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Mordheim - turn-based tactics in the Warhammer universe

vonAchdorf

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Sep 20, 2014
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13,465
Nice write-up. I agree with many points. Regarding the graphics, especially this:

The graphics are what one should expect from a game with a limited budget. The texture quality could and should be higher than this, but the artistic direction is spot on recreating the architectural grandeur of a city from the Warhammer universe even if it is in ruins. The green grayish pallet with a little brown here and there might be upsetting for some, but this is how many envision this bleak universe and I found it in ton with the lore and extremely atmospheric.

and this:

Every type of unit looks the same as every type of armor and weapon looks the same and while looting something new and powerful could be exciting, part of that excitement dies when the new hammer looks like the older hammer.

When I got my first purple shield of awesome, and it looked exactly the same like the white default shield, I was a bit disappointed.

They added lots of new combat animations in the last patch, though I can't say, that I noticed them yet.
 
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Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I disagree with the graphics part completely to be honest. For a turn-based strategy game the graphics are the best that ever existed, only compared to nuXCOM. I don't get how such a game with proceduraly generated maps etc could have even better textures than these.
It's not a spectacle shooter.
If there is some tb-strategy with better graphics out there, feel free to point it out, I'd love to try it out
 

Saark

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A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Agreed. Not to mention that the loading times are horrendous as is, higher res textures would just make things worse since the entire map seems to be preloaded. :/ I did miss higher quality weapons looking differently though, made me a little sad.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Sure I'd go with that. Generally different models for higher level weapons, or some effects that go with the enchantments etc would be cool indeed
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
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Sep 20, 2014
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Regarding the graphics part, I think the artistic direction is really good and the color palette grows on you. But the lacking number of available heads does limit the individualization options.

Regarding the loading times, the developers said that it's because of engine limitations, but they expect an update to Unity in / before spring, which would allow them to reduce them.
 

Wolfe

Arbiter
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Messages
432
I disagree with the graphics part completely to be honest. For a turn-based strategy game the graphics are the best that ever existed, only compared to nuXCOM. I don't get how such a game with proceduraly generated maps etc could have even better textures than these.
It's not a spectacle shooter.
If there is some tb-strategy with better graphics out there, feel free to point it out, I'd love to try it out

It's the camera that dictates better graphics, not the genre itself. In this case, Mordheim has a 3rd person camera which makes it a lot easier to spot the average graphical fidelity than the top down/isometric cameras.

I'm liking the graphics because of their artistic style, despite the fact that they are clearly not the priority in this game. Even so, we're almost in 2016 and more could have been achieved..
 
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ST'Ranger

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
306
Just picked this up recently. The interface is dreadful at times, but otherwise the game is great. The long load times seem to be due to level generation rather than actual asset loading so I'm not sure how much room for optimization there is in the future. But on the bright side, the level generation they're using gives quite good results.

I see from a quick look around that Mordheim's been just about universally panned. A lot of the complaints are people essentially raging over not understanding the game mechanics, which are actually quite thoroughly explained in the tutorials, and getting punished by RNG for taking huge risks. Anyone that's played Blood Bowl will probably be totally immune to the RNG fuckery because these two games are close brethren in that regard. There are some legitimate complaints regarding the interface, but most of these annoyances can be overcome with player familiarity and thus don't represent a persistent nag. One thing that stands out to me is the lack of clarity on the overlay map - it's hard to tell if there is a path in some places without actually inspecting it close-up. In a game that's heavily focused on planning, this is a persistently annoying flaw.

I've never played tabletop Mordheim or Necromunda so I can't comment on whether it's a faithful recreation, but I really do like the combat system with the zones of control, ambushing, dodge/parry, and all the interesting special abilities that can be earned to build a custom warband. The game is not only full of stats, but one can take characters in wildly different directions by directing those stats; and this in addition to the skill system gives huge flexibility to the player to exploit the combat mechanics in just the way they desire. Add in interesting tactical options with the map generation (natural chokepoints, ledges/high ground, cramped hallways etc.) to provide a very meaty and full sense of strategic satisfaction. I'd recommend this game to anyone that can appreciate a complex combat system.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
It has one (big-ish) flaw imo and that is the sub-par single player experience. The campaigns are "meh" and the AI kinda dumb (as usual). Otherwise I completely agree
 

Roqua

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Just picked this up recently. The interface is dreadful at times, but otherwise the game is great. The long load times seem to be due to level generation rather than actual asset loading so I'm not sure how much room for optimization there is in the future. But on the bright side, the level generation they're using gives quite good results.

