MY IMPRESSIONS OF GENEFORGE SERIES

[Crevice tab]

I agree with pretty much everything. I consider GF 2 one of the best in the series mainly because the incredible amount of choice you have in factions - we're up to 5 or 6, right? Counting also the Shaper Loyalists. I do not dislike Vogel's writing, but GF is his peak, and he has failed to evolve since then. A pity and a waste. I am somewhat disgruntled with Vogel, as he has proven to be capable of writing decent stuff, and thanks to his low bar for assets he could have tried something even more complex instead of aping Bioware and finding a cheap way to gain money in Steam. Lowest common denominator and all. And of course, flaming the 'dex with curious blog posts was ... of poor taste. I understand he's old and "he has to defend and sell his work", but remakes after remakes after remakes.... what a waste. Maybe he will remake GF with romance options for Vlishes, who knows.

Eh Vogel is only one man- he's been releasing one game per year on multiple platforms for quite some time and he still manages to stay miles ahead compared to Bioware in writing quality. Give him a small team or more time (which means more money) and I expect he could spawn more original stuff.

Also romancing Vlishes would be .

 

[Correct_Carlo]

The original Avernum artwork was altered for release on Steam. The character designs were taken from the more professionally done (and more tasteful) Avernum remake (or at least for the second trilogy...the first trilogy was never on steam).

Spiderweb's games have never had much stylistic flair. The old games were often crude, while the newer games have well done drawings in a technical sense, but they also tend toward a bare bones, realist, fantasy aesthetic that makes them kind of boring and forgetable. Like, the Avernums have an interesting enough setting that they could really go wild with the artwork if they wanted to. So it's a shame that the artwork makes them look, more or less, like a generic, fantasy, RPG.

That said, Geneforge's black and white ink sketches are probably my favorite art style from any Spiderweb game.

They didn't borrow too heavily from fantasy tropes in the scenes that they depicted, and they had a nice, unique, aesthetic that looked a bit like a wood cutting or etched engraving:

As the series progressed, the style got more cartoony, while the quality dipped drastically at times.

Even for Avadon some of the artwork was still uneven.

Like, most of the in game artwork is competent in that latter, "forgetable fantasy realism" style, but I've always thought the main banner picture for the game was astoundingly awful:

It looks like it was designed by an overly excited 15 year old taking his first computer art class in 1994....maybe that's part of the appeal, though.

 

[Awor Szurkrarz]

I liked the graphics in Exile.

 

[Monstrous Bat]

I agree with pretty much everything. I consider GF 2 one of the best in the series mainly because the incredible amount of choice you have in factions - we're up to 5 or 6, right? Counting also the Shaper Loyalists. I do not dislike Vogel's writing, but GF is his peak, and he has failed to evolve since then. A pity and a waste. I am somewhat disgruntled with Vogel, as he has proven to be capable of writing decent stuff, and thanks to his low bar for assets he could have tried something even more complex instead of aping Bioware and finding a cheap way to gain money in Steam. Lowest common denominator and all. And of course, flaming the 'dex with curious blog posts was ... of poor taste. I understand he's old and "he has to defend and sell his work", but remakes after remakes after remakes.... what a waste.

Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarifications. I wasn't aware of the drama between Vogel and the 'dex and I don't think I want to know.

Maybe he will remake GF with romance options for Vlishes, who knows.

We may be closer to that goal than one would think

About art, you took a bad example, admit it.

I do. G1 had consistently good art though. And I'm sad to hear that the art decline further in the series, I was hoping Vogel would re-hire the G1 artist.

G5 on whatever the highest difficulty is will teach you that there is more HP bloat in heaven and earth than is dreamed of by your philosophy

I'll make sure not to play on the highest difficulty then

 

[Bio Force Ape]

These are like 79 cents each on Steam right now.

 

[NotAGolfer]

Just started Geneforge 1 and so far I'm having a blast. Controls are a bit lacking, wished I could move with keyboard shortcuts. But the graphix are quite okay, there's enough background sound to not make it feel liveless, lots of nice little details (guards saying that their feet hurt ) and the story and premise is fucking great.
Finally a game that justifies you being the center of the universe in a believable way, also RAPTOR MAGIC FTW!

I really dig playing pokemon with my creations.

