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KickStarter Lords of Xulima

neucifer

Novice
Joined
Apr 23, 2014
Messages
34
Have the devs fixed the load times for this game yet? When I played I was waiting 30+ seconds to load any battle and sometimes up to a minute for new maps. Added to the sloginess factor which there was quite a bit of already, but I beat it anyway...

Edit: It goes without saying I'm playing on a bare-bones laptop.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
Knowledge of Terrain is also essential to explore certain areas, but no need to max out entirely, leave a few points empty in case you find books later down the road.
I don't understand what's essential about it. It just saves you walking a few steps to lift the fog. Entirely pointless, as far as I could tell.
I think you are confusing it with Exploration. Knowledge of Terrains decreases the malus from walking on a rough terrain. Exploration gives you a bigger sight radius and also lets you find treasures randomly. It's useless but the treasure finding is fun.
 

GlutenBurger

Cipher
Joined
May 8, 2010
Messages
644
Oh yes, so I was. Knowledge of Terrains is definitely essential. Especially when you get to that frigging puzzle in the desert.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
So Gaulen can be only explorer. My plans for bard hero is dust already.
Yes, Gaulen is a bit of a doofus :)

How useful have you guys found Learning? I had my characters in the range of 3 levels based on various things like lockpick xp or arena xp and I guess learning xp.. I'm not sure if it's worth it but you usually have plenty skill points for it..
 

Monocause

Arcane
Joined
Aug 15, 2008
Messages
3,656
So Gaulen can be only explorer. My plans for bard hero is dust already.
Yes, Gaulen is a bit of a doofus :)

How useful have you guys found Learning? I had my characters in the range of 3 levels based on various things like lockpick xp or arena xp and I guess learning xp.. I'm not sure if it's worth it but you usually have plenty skill points for it..

I've had a long debate about learning with someone, around page 30 I think. My take is that the gains are so negligible that learning's essentially worthless. It's a "be weaker now to get more powerful later" thing, but when you reach lvl 20 or thereabouts you'll understand that the extra XP you'd gain via learning isn't really as useful as you could've thought.

I suggest just investing into useful skills and having more fun with the game earlier; you won't reach a point where you'll find that you really regret not having these couple extra levels. By the time when the XP difference would really kick in you'll probably be bit burned out on the game anyway and will either drop it or push forward to finish it asap.

EDIT: Actually, other people talked about learning more, i dipped the thread soon after making this post

http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/lords-of-xulima.80725/page-53#post-3749184

Take a look as learning was discussed at length there with yeas and nays flying.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
I found learning to be completely worthless, lost 30% of the fun I could have had off my playthrough to end the game 2 or 3 levels higher. Not at all a worthy tradeoff. If I was to replay, I would only give my thief one point in learning. The thief gets lots of skill points that others don't, from traps and such, and you will end up finding books that boost your learning, so I figure put one point on the thief, and let him use the books, that should be decent boost at very little tradeoff.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
Serus' post (just a little below Monocause's post) describes the Learning skill in LoX pretty much spot-on. It's not game-breaking, it's not mandatory, and it's not useless either. It's fairly balanced, if somewhat unimpressive in terms of overall impact.

Once again, I find LoX a very well balanced game. As long as you don't gimp yourself with crap choices, there are no ways to "break" anad abuse the game system, and all of the viable options are very similar in terms of overall strength, even though they may work in different ways.
 

ben_reck

Educated
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
84
I'm playing at the all-star level with the kids around 40. Not sure how much is left, but too much, for sure. 3 princes down, nine portals discovered.

Compulsion fuels this one mid-game and beyond, tho it remains at all times a decent rpg in a mediocre sense. It doesn't offer enough variety to justify its length. The phrase for it might be "too many clicks." But that's worlds better than DA which would be "unclickable."

So I find myself spending too much time killing demons with their absurd amounts of hp rather than exploring the reasonably entertaining dungeons (castles/towers/temples).

But I will finish it to see my score. It's a compulsion and there is pleasure in feeding one's compulsion.

It's a constrast with, say, Persona Q: Shadow of the Labyrinth, which I did not desperately want to finish until its last two clock tower levels.
 

