MY IMPRESSIONS OF GENEFORGE SERIES

[Agesilaus]

See what I'm talking about? "mustachio twirling villians"? For Pete's sake; present the slightest bit of maturity, order, and discipline in a faction, and suddenly they're considered evil.

Their evilness has nothing to do with "maturity," "order," or "discipline." It's more about how they torture and enslave sentient beings.

As a gentlemanly class, their maturity, order, and discipline is an important part of what makes them good. I don't recall torture being a goal of the Shapers, and rather than enslave sentient beings, they created a slavish species to serve them; much different.

We obviously disagree, but whatever. Calling them mustachio twirling villains is simply wrong, and I highlighted your post because it is an example of that sort of knee-jerk Americanism that unfortunately seems to take over video games, movies, and other stories.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO AND YOU ARE KNEE JERKING THE OPPOSITE DIRECTION

I THINK YOU ARE READING YOUR PERSONAL BIAS INTO THE GAME A LITTLE MUICH

AND I THINK YOU ARE BOTH WRONG THEIR IS INTENTIONAL CONFLICT BETWEEN BROS WHO JUST WANNA BE FREE BUT ARE JUST FUCKUPS VERSUS BROS WHO GOT THERE SHIT IN ORDER BUT FUCK UP A FEW TRUE BROS IN THE PRIOVECESS

BRO LOLLOLLOL YOUR COLLECTIVIST BIAS AND ANTUIAMERICAN SENTIMENT KEEPS YOU FROM SEEING THE OPPOSITE POINT OF VIEW MAYBE!!!!

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO BUT I AGREE THE SHAPERS ARE NOT OBVIOUS VILLIANS

I THOUGHT VOGEL DID A GOOD JOB MAKING THE SHAPER POINT OF VIEW SEEM BAD AT FIRST BUT SHOW THE REASONING FOR THERE RULES AS THE SERIES WENT ON IT WAS SORT OF THE OVERARCHING THEME UNLESS I AM JUST DRUNK AGAIN

 

[Correct_Carlo]

As a gentlemanly class, their maturity, order, and discipline is an important part of what makes them good. I don't recall torture being a goal of the Shapers, and rather than enslave sentient beings, they created a slavish species to serve them; much different.

We obviously disagree, but whatever. Calling them mustachio twirling villains is simply wrong, and I highlighted your post because it is an example of that sort of knee-jerk Americanism that unfortunately seems to take over video games, movies, and other stories.

Nah, because the first and second games go to great pains to illustrate that serviles are functionally human in every way. They can even shape. The servile's "servile" nature isn't something that's inbred or a result of their inherent biological limitations, but rather is just a result of their lack of education and a general slavery mindset (notice, for example, how serviles raised in captivity have unique speech patterns compared to ones raised in freedom who talk and think normally). And the shaper's treat them almost exactly the way that slaves were treated in the American South (i.e. they force them to do manual labor, allow them little if any rights, disallow most from reading or education, torture and punish them with beatings or death if they try to escape, etc, etc). So I'm not sure how you could call what the Shapers are doing in those games anything other than slavery, regardless of if they created them or not. And if being anti-slavery makes me a knee-jerk American, then:

:patriot:

BRO BUT I AGREE THE SHAPERS ARE NOT OBVIOUS VILLIANS

I THOUGHT VOGEL DID A GOOD JOB MAKING THE SHAPER POINT OF VIEW SEEM BAD AT FIRST BUT SHOW THE REASONING FOR THERE RULES AS THE SERIES WENT ON IT WAS SORT OF THE OVERARCHING THEME UNLESS I AM JUST DRUNK AGAIN

I agree with this, but I don't think this becomes apparent until the 3rd game when he deliberately starts writing them with more shades of grey. I think it's much easier to side with the shapers in the later games as there it becomes clear that their philosophy is less about slavery than trying to contain a pandora's box that they themselves opened when they first decided to play God.