I see from a quick look around that Mordheim's been just about universally panned. A lot of the complaints are people essentially raging over not understanding the game mechanics, which are actually quite thoroughly explained in the tutorials, and getting punished by RNG for taking huge risks. Anyone that's played Blood Bowl will probably be totally immune to the RNG fuckery because these two games are close brethren in that regard. There are some legitimate complaints regarding the interface, but most of these annoyances can be overcome with player familiarity and thus don't represent a persistent nag. One thing that stands out to me is the lack of clarity on the overlay map - it's hard to tell if there is a path in some places without actually inspecting it close-up. In a game that's heavily focused on planning, this is a persistently annoying flaw.

I've never played tabletop Mordheim or Necromunda so I can't comment on whether it's a faithful recreation, but I really do like the combat system with the zones of control, ambushing, dodge/parry, and all the interesting special abilities that can be earned to build a custom warband. The game is not only full of stats, but one can take characters in wildly different directions by directing those stats; and this in addition to the skill system gives huge flexibility to the player to exploit the combat mechanics in just the way they desire. Add in interesting tactical options with the map generation (natural chokepoints, ledges/high ground, cramped hallways etc.) to provide a very meaty and full sense of strategic satisfaction. I'd recommend this game to anyone that can appreciate a complex combat system.

I have a hard time playing games that don't have much other than combat (but I love good combat). Is there anything outside of combat or is this game pure combat? As examples I love Blackguards 1, I prefer Hammer & Sickle over Silent Storm, I love X-Com and JA 2, I did not like Space Hulk, I did not like Warhammer Quest.
 

ST'Ranger

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
306
The game consists entirely of two things - pre-combat planning and combat missions.

Pre-combat planning is basically managing your warband - assigning statpoints to your individual soldiers to move them in the direction you want, giving them passive and/or active skills to allow for new abilities and more specialization, and determining the composition as a whole of your warband (it grows in size and there are more options for troop types when the warband levels). There is also a shop - a very important part of the game where you can buy items to kit out your soldiers (or you can loot items you want to use off enemy corpses). In addition, there is a meta-level system called the Veteran system where you are essentially allocating passive bonuses to your warband as a whole (though most of these bonuses deal with management/funds etc.). Lastly, there is the wyrdstone market, which is the mechanism through which you gain funds but also serves as a way to unlock management-style bonuses.

This warband management feels somewhat like the base management that is available in X-COM, though they're quite different. Everything else is selecting missions on the map and playing through those missions on a tactical scale. There is no real endgame or goal or story, you just keep leveling your soldiers, leveling your warband, and doing more and more missions. The missions are a bit like scenarios. The objective is always to rout the enemy, but the scenario offers a secondary objective (which will result in more XP gained and more loot).

I'm not sure if the warband system is enough to count as "other than combat" since we seem to have different ideas about what that entails. I would consider X-COM, for example, to be game that doesn't "have much other than combat." I unfortunately have not played Space Hulk or Warhammer Quest and so cannot weigh in from that perspective. You can easily find youtube vidoes of Mordheim campaigns, I suggest you watch what people do between missions and see if that satisfies your concerns.
 

BlackAdderBG

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You sure there is only "kill all enemies" missions? I remember some story missions had different objectives ,like cleanse some statues with special heroes on your side and such.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
You sure there is only "kill all enemies" missions? I remember some story missions had different objectives ,like cleanse some statues with special heroes on your side and such.
It has like 12 "campaign" missions per faction that indeed have different goals. They are also generally pretty hard too, but also give nice rewards.
 

Roqua

Prospernaut
Dumbfuck Repressed Homosexual In My Safe Space
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The game consists entirely of two things - pre-combat planning and combat missions.

Pre-combat planning is basically managing your warband - assigning statpoints to your individual soldiers to move them in the direction you want, giving them passive and/or active skills to allow for new abilities and more specialization, and determining the composition as a whole of your warband (it grows in size and there are more options for troop types when the warband levels). There is also a shop - a very important part of the game where you can buy items to kit out your soldiers (or you can loot items you want to use off enemy corpses). In addition, there is a meta-level system called the Veteran system where you are essentially allocating passive bonuses to your warband as a whole (though most of these bonuses deal with management/funds etc.). Lastly, there is the wyrdstone market, which is the mechanism through which you gain funds but also serves as a way to unlock management-style bonuses.