Anthedon

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jan 1, 2015
Messages
4,498
Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
IIRC the devs themselves said that the game is too long and they should've focussed more on replayability etc. Hopefully they'll do that if they make a sequel.
 

ben_reck

Educated
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
84
IIRC the devs themselves said that the game is too long and they should've focussed more on replayability etc. Hopefully they'll do that if they make a sequel.
yeah, I read that, too. just confirming the structural problem. I do like replaying games for score. It's a pinball/arcade type of thing.
 

ben_reck

Educated
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
84
OK, I've killed the biggest cur, the wickedest witch, and the shiniest wyvern ... the angry potato can't be far off.
 

ben_reck

Educated
Joined
Nov 4, 2013
Messages
84
score_zpsildupzvl.png


I got a B.
 

Dyspaire

Cipher
Joined
Sep 26, 2008
Messages
280
Location
Relative
This game is great. If you were there in the 80s and early 90s, playing crpgs since there was such a thing,
this game scratches the itch better than anything I've played in quite a while.

The music is just lovely. The Cunavarn town theme is especially beautiful, ranking right up there
with the Kuldahar theme music, in my opinion.
Bold statement, I know.

Graphics are fantastic. Deceptively detailed. Sometimes it really did feel like walking around an updated Ultima environment.
Bold statement, I know.

It's one of the few isometrics where I really do wish there was some kind of zoom option. I would love a closer look at some of the art.

Lore is ok. More than serviceable. Most games don't try half as hard in this department. I have a feeling the lore is fantastic in Spanish.

They nailed lock-picking and traps; mini-games requiring just enough skill to be rewarding, yet over quick enough as to not be distracting.

Would love to see the whole party on the world-map, Infinity Engine-style, in Xulima2. (Sigh. Electric Boogaloo. Happy?)

The world could be a little bigger, although it's definitely more than big enough for a first game.
Would love to see them get ambitious and go for a BG1 to BG2 jump in size, finances allowing.

Mostly though, it's the detail and obvious love that went into the game. So many little things they got just right.

Back to playing. (approx. lvl30 across the board, atm.)
 

gunman

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,050
I'm playing on hardcore - ironman and my party level is around 52, killed 3 titans so it shouldn't be much more left, but it became so boring that I had to put it aside to finish some other time.

The fights with the high level undead in temples became unbearable, they cannot hurt me but I cannot kill them fast enough (royal mummies and the goddamn liches) and so a trivial fight takes 10-15 minutes, then an identical fight, then the next one and so on...
 

Cyberarmy

Love fool
Patron
Joined
Feb 7, 2013
Messages
8,451
Location
Smyrna - Scalanouva
Divinity: Original Sin 2
I'm playing on hardcore - ironman and my party level is around 52, killed 3 titans so it shouldn't be much more left, but it became so boring that I had to put it aside to finish some other time.

The fights with the high level undead in temples became unbearable, they cannot hurt me but I cannot kill them fast enough (royal mummies and the goddamn liches) and so a trivial fight takes 10-15 minutes, then an identical fight, then the next one and so on...

I skipped the most "ambushes" in last temples just because of that.
You have only 1 titan and 1 temple left ahead of you so I'll say just hang in there a bit more and finish the game.
 

gunman

Arcane
Developer
Joined
Jan 4, 2008
Messages
1,050
So I forced myself to finish it. I took your advice and run away from undead encounters in the last temple. I think I completed everything except a quest (finding the lost explorer in Vilak) and an offering (to Valvet i think). By the end, the game became very easy and boring (due to length and repetitiveness of battles). I don't see myself replaying this game. Anyway, here is my score:

P8vPhqg.jpg
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Does anyone know where to get or how to rip the game's soundtrack? Most of the best tracks such as Pernitia and Cunavarn seem to be missing from the official soundtrack.
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
So I am starting a new run through of this game! A few questions:

- What's the best way to build clerics and mages? Basically, I'm wondering if it is worth it to put points into the weapon skills. Both are staff users, and can help a lot with stunlocking opponents from the back line, to complement my frontline mace warrior. It might be a better idea to build skills in polearms rather than wasting points on spells that will probably be obsolete by the end game.