But still, I question how responsible or mature the shapers were to begin with. They should have realized that creating a sentient species as their own personal slaves would inevitably lead to rebellion. They talk a big talk about using shaping responsibly but they rarely practice what they preach.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO IF YOU CHECKED SOME OF THE FLAVOR TEXT IN THE SECOND GAME IT TALKED ABOUT PLANTS AND SHIT BEING ALL FUCKED UP AND CRAZY CAUSE OF UNRESTRAINED SHAPING

AND THEN THE TWO FORMER SHAPERS WERE CANNNISTER MAD AND POWER HUNGRY AND DIDNT CARE ABOUT THE SERVILES FREEDOM THEY JUST WANTED POWER TO FUCK UP THE SHAPERS

AT LEAST THAT WAS MY IMPRESSION DURING THE SECOND GAME

 

[Correct_Carlo]

Yeah, shaping's always portrayed as dangerous, even in the first game. And there's always a faction of crazy, power mad, rebels to balance out the shapers.

Anyhow, this is probably a good way of putting it:

THEIR IS INTENTIONAL CONFLICT BETWEEN BROS WHO JUST WANNA BE FREE BUT ARE JUST FUCKUPS VERSUS BROS WHO GOT THERE SHIT IN ORDER BUT FUCK UP A FEW TRUE BROS IN THE PRIOVECESS

The Shapers have the right idea when it comes to restraint about shaping, yet they are asshole slavers. Meanwhile, the rebels have the right idea about freedom for creations, yet their lack of restraint when it comes to shaping can be dangerous. And I think the point the game repeatedly makes about both sides (especially in G3 and G4, which lack any "moderate" factions like the "Awakened" who combine the best aspects of both sides into one) is how easily each will sell out their high philosophical beliefs about freedom or shaping for just a little bit of power.

You truly are the 600 pound voice of wisdom, Blobert.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I still need to finish Geneforge 3 and 4, but I completed the other three in the series and I agree it is pretty solid. Right up there with Vogel's Exile series.

I got through the majority of Geneforge 4, but got stuck in a dungeon. I got through a lengthy dungeon before realizing I needed a McGuffin that was far off in a previous location and rage quit since I didn't want to make the trek. I still have the save file, so I probably should reload the game and rectify the issue.

I didn't finish Geneforge 3 because I refused to join one of the two sides. I felt they were both dicks and decided that my character wouldn't want to deal with either of them. I like to think he retired out in the woods somewhere and decided to let the factions fight it out on their own. Which is kinda ironic, since my character in Geneforge 4 was stuck in a dungeon in the middle of some woods, guarded by a Shaper who didn't want anything to do with either faction... hmmm...

 

[Nim]

Nah, because the first and second games go to great pains to illustrate that serviles are functionally human in every way. They can even shape.

No. Only humans could hold essence and shape till Barzahl figured out how it worked and gave the ability to the drakons (G2). Obviously he had no interest in giving serviles the ability to shape which is why they need to use the geneforge to acquire this ability (somewhere between G3 and G4 at the earliest).

And all I'm going to say to the rest of the discussion is this, who gives a shit how bad the shapers are if the rebels are worse ? Once the awakened were gone and the takers in charge it was over.

 

[Pope Amole II]

Geneforge has some seriously pucked up user interface. I remember waking up and being proded by medbot, I was stumbling around rotating and trying to use a switch, I choose rather to fry my cybernetic body in the cell force field.

It's geneforge, not bioforge (though this mistake is sorta understandable).

 

[Nim]

Need to get this out of the way, for maximum objectiveness:

Geneforge 1 graphics are, well, acceptable. At least there are animations /mondblut (i do like the drawings that show on prelude and loading screens, they look cool). The interface, through, looks like one of those bad early 90s rpg interfaces that takes most of the screen and that lime colour is really weird (is there a mod for this?), reminds me of my short play of Baldur's Gate, but with lime. I do wonder why I have to fucking click tab for labelling to appear, INCLUDING names of things. WTF?! Different genres, but why Eador's looks sleeker (and prettier) even through it also made on a indie budget? Fine, graphic whore demons exorcised, vade retro!

The only "mod" stuff you will find for the GFs is editors. That piss green G1 interface color is just yuck. Might be possible to change it yourself though if you can find the relevant file.

The inventory really annoys me, the items don't seem to properly show up or down in the inventory screen when you pick them, appearing in any spot of your invetory, or so it seems. Jeff Vogel clearly hates my OCD "Take all items" ways, through, had to stop myself collecting every piece of trash and rock I saw. You can make knives with rocks, you know? Vogel, stuff exists to be taken!

Inventory gets better with G3, the old one has only one advantage in that you can change stuff while walking.