 

[Hugstari]

Started a playthrough yesterday, so far I like the game. I'm playing the game as a agent which might be a mistake because everybody even the tutorial keeps raving about those Shapers all the time. I'm not really sure what i should be putting my points besides magic that is, i want to make a mage. I put a bunch of points into leadership though, found a dagger lying on the ground immediately after. I like having those extra conversation options available and then killing those evil doers straight after, for the children and that sweet xp.

 

[Sykar]

BROS PLAYED THE WHOLE SERIES ONE AFTER ANOTHER

WAS TOTALLY HOOKED BROS ALTHOUGH THE GAMES GOT A LITTLE BORING TOWARDS THE END

ONE AND TWO REMINDED ME OF THE OLDER 80S GAMES EWHER YOU COULD JUST DO WHATEVER YOU WAMT AND BREAK THEM AND BECPINME A SUPER GOD AND JUST KILL EVERYONE AND ONE HAD THE ENDING WHERE YOU BECOME SUPERMAN AND RULE THE WORLD

THE COMBAT WAS FUN I PLAYED A SHAPER IN ALL OF THEM AND TOWARDS THE LAST GAMES IT WAS COOL MAKING SURE YOU HAD A MIX OF DAMAGE TYPES FOR YOUR CREATIONS

THE BATTLES MOVED TOWARDS MORE SET PEACES AND SHIT LATER IN THE SERIES AND SOME WHERE GOOD BUT THE RELIANCE ON GIMIICKY SHIT LIKE FINDING THE SECRET BUTTON THAT WEAKENS THE BOSS ETC ANNOYED ME OR RESPAWNING BOSSES OR WHATEVER

THE THIRD GAME DIDNT ANNOY ME AS MUCH AS IT DID OTHER PEOPLE WHAT BOTHERED ME THE MOST WAS THE HASSEL TRAVELING BETWEEN ISLANDS

THE FOURTH WAS SORTA A LOW POINT FOR ME I WASNT AS INTERESTED IN THE CHOICES AND THE FENS JUST SEEMED TO DRAG FOREVER

THE LAST GAME WAS GREAT AND I WAS A SHAPER AND THE LAST RUSH ON THE DRAKONS WAS PRETTY FUN AND THE ENDING PROVIDED GREAT RESOLUTION AND THE CHARACTERS SEEMED WELL DONE

OVERALL I CANNOT RECOMMEND THE SERIES ENOUGH IT IS MY FAVORITE NEWER RPG I HAVE PLAYED SINCE KOTC

Still a better love story than Twilight.

 

[TigerKnee]

I'm playing the game as a agent which might be a mistake because everybody even the tutorial keeps raving about those Shapers all the time

There's Shaper, the class, and then there's Shapers, the organization

 

[AetherVagrant]

This thread convinced me to grab them all. I tried Avadon and gave up after it became a giant slog, I figured Vogels early efforts couldnt have been his best... and this mod might actually make g1 bearable.http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index.php?threads/geneforge-graphix-enhancement.98222/

 

[Beastro]

Don't see how the Shapers are viewed as overtly evil in the beginning games like others have said early in this thread. To me they always came off as people acclimatized to things being a certain way like people once were with Slavery in the Western world. In the end, though, even though they set up a fucked up situation, they're the least of the evils in the world thanks to their rebel creations going nuts and doing things that are the reason why the Shapers emphasized so much control and discipline over their work.

One could compare their struggle against their creations to Rhodesia giving up white rule to preserve their country, essentially abandoning their cause to save what little of their nation as they could.

With that said it took me very little convincing to side with them. The stupid forced dialogue of babbling nonsense to support their side was annoying, but with the above mention of acclimatization it does fit what you'd expect to be regurgitated towards being you've been raised to look on as not even worthy talking to on your level and have always been condescending towards.

I'd have rather had dialogue that was more like "I don't know what is good or bad about the overall situation, but the creations going nuts playing with gene technology without regard needs to be stopped and we Shapers are the only ones that can stop them". It also helped that I've always played a Agent character and going RP it wasn't my place to get my mind lost thinking so big picture but to shut down imminent dangers before they got too big, hence why I eliminated all opposers to the Shapers in the first and then sanitized the entire world in GF2 given that everyone in that valley (and the people just outside of it) were tainted and the only way of containing the danger was to do something as drastic as that (I did like the touch in both games reacting to my decisions by saying that after both events my characters went on to be shadow assassins sent to deal with other dangerous threats and was so badass most Shapers were scared of them).