- This kind of links back to attributes. I can easily build their HP using all those pools and herbs. And of course one point always goes into speed. But I am wondering what is the best choice for the other point. I would much rather put the cleric's second point into energy, as although it gives less PP than constitution gives health, I can convert PP to health at a very good rate using spells like mass regeneration or greater healing. So, I'd rather invest in energy. But, if I am building weapon skills, then STR and AGI are pretty important... Hmmm....

- What are the best mage and cleric spells to build and develop? Preferrably ones with good end game utility value. I hated that most of my spells in the previous playthrough, with the cleric and bard, ended up being wastes of skillpoints as the game progressed.
 
Joined
Feb 28, 2011
Messages
4,099
Location
Chicago, IL, Kwa
It's worth investing in weapons skills for all characters, imo. Especially during the periodic difficulty spikes the occasional Hail-Mary stun can be a game-saver. It's been a while since my playthrough, but I remember finding that Speed>everything for pretty much everyone, and for casters Energy is a close-second. I didn't find STR or AGI all that important since, iirc the stun proc is independent of attributes; as long as they have a decent THC, there's no point in pumping the physical stats.
I can't remember any of the spell names, so I've got no advice there. I do remember that my Arcane Warrior (or whatever that class is called) was out-damaging all of my casters by endgame though, so I might not have picked the best spells.

Game is great though. Such an under-appreciated gem. I get that it's a bit of an acquired taste (bland-writing + high difficulty is a hard-sell for most Steamtards), but the stunning art design and hybrid of iso exploration and blobber combat (along with the difficulty) had me falling in love almost immediately. Hopefully it sold well enough for Numantian Games to stay in business and make a LoX2 or game in a similar style.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
So I am starting a new run through of this game! A few questions:

- What's the best way to build clerics and mages? Basically, I'm wondering if it is worth it to put points into the weapon skills. Both are staff users, and can help a lot with stunlocking opponents from the back line, to complement my frontline mace warrior. It might be a better idea to build skills in polearms rather than wasting points on spells that will probably be obsolete by the end game.

- This kind of links back to attributes. I can easily build their HP using all those pools and herbs. And of course one point always goes into speed. But I am wondering what is the best choice for the other point. I would much rather put the cleric's second point into energy, as although it gives less PP than constitution gives health, I can convert PP to health at a very good rate using spells like mass regeneration or greater healing. So, I'd rather invest in energy. But, if I am building weapon skills, then STR and AGI are pretty important... Hmmm....

- What are the best mage and cleric spells to build and develop? Preferrably ones with good end game utility value. I hated that most of my spells in the previous playthrough, with the cleric and bard, ended up being wastes of skillpoints as the game progressed.

Mages are strictly back row casters, NO combat skills (you shouldn't even have leftover skill-points for that, in fact). I found it best to give your casters a shield (get low-tier ones with low stat reqs but good stat boosts) and NO weapon.
Clerics can be built 2 ways: 1. Like mages - pure back row caster, full on spells; when not healing allies, cleric casts divine prayer or "assists". 2. Front row NON-attacking tank. Basically, same as #1, except you put him in front row and pump some armor + life skills, so he could take some beating. Still - NO attacks, pure damage sponge (because divine prayer is OP).

Staffs/pole weapons are utter crap, btw, don't bother with them.