Turn-based combat is always incline, through so far its doing pretty simplistic, probably because I only have one creation and spell at the moment. No hex grid, of Jeff Vogel. I do dislike the fact you can only attack once (or so it seems), seems simplistic. Beats popamole RT and RTwP clickclakery/click-waitery bullshit, through. Then again, my first sentient and complicated enemy (servile bandits) one-shots my Shaper with a gun Thorn Baton, so what do I know?

Once you get speed you can attack at least twice a turn, also there are crystals that use 3 AP per use iirc ? But don't expect the combat to ever get beyond simplistic.

I'm already pretty imersed with plot and history through. Me, a mere noob shaper who sunk and then acidentaly wandered into some petty power, is now causing ruckus by entering into the fold of a society which is split based alleigance to their once-overlords, which theorically includes me. Seems quite ambiguous so far, gotta see more and think before starting to decide.

Or don't decide at all, you can always go unaligned.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

geneforge is about how abolishing slavery is a foolish and irresponsible idea that will lead to the world being destroyed by dragons

 

[Castanova]

Bro, I got most of Vogel's games for $1 on that Humble Bundle a few weeks ago. I started by playing Avernum 6. It was so incredibly boring I quit and uninstalled after only like an hour. I can't really imagine Geneforge is any better, bro!

 

[SCO]

geneforge is about how abolishing slavery is a foolish and irresponsible idea that will lead to the world being destroyed by dragons

Found another dumbfuck to ignore thanks to this thread

 

[Crooked Bee]

You're such a meanie, SCO.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Finally playing G4 thanks to this thread. Playing as an agent (sorry, Infiltrator), and wondering what my approach should be regarding creations - I'm using my starting Fyora but wondering if it's worth sinking time/experience/gold/canisters into getting better shaping skills so I can have a stronger single creation follower. Waste of time and essence? Do I ever get recruitable followers that would fill the gap instead? What would people recommend focusing on if I do aim for a single stronger creation?

 

[Pope Amole II]

What would people recommend focusing on if I do aim for a single stronger creation?

Don't invest much skill points into it - get some tier-3, maybe tier-4 creation via canisters, skill teachers and shaping skills buffing items, then just level it up by not resummoning it and not letting it die. Heck, maybe even a vlish or terror vlish might work, and you can get them really early, meaning they'll get tons of levels. It sorta goes against the flow of the game and (for a pure shaper) makes it more boring, but overleveled creations are really strong.

Edit: checked out the g4 solution, found that in that part it's really hard to pump your shaping up without investing points into it, therefore, just go for an early vlish (mb upgraded vlish? it's easy to get, but I kinda forgot magic shaping requirements for it) and carry it into the late game.

EditEdit: fuck, so it seems that after a couple of years all of the series mechanics are sorta mixed up in my head - there are no terror vlish in g4. well, the easier it is for you - just care for a single vlish, besides, you need nothing but MS 2 to summon it and, judging from a gamefaq, you can find a vlish canister early in the game.

 

[Admiral jimbob]

Cheers, I'm between that and using gear/stat boosting items to get MS up a bit and summon a Glaahk. Figure that a tank type/direct damage dealer would maybe compliment my mental magic and occasional melee better than a Vlish would, especially against magic-resistant enemies. Not sure about availability/essence cost, though, getting a Vlish now might be more sensible.

 

[Nim]

Finally playing G4 thanks to this thread. Playing as an agent (sorry, Infiltrator), and wondering what my approach should be regarding creations - I'm using my starting Fyora but wondering if it's worth sinking time/experience/gold/canisters into getting better shaping skills so I can have a stronger single creation follower. Waste of time and essence? Do I ever get recruitable followers that would fill the gap instead? What would people recommend focusing on if I do aim for a single stronger creation?

You do get recruitable followers but only for the current chapter (Khur in CH2 as a rebel, Shotwell in CH4 as a loyalist, some help in the fens ). Nothing like Alwan/Greta in G3 that you can take with you for the whole game.
Now, if you want only a single creation then a wingbolt is the obvious answer. No need to use canisters if you have access to shaper camp gamma and they are insanely powerful in G4. Screw the Glaahk and the lower tier creations, they can't compare to a wingbolt.

 

[Pope Amole II]

getting a Vlish now might be more sensible.

Depends on your current level, obviously. To get real benefit from a low-tier creation, you need to summon it ASAP so it gets as many levels as humanely possible.

 

[Nim]

getting a Vlish now might be more sensible.

