Valheru were. The moredhel (unlike the Panthatian serpentmen) have no desire to see the Valheru come back and enslave them again.

Also, I had absolutely no idea Tomas was human. This was not ever mentioned in the game. Why would the elves respect and be in such awe of a human?

Tomas is one of the main characters in the first Midkemia books. He and Pug were childhood friends (in Crydee, a city far west). Near the beginning of the war against the Tsurani, the ruler of Crydee (Arutha's father) sent a party to Krondor to call for help. Tomas was among them. As the party crossed the subterranean galleries under the mountains, he got lost, met the ancient dragon Rhuagh (mentioned at some point in the game), witnessed his death of old age and found the weapons of Ashen-Shugar, one of the Valheru. The spirit of Ashen-Shugar more or less merged with him, granting him the powers of the Valheru. Tomas later found himself in Elvandar, which he helped protect against the Tsurani. The Queen and him fell in love and got married. The spirit of Ashen-Shugar threatened to completely possess him, but, in the end, Tomas remained in control (much to the relief of the elves).

(The spirit merge thing between Tomas and Ashen-Shugar was apparently orchestrated by Macros, a hugely powerful wizard. It had strong effects on both of them, despite the barrier of time : Ashen-Shugar grew more human and eventually turned away from his brethren.)

Later, Tomas played a role in preventing Murmandamus (a Panthatian magically disguised as a moredhel) from freeing the Valheru from the Lifestone (that's what's hidden in Sethanon). He lost part of his powers back then. Unlike Pug, I don't think he appears much in later books.

He has a son with Aglaranna, although he must be very young at the time of BaK.


A word about the Lifestone, since I'm in the mood for memories : it was the supreme weapon created by the Valheru (all of them except for Ashen-Shugar) in their war against the gods (who were newcomers compared to them). The Valheru bound their lives to the stone and it can be used to make them return to the physical world. When Murmandamus got close to the stone, one of the Valheru (Ashen-Shugar's son) managed to escape and tried to free the others. Tomas slew him (again) by driving his sword through his body and the Lifestone itself (the sword is still there at the time of BaK, as everybody fears what might happen if it is removed).

 

[ShavenApe]

:D

Moar! Moar!

 

[SCO]

Did you get the most powerful spell in the game in Evandar forest?

 

[Wyrmlord]

Firestorm?

Yes. That spell is like pressing the Win button, but you have to find it.

It's in a very obscure encounter on the north of the map. There is also a well that can be used infinitely for as much strength you want, I believe. It's not a big bonus goodie; in some ways, you need it, because the pantathians are tough-skinned, and you don't want to drag a fight too long in that desolate wasteland.

 

[vazquez595654]

Betrayal at Krondor is the only game with a story and graphics that I thought were done maturely.

All other games just come across as silly. From Fallout's silly dialogue and cartoony graphics, to Arcanum's wacky characters and animations. Even Torment had really wacky animation and controls. Although I would say it comes in a far second in terms of writing and story.

I enjoyed Torment's writing and some of the story, but there was a little too much fluff in the descriptions. Some of the conversations were a little too long.

It's been said that Betrayal at Krondor has more writing than Torment, but the way it is handled, it always feels important and worthy to read. I think maybe because most of the writing is in the form of conversation with characters speaking in the now, telling you what is currently happening at the moment, as opposed to Torment where characters tend to speak at you, as if they are spewing a speech describing the world or themselves. Which is great, but it doesn't really make you feel like you are there in the moment, it takes away that sense of urgency to pay attention, and doesn't really move the story along.

Why does it seem like Betrayal at Krondor is the only game with an extremely well developed mature story? While I enjoyed The Hobbit, it just comes across as fairy tale ish. I throw Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings in the same basket. They both seem very simplistic in their storytelling and characters.

Does anyone know of any other games that had a similar approach?

 

[Wyrmlord]

Betrayal at Krondor is the only game with a story and graphics that I thought were done maturely.

All other games just come across as silly. From Fallout's silly dialogue and cartoony graphics, to Arcanum's wacky characters and animations. Even Torment had really wacky animation and controls. Although I would say it comes in a far second in terms of writing and story.

I enjoyed Torment's writing and some of the story, but there was a little too much fluff in the descriptions. Some of the conversations were a little too long.

It's been said that Betrayal at Krondor has more writing than Torment, but the way it is handled, it always feels important and worthy to read. I think maybe because most of the writing is in the form of conversation with characters speaking in the now, telling you what is currently happening at the moment, as opposed to Torment where characters tend to speak at you, as if they are spewing a speech describing the world or themselves. Which is great, but it doesn't really make you feel like you are there in the moment, it takes away that sense of urgency to pay attention, and doesn't really move the story along.

Why does it seem like Betrayal at Krondor is the only game with an extremely well developed mature story? While I enjoyed The Hobbit, it just comes across as fairy tale ish. I throw Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings in the same basket. They both seem very simplistic in their storytelling and characters.

Does anyone know of any other games that had a similar approach?

The game has absolutely avoided all possible cliches.

They didn't Gorath some sort of anti-social anti-hero with a secret heart of gold ruptured by years of mistreatment. Gorath was just a moredhel who got ruined because of years of moredhel subservience. He doesn't go into angsty withdrawals and then tearful confessions a la alot such emo characters. He in fact comes off as frank and practical.

The villain of this game is a deeply evil man, and none of that good-guy-turned-bad-because-of-grey-moral-ambiguity nonsense that you see in KotOR 1/2 or other such BioWare/Obsidian games. He is however very logical about why he wanted to do what he wanted to do,

Even that return of an evil ancient race angle was cleanly avoided, because nobody in the game ever intended to bring them back.

Most of all, like you said, it avoids long monologues that are used to fully expose the plot that Obsidian and Black Isle have a habit of doing.

 

[ShavenApe]

Moar?

MOAR!!!!!

 

[Wyrmlord]

Re: Moar?

MOAR!!!!!

You are going to get moar soon.

I just finished the Chapter 7 captures, and now I am going to transform those images and upload them soon.

Pardon me, it took only one sitting to finish it, but Chapter 7 is a rather boring part of the game on replays, so I delayed this for quite a long while.

 

[Angthoron]

A pity I've never played this game before, it's been looking really interesting so far. I might be trying it out later, however, I've been curious and not quite certain about one thing - are the dialogues linear, or is it possible to do things differently from the dialogue choices we see you make?