I think the setting is actually the best allegory presented in gaming, or really any media, about slavery and other RL matters of oppression. It shows that, yes, the people behind it were shitty to set things up and enforce it, but it doesn't change the fact that slaves are now going crazy with powers they're too simple minded to wield respectfully, which again, is a strike against theirs masters for for not educating them well enough and leaving them go wild without a strong hand around.

One could compare it to decolonization in Africa if the colonial powers had left behind modern conventional and nuclear weaponry which the ignorant African countries would then start turning on each other (and themselves) without a second thought. Just look at what's been done on that continent with only AKs and machetes since then.

If presented with that, what is then worse? Re-establishing the old European colonial order and all its known evils or having Africa potentially destabilize the entire world in an indefinite Third World War? I know where I'd stand.

There's Shaper, the class, and then there's Shapers, the organization

How'd he miss this one the character creation?

It clearly described there that Shapers are wizard-scientists that their orders centered around, Guardians are their soldiers and open enforcers while Agents do covert stuff cracking down on opposition in more subtle ways.

 

[Agesilaus]

I'm with you, Baestro. I immediately sided with the Shapers from the beginning, they were the only faction that represented something more than total chaos or decline. As Plato says, "any change whatever, except from evil, is the most dangerous of all things."

 

[Nim]

I think the setting is actually the best allegory presented in gaming, or really any media, about slavery and other RL matters of oppression. It shows that, yes, the people behind it were shitty to set things up and enforce it, but it doesn't change the fact that slaves are now going crazy with powers they're too simple minded to wield respectfully, which again, is a strike against theirs masters for for not educating them well enough and leaving them go wild without a strong hand around.

One could compare it to decolonization in Africa if the colonial powers had left behind modern conventional and nuclear weaponry which the ignorant African countries would then start turning on each other (and themselves) without a second thought. Just look at what's been done on that continent with only AKs and machetes since then.

Your analogy fails tho. The serviles and drayks on Sucia couldn't do anything with the powerful artifacts the shapers left behind, it took multiple rogue shapers (Barzahl, Tuldaric etc.) to give them the power to shape and use advanced magic. Without those powerhungry idiots nothing would have happened.

 

[Maschtervoz]

All things considered, Geneforge 1 and 2 are way up there in my personal top favorite RPGs games in general.

Geneforge 1 was great at getting me involved into exploring the world, much better than any shitty walking simulator. This is mostly due to the clever way game mixes the unique setting, the aura of mystery surrounding the Shapers, the discovery focused plot structure and the character progression based on canisters. You are surprised attacked by unknown enemies and find yourself stranded on a forbidden island. The intro tells you that your secretive and powerful organization doesn't usually abandon stuff like that unless some serious shit transpired. Already a strong plot hook and a great incentive for exploration, even without the main objective of finding a way off the island. Then every map and area has you slowly uncovering some clues about what the hell is going on, combined with cool bits of worldbuilding about all the awesome shit Shapers do. On top of it all, you get canisters as the main way of increasing your skills, which really add to the desire to search every corner of the world. Hell, it even goes perfectly in hand with how they are supposed to turn you into an addicted junkie. I can't remember ever having more fun uncovering fog of war.

Then it gets even better with the factions, and freeform structure that lets you just fuck around and do whatever, join whoever you want, double-cross fools, or ignore them. The whole deal with the Geneforge and shaping in general and their ethical implications. Getting your little personal army of loyal Pokemons. So many cool things in this game.

Geneforge 2 does a great job building on top of that, expanding the factions, and, thanks to some balance and difficulty tweaks, building a great sense of progression too. While in 1, the maps were structured so that you had to really go out of your way to run into higher level enemies and most could be cleared the first time you stepped in, the second game spices things up nicely, adding high level creation encounters much earlier. You need to be a lot more careful picking fights at the beginning and there's lots of death traps if you wander off the roads thinking you're tough shit. This is apparent from the very beginning, with the first town's 800 hp guards. I remember getting quite a shock seeing those, after coming from GF1 where only endgame areas had anything resembling that. The initial shock makes the point where you raise an army of cryodrayks and wipe entire Taker scum settlements off the face of the planet extremely rewarding.