Here's some fundamental best char-building principles:
1. Speed >>>>> any other stat. Always max speed on every level up, on every char. No exceptions! Make sure your casters wear items with extra Spd, you want them to act as early in combat as possible.
2. Endurance is important for everyone. You will regret your "I can easily build their HP using all those pools and herbs" though once you get to mid-game. Enemies will hurt a lot, and their attacks will be aoe, which means that they will hurt your back row as well. Ideally, that's the second stat you pump for your non-fighter classes at each level-up, but it's acceptable to alternate it with energy for casters on every other level-up. While endurance is important for front row fighters, they will generally be of classes with good base hp multiplier, so they will have decent hp as they level. And they have access to the bodybuilding skill on the cheap, while casters don't.
3. Strength is the most important attribute for fighters (after speed!). It directly boosts weapons' damage (even ranged weapons). You want to pump Str at least once every two level ups at first, and on every level up closer to endgame.
4. Agility is nice, but it's mostly a secondary stat. It affects your fighters' chance to evade (IIRC) and chance to hit, as well as being required for some weapons to be used. For fighters, pump it from time to time (alternating with Str in the beginning of the game) to meet weapon stat requirements. Then you can either pump it occasionally, or leave it, and forcus on Str+End. It's totally useless for casters, don't pump it.
5. Energy is kinda like agility - nice to have for casters, but can be skipped, and totally useless for fighters. For casters, can alternate it on every other level up with endurance, if you wish so. Can help at the beginning of the game, but pretty pointless later on, because high-lvl spells cost so much energy that extra, say, 100 energy from putting 50 energy points (not a small amount) is actually not going to make much of a difference. If you want more energy on your casters - pump meditation(?) skill instead.

For best caster spells, please consult the game guide that comes with the game. It's there for a reason. The game devs explicitly state ingame that if you want to get good results in LoX, you're expected to study manual.
Here's some good mage spells: sparks (or stone arrow), flames, blizzard(!), lightning (or meteor), fireball(!), energy aborption(!), inferno(!), lords of the thunder + incinerate air/end of flames for utility purposes (lvl1 only). Hammer of the destroyer, thunder storm and frostball are decent as well, but generally worse than other spells I listed here.
Good cleric spells: light heal (3 max), mend bleeding, cure wounds, mass organic protection, mass magical protection, mass elemental protection, mass divine armor(!), divine prayer(!), mass heal(!), mass regeneration(!), light ray, divine ray(!), ray of the gods, remove poison, cleanse disease, purify curse.
 

Bio Force Ape

Arcane
Joined
Feb 24, 2014
Messages
3,427
Is there a cap for skills? I've seen people recommend putting only a few points into some (most?) skills, as the rest can come from skill books. For spells like "mend bleeding," is it necessary to put more than 1 point in?
 

roshan

Arcane
Joined
Apr 7, 2004
Messages
2,426
Is there a cap for skills? I've seen people recommend putting only a few points into some (most?) skills, as the rest can come from skill books. For spells like "mend bleeding," is it necessary to put more than 1 point in?

Each skill has it's own cap, some could be capped at 2, 3 or 5, others might go up to 30 or so. The game is pretty transparent about this. I'd suggest in general not maxing out any skills, leave a few points empty just in case you find skillbooks. Also, some skills require lots of points to level, 3 or 4, and have very low caps. For these skills, I'd suggest just putting one point in, and hope to find the relevant skillbooks later on.
 

T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
Most spell skills are capped at 5, a few are capped at less (1/2/3).
Base utility and weapon skills are mostly capped at 30, some at less.
It's all in the manual anyway, I strongly recommend reading it.

There are skill-books in the game that grant +1 to a skill when consumed, but they are really rare, and are randomised.

General min-maxing strategy I've read about and support myself is to only raise spell skills' levels if you see the need for extra effect they provide and also can support that increased energy cost that comes with it.
Most mundane cleric's spells are best kept at 1-2 and then later raised to 3-4 depending on your needs. Most of the mage's best late game spells (see my last post in the thread) are best acquired and raised to 5 ASAP, but you can raise the early game spells to 3-4 max and keep them at this level, unless you really feel the lack of damage.

Anyway, the mages rock early on and in the late game when they do big aoe dps and can syphon energy from enemies. In the mid-game they will have to become potion junkies if you want them to be useful.
And also remember that you don't have to put skill points anywhere if you don't need them. Keep them for later levels. It's especially true for casters and barbarian/soldier classes. Other fighter and utility type chars generally have a notable lack of skill points, so you actually have to ration them.
Try to buy 2 skill points from trainer at each level up if you can afford it. Always buy at least 1 SP from them, it's worth it.
 

Kaivokz

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2015
Messages
1,499
It's all in the manual anyway, I strongly recommend reading it.
Is this information only in the deluxe edition "guide book" or in the manual? The "manual" I have is 15 pages long and mentions nothing about skills, spells, and so on.
 

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