This warband management feels somewhat like the base management that is available in X-COM, though they're quite different. Everything else is selecting missions on the map and playing through those missions on a tactical scale. There is no real endgame or goal or story, you just keep leveling your soldiers, leveling your warband, and doing more and more missions. The missions are a bit like scenarios. The objective is always to rout the enemy, but the scenario offers a secondary objective (which will result in more XP gained and more loot).

I'm not sure if the warband system is enough to count as "other than combat" since we seem to have different ideas about what that entails. I would consider X-COM, for example, to be game that doesn't "have much other than combat." I unfortunately have not played Space Hulk or Warhammer Quest and so cannot weigh in from that perspective. You can easily find youtube vidoes of Mordheim campaigns, I suggest you watch what people do between missions and see if that satisfies your concerns.

Thank you for the explanation. It sounds like breach & clear, which (besides the combat which I didn't care for) sounds like it had a similar upgrade system between battles. I need more carrots on a stick than that. Xcom has base building, researching, production, etc. It has a significant amount of content to engage in between battles.
 

k0syak

Cipher
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
408
Thank you for the explanation. It sounds like breach & clear, which (besides the combat which I didn't care for) sounds like it had a similar upgrade system between battles. I need more carrots on a stick than that. Xcom has base building, researching, production, etc. It has a significant amount of content to engage in between battles.

The battles in Mordheim are WAY better though :)
 
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Jul 8, 2006
Messages
2,930
fuck this games interface is the worst shit I have ever used. You cant select anything, why the hell would anybody think this is a intuitive way to design a game interface? The game is full of information and stats most of which is hidden or very hard to bring up. For instance I know one of my skaven I bought some pistols for but once in the combat interface is there any fucking way to check the alternate weapons or Armour your guys are wearing? the alt key cycles through all sorts of shit but I can't figure out how to find out how each character is equipped. The official wiki says 'warrior info' can be looked at by using the left CTRL key but nothing at all happens when I use that key. I even changed the key map to another key in case my CTRL button was not working and still nothing happens.

This game is very cool, but I feel like I am fighting with the interface and camera 90% of the time. I just can't imagine why they would design the camera and interface in this fashion for a tactical board game simulation, its like they tried to come up with the most frustrating and annoying way to control the game possible. Why make it like a 3d shooter when the game is about positioning and tactics? And then why make so many stats and then make them impossible to select or view? Its UFB. I want to punch the designers in the face. They make a great tactical turn based game and then fuck it all up by trying to make it look like a dude bro 3d shooter for some reason. fucking dick heads.
 

vonAchdorf

Arcane
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
13,465
Try the space bar, though I'm not sure if it displays the alternate equipment.
 

k0syak

Cipher
Joined
Sep 24, 2013
Messages
408
fuck this games interface is the worst shit I have ever used. You cant select anything, why the hell would anybody think this is a intuitive way to design a game interface? The game is full of information and stats most of which is hidden or very hard to bring up. For instance I know one of my skaven I bought some pistols for but once in the combat interface is there any fucking way to check the alternate weapons or Armour your guys are wearing? the alt key cycles through all sorts of shit but I can't figure out how to find out how each character is equipped. The official wiki says 'warrior info' can be looked at by using the left CTRL key but nothing at all happens when I use that key. I even changed the key map to another key in case my CTRL button was not working and still nothing happens.
CTRL turns detailed percentage breakdown on/off
ALT cycles through buffs/debuffs, stats (that's where the 2nd weapon set is) and resistances.
 

PhantasmaNL

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Nov 20, 2012
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PC RPG Website of the Year, 2015 Grab the Codex by the pussy Codex USB, 2014 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 BattleTech Bubbles In Memoria
3Gb Steam patch

Today we are proud to release the 3rd patch (v1.1.4.8) for Mordheim: City of the Damned. We are also releasing 2 new exclusive Hired Swords: the Smuggler and the Globadier, available as DLC in the Steam Store!

Our version of the Unity Engine has also been updated to its newest version (5.3.2) in order to improve the loading times, and fix several bugs.

We hope you will enjoy these improvements, and look forward to seeing you fight in the dark streets of Mordheim: City of the Damned.

New Content
  • New Hired Sword Warriors available upon purchase as DLCs on Steam!

General Changes
  • Loading times have been reduced by 40-50%!
  • The duration of Wyrdstone effects have been increased to 2 turns
  • Everyone now has a “Throw” animation for thrown consumables

Navigation Fixes
  • It is no longer possible to charge Warriors that are on different heights in the Quayside & Midbridge Maps.
  • Extra chests should no longer block Warriors inside a building in Quayside while playing with extra objectives.
  • Fixed collision issues with Noble's Quarters unique Mansion buildings.

