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Main News about StarLife

Bluebottle

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,182
Dead State Wasteland 2
Holy shit. Last time I checked in here this was just some concept work on combat renders. Looking really fantastic now.

three exterior missions: theft (acquiring designs), infiltration (learning another empire’s intentions) and intel (keeping track of enemy fleets and colonies)

One aspect of espionage that I really liked in Birth of the Federation was the option to implicate other races in espionage if you put enough resources into it. Sabotaging diplomatic relations between two allied enemy races was sometimes more of a reason to be conducting espionage late game than the material benefits. It also had the effect of making you feel like a total soviet bad-ass.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
Thanks!

We talked about espionage that would disrupt other races relations but in the end I want to avoid it because it's uncertain if you are going to be successful, you have to spend a lot of time and resources and in the end it relies too much in how will the AI handle relations after it has been disrupted.
We will try to put it back later when the system is more mature and so we can check it working with the AI.
 

Bluebottle

Erudite
Patron
Joined
Oct 17, 2005
Messages
1,182
Dead State Wasteland 2
Fair enough. It's nice to have, but it's just one of those flavour things.Your espionage system sounds fairly fundamentally different, anyway.

Also, must say your GUI design is fucking beautiful. Really brilliant mix of pixel art and clean lines. Reminiscent of FTL, which also had a fantastic GUI.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
Thanks! I have been rushing the UI, I can't wait to go back to it later to give it some more work.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
Found this cool site where you can ask a question and then you put arguments on one side or the other.
The question must be two sided like an yes or no question.

For testing purposes I made this question: Which is better, MoO or MoO2 planet management?
You can check the site here: http://www.stance.io/d/5eh

WhichIsBetterMoOMoO2PlanetManagement.png
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I never played MoO1, but I really like Civ/MoO2 style of city/planet management.

However, one thing I'd like to see is some C&C in city management. Maybe mutually exclusive buildings or buildings that have a detrimental effect on each other. Like you can build a factory and a university right next to each other if you want, but the scientist don't like the pollution. Then you can build a pollution processor, but that costs money to run.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
I have been thinking about it a lot these days, I still don't know if I want a MoO2 style of planet management.
It looks cool at first but (like in civ) your cities will end up all looking the same in the end, your suggestion would improve this point.

Something that is definetely in is that colonies will be divided into types, so you can have a mining colony, a research colony or a military colony and maybe some other types as well. Changing from one to another should be slow and probably painful.
Building then could be specific to the type of colony.

Another way would be to use not use buildings at all, I have been elaborating a system inspired by the MadTV game, in that game you run a TV company and you must buy movies/series and then you have to pick commercials and match them given the number of people watching. A commercial could require 2 million viewers and only with action movies and would pay you 200k.
It's interesting because it's very simple yet you keep doing the same thing the entire game without you getting tired of it, you then buy more station towers or satellites, better movies to be able to reach more viewers and because of that you are able to get better commercials which pay more. Each day in the game you have to pick new commercials and arrange them properly.

I was thinking then of having civilian companies/factions/own gov/alien govs that would set 'commercials' for you, I would call them requests. Requests could then require production points, research points, food or a combination of these and would pay you in money or bonuses. The payment could be done as you complete or at the end of the request.
One key factor of these requests could be to keep your population happy, civilian companies would be the best for happiness.
Accepting requests from your factions would increase their strength and their influence is yet to be determined.
Accepting requests from your own gov would give the best bonuses.
Accepting requests from alien govs would help them to like you more.

You would place those requests in systems, so having three colonies on one system would make them work together on the same request. Bonuses would be system wide. And they would probably have a timer, a number of turns to be completed and a penalty in case you fail. Systems would have slots, so at first you may accept one request per system and then with technology or race traits you could have more.

I could then separate the requests into temporary slots and permanents slots.
A temporary slot is a quest that is completed and discarded, a permanent slots would accept a different kind of quest in which doesnt finish and you can keep it there as long as you want.

For example a temporary request could be: an alien gov could request help to build a military spaceship, you would then have to give them 500 production points in 10 or less turns. They would pay you 1000 credits. This project helps employment and make supporters of this alien race happy so you get a +1 happiness on the system while it's active.