Depends on your current level, obviously. To get real benefit from a low-tier creation, you need to summon it ASAP so it gets as many levels as humanely possible.

Depends more on difficulty I think. On torment vlish and cryoas made as early as possible will get to-hit problems somewhere around CH4 ? They will also get terrified rather easily, becoming a liability compared to higher tier creations. The other tier 1 and 2 creations are worth even less.

 

[Pope Amole II]

I really doubt he plays it on torment. And what's the point of playing on torment, anyways? Hard is hard enough (heck, if you build it wrong, normal can be hard enough), torment adds nothing but hours of tedious grinding and monobuilds like steamroller servile or daze-you-to-death infiltrator.

 

[Nim]

I really doubt he plays it on torment. And what's the point of playing on torment, anyways? Hard is hard enough (heck, if you build it wrong, normal can be hard enough), torment adds nothing but hours of tedious grinding and monobuilds like steamroller servile or daze-you-to-death infiltrator.

Not really. Only G5 has hitpoint scaling on difficulty. And only G1 and 2 have absolute armor values so that the damage you get on torment is insane compared to normal. G4 has neither and is imo the easiest of the geneforges.

 

[Deuce Traveler]

Just finished Geneforge 3 and the difficulty was there throughout the game if you refused to properly prep. I went with a Shaper Guardian, helped the rebels and Greta, and because I was barely adequate in shaping ability, I relied only on a Thadh Shade at the end game as it could tank and I found it to have greater survivability than more powerful creations. I didn't really struggle at the end, but that's because I used every container I could find, purchased some ability score upgrades, and relied upon haste spores for the last few major encounters. I couldn't beat the major final fights without buffing beforehand, but buffing made it a breeze. I'm glad I stocked up on spores throughout the game, using them only when I couldn't get through a part otherwise. I would mostly use items that allowed my party to be blessed, shielded and hasted to win. Greta is a great asset once she is upgraded as she can hit three opponents at once if positioned right.

I made a mistake, though. Put too many point into Quick Action hoping it would translate to 3 or more attacks, but the most it does is increases your chances for a second attack and helps grant initiative. Helpful indeed, but I would have held back a couple of points for Endurance and Intelligence instead, which I was lacking in badly. So I had a character who was a beast in melee attack, but couldn't take hits or create a tank of a creation to suck up hits for him. Towards the end I pumped up Endurance two or three points, which helped. With a similar bump to intelligence, I was able to drop the Thadh I had been lugging around for the Thadh Shade, with enough essence left over for spell buffs.

 

[BLOBERT]

BRO I ALWAYS PLYED AA SHAPER GOT FUCKED UP BAD WITH A GAURDIAN IN G3 AND HAD TO START OVER

 

[Deuce Traveler]

I always played a Guardian, or in Geneforge 4 a guardian-like character. Usually I went with a character strong in melee combat, some mechanic skill so I could shut down defenses, and pretty good in buffing magic. Being able to buff yourself with shield, bless, and hit point enhancing magic is always a must. Also healing magic to unpoison yourself, remove acid, or heal up during and after combat. Make sure you do not end combat before curing your afflictions. A lot of fights are going to be beyond your abilities without buffing up your character. Also, as a Guardian it is likely that you'll never be very good at shaping, so the creatures you do create are going to likely be meat shields. Give them higher endurance and dexterity so that they can absorb hits or have a chance to dodge attacks.

Never attack directly, but try to take out creatures one by one, by having them notice you, retreating so that they follow you around a corner, and taking them out without their friends detecting your presence and coming over to help. This will take patience, but you can't win by charging into the middle of a numerous opponents.

Even then, some areas might be just too tough for you. Accept that, move on, and try to come back when stronger or when you have better equipment. Try to get your endurance and dexterity and intelligence to five or six points for survivability, and strength higher for melee combat. Don't invest in ranged combat. The enemy likes to close with your character, and you are always limited on ammunition.

If the plant-like creature is surrounded by four pods, then it is quite dangerous. It poisons or spits acid at you, and if you attack it, it swallows a pod to regenerate. To beat it, you have to target its pods, then kill it, or do enough damage to it in one round to kill it. If the plant-like creature is a stalk that fires pellets at you, it is a different defense. Put a shaped creature in front of it to distract its shots while you get in close to kill it. Beware though, as normally if you find one defensive plant like these, there will be others behind it and within range, so when you get into melee with the first, a second and third will take shots at you while you are vulnerable.