Bug Fixes
  • Various localization and grammar fixes
  • The debuff window is now hidden during other player's turn
  • Improved AI warrior's movement near corners
  • Plaguebearers are now immune to Stench of Nurgle
  • Fixed application of poison on charge attacks
  • Fixed Manticore acid spit auto success
  • Fixed double loot bag spawn when killing a warrior using an offensive spell

Special Note
Due to the changes made to speed up the loading times, if you load a combat save from before the update, you will be returned to the hideout before the mission, with no consequences. We apologize for this inconvenience!

How to help us
If you find any bugs or need some technical help, please refer to the thread "Issues launching or loading the game. Read this first!", and the appropriate forum for bugs reporting and technical issues, and do no post in general discussions. The general discussion forum is very hard for us to navigate as there is a lot of movement, so we only look at it briefly.

If you experience a game breaking bug, such as a crash to desktop, please make a post in the Bug report section, and also send your output log and a copy of your combat log, found in your Steam install directory:
- Steam\SteamApps\common\mordheim\mordheim_Data\output_log.txt
- Steam\SteamApps\common\mordheim\combat.log

Email these logs to logs at rogue-factor.com and we'll take a look at it. Please link your post/thread in your email so we can return to it. A DxDiag can also be helpful, and if you managed to take a screenshot that will also help quite a bit.

We hope you enjoy this patch. Feel free to check the forums regularly to get information on what's coming next to Mordheim: City of the Damned
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
2 Hired Swords as DLCs? Wtf, if they put new clans in , what will they be? 30 euro expansions each? :/

*Nice that they reduce the loading times, they were way too much
**XCOM 2 is coming, I will check this again in a month :P
 

vonAchdorf

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Sep 20, 2014
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I hope these two DLC heroes are just a quick money grab way to thank the devs, because a new warband would be nice.
 

Xathrodox86

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I hope these two DLC heroes are just a quick money grab way to thank the devs, because a new warband would be nice.

Vampire Counts when? Also Carnival of Disease would be sweet, as well as some more stuff for the humans and signature guys, like Aenur and Johann The Knife.
 

ST'Ranger

Augur
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
306
Have only done a few missions since the patch. My loading times used to be between 2.5 and 4 minutes. New loading time is 30-40s, though I haven't seen one of the extra-giant maps yet. This is a game-changer for me because I can't even get a glass of water while loading :decline: ( :incline: ).

Wyrdstone effects lasting longer is actually a very significant change that could combo with certain units; I am intrigued. Despite them saying they fixed AI behavior around corners, AI impressives are still completely broken in this respect - and this is currently the biggest flaw with the game as far as AI goes. The second biggest flaw is the general AI behavior, and I'm hoping they'll improve upon it in the future. I have actually noticed that the Skaven AI seems to be significantly different from the other warbands (nothing to do with this patch, I mean in general) in providing more of a challenge.

This micro-DLC nonsense is pathetic, and I won't be participating. I'll wait until they release something of note which actually significantly enhances the game.
 

oscar

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Aug 30, 2008
Messages
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NZ
Played two missions, one with the lesbians (got my ass kicked by human mercenaries, with leader losing a leg and someone else an arm) then did better as mercs against another merc band only taking a single knock out that thankfully healed fine and generally getting some very lucky roles.

The graphics are solid and the art direction excellent though the limited heads is rather disappointing for a game like this where you get attatched to your band of soldiers. Would some random haircuts, colours and facial hair have been so difficult to slap on?

The UI is unusual but the tutorials do a good job of explaining it and don't take too long for a game of this complexity (no 'here's how to move your cursor' time wasting thankfully) and I got the swing of it in no time.

Seems like there's a lot of room for cunning terrain manipulation what's nice. Forgetting zone of control I realised to my horror I had just doomed my Young Blood when the tight corridor my foe retreated to meant I couldn't move my captain in to assist him (he was saved by some incredibly lucky rolls however).

Overall I'm impressed and keen to play more. Any advice on weapon/armour/class balance?
 

Jimmious

Arcane
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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
Highly depends on the Warband you play! For example with Skaven you go full dodge and poisons, with Chaos you aim for damage and...scaring the shit out of others etc

Game is gut but needs "something" to be great. I think that something is probably a bit more flavor in SP
 

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