A permanent request could be: Faction A wants to improve your universities promoving programs which help you select young and intelligent 'insert race here' to find jobs at laboratories and research centers. Gives you a +3 research point while active. EDIT: This request could cost you money. ENDOFEDIT

I could then mix this system with a building system, but now the building system can be made simple to help the request system instead of being complex and the only system of the game.
We could have buildings that are prerequisite of some requests or buildings that amplify bonuses.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
I can't say that I'm in love with "colony types". I would prefer the type comes naturally what has been built and what natural resources the colony has.

Also, I thought of an existing example of making c&c when building cities. In Total War Shogun 2, you have limited space for buildings. I haven't played in a while, but I think it starts at 3, and each time you upgrade the administration building, it adds another slot for a building. This is probably as simplistic as it gets, but early in the game you do have to make hard choices about building money making building or building a unit building to get access to higher tier units.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
The problem with colonies not having a type is that in the end they can/will always end up looking like the same colony.

Opening up slots is planned, racial traits can also have bonus slots.

EDIT: For example, some colonies just weren't planned to grow or to have any other function other than mining or research. If types doesn't exist then all colonies have the same needs, grow the same way and provide the same output.
 

tuluse

Arcane
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
11,400
Serpent in the Staglands Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Shadorwun: Hong Kong
MoO didn't have any restrictions and I still had different colony types (admittedly just Industrial and Agricultural, but still). I would prefer a system like this:

To get the most efficient research, you have to have lots of scientists and make them happy. Scientists don't like pollution, so heavy industry would decrease their happiness. They also don't like living in over-populated cities, so if you increase population too much, their happiness decreases. On the other hand they need light industry to prototype their ideas, so you have to make sure to supply that. The player would be free to build research buildings and push his population into scientists on a heavily populated heavy industry colony, but it be less efficient.

For agriculture, you would need a lot of open space, and also need to keep pollution below a certain level to get good yields.

For heavy industry, you would want to just have as many people working as possible.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
It makes sense, it's a great system.
But for example if you want to go from research to industrial or agricultural you just change the population and start to regulate the industry/population. So it's all manual. Also you would have all kinds of 'buildings' for all planets all the time.

If you have a planet type the change is made with an event, changing research planet to industrial planet, so the game will regulate this for you (example changing from industrial to research would put the planet into a refit mode which reduces industries, cleans pollution and allocates excess population to other planets), and now you can only build what is relevant to your type of planet, instead of having the option to build what is not necessary and what won't have any effect on your colony.

The number of turns to refit a planet depends on how much work there is to be done.
It's like in an rpg, if there is no class (skyrim) then a planet can be a jack of all trades (in the end).
But a system like in D&D is most preferable because it gives flavour to the character and the game itself knows what kind of character you have and can act accordingly. Like having conversations (events) based on characters (colonies) or skills (buildings) that matter on for that class (type of planet).

In a rpg like skyrim everything is/must be generic.
That is what I think anyway.

EDIT: It also looks more organized, I can sort colonies by their type and issue plans based on their types.
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
So what's going on lately? Most links to your pics are broken. I was curious about your starmap and if you got a Vonoloi system working.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
Oh yeah, sorry about that.
I'm working on the video for kickstarter and things got pretty slow right now.
I'm also redoing the site so that's why most links are broken.

The system works, but for now it's a simple visual effect, I'm not actually using it's area on any calculations since it's in space. Distance is being calculated directly from one star to another.
What I did was to lay out the stars, calculate the distances between them, store in a table within the star so it knows the distance to every other star and then lay out the voronoi diagram in the end based on the stars.

EDIT: Let me know if you want the source code for C++/Qt.
 

Norfleet

Moderator
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
12,250
The problem with colonies not having a type is that in the end they can/will always end up looking like the same colony.
Is that necessarily bad, though? It WOULD seem like a colony would ultimately evolve towards some final pattern: You start a colony to harvest the resources of that planet. When those resources are depleted, you either end up with another urban center that now must import the raw materials of even newer colonies, or an abandoned planet.

EDIT: For example, some colonies just weren't planned to grow or to have any other function other than mining or research. If types doesn't exist then all colonies have the same needs, grow the same way and provide the same output.
Maybe, maybe not. People do all ultimately need and want similar things, so all colonies would have the same needs. How effectively they meet their needs, or the needs of other colonies, depends on the local resources. Presumably, there's a finite amount of resources that could be mined from the planet, after which the planet has to grow beyond resource extraction to become some manner of urban center, or be abandoned. This is what happens with cities in real life, too: A town is established around some kind of mining operation, eventually the place is mined out, and either the town evolves beyond the original settlers' intent, or it dies as everyone buggers off for greener pastures. If it doesn't die, the resulting city ultimately ends up fairly similar to every other city.
 

tiagocc0

Arcane
Joined
Jun 29, 2007
Messages
2,056
Location
Brazil
Is that necessarily bad, though? It WOULD seem like a colony would ultimately evolve towards some final pattern: You start a colony to harvest the resources of that planet. When those resources are depleted, you either end up with another urban center that now must import the raw materials of even newer colonies, or an abandoned planet.
It's like a city on it's ultimate sstate requires lots of resources, requires lots of attention and also care.
While you may end up with one or two cities like that, it's not reasonable to have all cities end up like that. Like you said cities need resources, they explore what they have and then start using the resources of newer cities.
If all we have is great colonies full of people requiring resources like mad then your empire would fall or would have to spend all your money trading in those resources.
In the end some cities have to be different, otherwise you won't be able to stabilize your empire.

On Master of Orion 2 for example you have colonies full of scientists, others full of farmers and others full of workers.
The difference is that there you can change the colony type from a research colony to a production colony in one turn and without consequences.
There the same population that can produce food can also research.
Here research colonies won't need billions of scientists, it requires less population but more infrastructure to reach the same level of efficiency than a farm colony, for example.
In the end we want the transition to be part of the game experience instead of a quick decision of ether I want more food or research that turn.


Maybe, maybe not. People do all ultimately need and want similar things, so all colonies would have the same needs. How effectively they meet their needs, or the needs of other colonies, depends on the local resources. Presumably, there's a finite amount of resources that could be mined from the planet, after which the planet has to grow beyond resource extraction to become some manner of urban center, or be abandoned. This is what happens with cities in real life, too: A town is established around some kind of mining operation, eventually the place is mined out, and either the town evolves beyond the original settlers' intent, or it dies as everyone buggers off for greener pastures. If it doesn't die, the resulting city ultimately ends up fairly similar to every other city.
People have similar basic needs, a colony dedicated to research will have very different needs than a colony dedicated to farming.
One you can have small biomes scattered across the world filled with high tech machinery and equipment, while the other you have to terraform as much as possible the surface and you will end up full of villages and cities that will grow more and more with time.
 

CreamyBlood

Arcane
Joined
Feb 10, 2005
Messages
1,392
The system works, but for now it's a simple visual effect, I'm not actually using it's area on any calculations since it's in space. Distance is being calculated directly from one star to another.
What I did was to lay out the stars, calculate the distances between them, store in a table within the star so it knows the distance to every other star and then lay out the voronoi diagram in the end based on the stars.

EDIT: Let me know if you want the source code for C++/Qt.

Thanks for the offer but I was thinking of something similar for what I'm doing, using a table for the nearest stars. I'm suspecting that I don't really need Delaunay or Volonoi. Sometimes overthinking makes life harder. I'll hit you up for the code though if I get really stumped.
 

Indranys

Savant
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
486
Location
Illepsum
Damn bro.
Looks pretty cool man, and I didn't know this game until now. :oops:
Any release date yet?
Looks like I need to re-play Distant Worlds, MoO, and Emperor of The Fading Suns again for the time being.

And wow does bunda really mean ass in portuguese??
That's pretty amusing, for it means mother in my national language. :lol:
And it's the most polite word among its synonyms too.
Must be another God's cruel joke it seems.
Man I should stop calling my mother bunda from now on, the shit will never be the same again for me... :cry:

Damn you codex, damn you!

:rpgcodex:
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:negative:
 

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