The later games were weaker, except 5 which was pretty cool, but they are still decent and better than the usual decline longer series degenerate into.

 

[Beastro]

While in 1, the maps were structured so that you had to really go out of your way to run into higher level enemies and most could be cleared the first time you stepped in, the second game spices things up nicely, adding high level creation encounters much earlier. You need to be a lot more careful picking fights at the beginning and there's lots of death traps if you wander off the roads thinking you're tough shit.

I didn't.

Playing an Agent focused on magic and no pets up would take on almost anything. Did the crystal cavern before the valley when I first found it by using the poison dot to slowly kill the high mobs in there while I regained essence kiting them around. For most other encounters it's just a matter of patience spamming your essence free newbie nuke and wear mobs down. Also did the forest maze test killing the Battle Alpha at the end at low lv, but it did take like two hours being a battle between my essence regen, my dot, his hp regen and his resistance to my dot. Too many resists and he'd gain enough back to render a few of my previous dots moot wiping out large chucks of progess.

Course halfway through the latter encounter I realized I could just run around the Alpha, loot the shack and take off out of range, but that's no fun.

 

[AetherVagrant]

Oh god the combat. Im loving the story, i find i want to read what every minor servile has to say, savoring the books and flavor texts....but but im not sure if i can handle a full games worth of this shit its like wasteland 2 with just a couple party members.
i think this will be like a bathroom book...one to trot out for a bit at a time and make slow and steady progress like a satisfying shit.
but already so much better than any other vogel game ive tried.

 

[T. Reich]

Play shaper-heavy chars, makes (trash) combat fairly fast.

 

[Kem0sabe]

Vogel should port the entire series to his new engine/Ui thing, and get bankrupt by doing it, ending his days living under a bridge screaming that 'indies kill the rpg star'

 

[Johannes]

Oh god the combat. Im loving the story, i find i want to read what every minor servile has to say, savoring the books and flavor texts....but but im not sure if i can handle a full games worth of this shit its like wasteland 2 with just a couple party members.
i think this will be like a bathroom book...one to trot out for a bit at a time and make slow and steady progress like a satisfying shit.
but already so much better than any other vogel game ive tried.

Playing on a non-highest difficulty is somewhat recommended I think, not because it's too hard then but to make the battles lengths shorter.

And figure how to maximize the party's DPS instead of aiming for drawn out battles.

 

[FugueLah]

I'm thinking about picking these up since they are on sale.

What do these games lack that they receive so much less attention than say the Fallout's, WL2, PoE, Underrail, etc.?

 

[Dayyālu]

I'm thinking about picking these up since they are on sale.

What do these games lack that they receive so much less attention than say the Fallout's, WL2, PoE, Underrail, etc.?

Uhm? The Geneforge series is a tad older than WL2, PoE and Codex darling Underrail, plus Fallout is a sacred cow, so your point is kinda weird and moot. They got out in the Dark Age of the RPG games, and nowadays Vogel mostly makes remakes so it's a fairly less interesting developer to follow.

They lack nothing, methinks. Combat is mediocre/serviceable, writing is good for what it is (in my opinion the central conflict of the Geneforge series is far more interesting than pretty much 80% of the RPGs I have played, and it's far, far better than what I'm seeing in Underrail) and graphics are shit-tier.

If you lack the strength to play 5 games, go in order (so start with 1) or if you only want to try one go with 5, it's the most complex one. I like also Nethergate from the Vogel selection, despite it being a little less competent than Geneforge.

 

[T. Reich]

Geneforge was published "indie", in the original meaning of the term, not that crap that it means nowadays. Accordingly, it had 0 marketing budget and was being released outside of popular digital distribution channels.

The only serious drawback of Geneforge series is horrible user interface (up until 4th game, where it got mych better).
Everything else is very good - writing and world-building, systems, questing, exploration. Combat is a bit meh, I suppose, but it's not bad, just average.
If you're a graphics whore, then the graphics overallcan be classified as "butt-ugly" for the time the games came out, but it's not a problem whatsoever for an actual oldschool RPG fan.

 

[Niektory]

IMO the biggest flaw of Geneforge is too much filler combat. It's a great game otherwise, but having to mow down so much trash when combat isn't the game's strongest point sours the experience. Fallout had much less of it which is one of the things that made it so good.

 

[Agesilaus]

Geneforge is one of the best RPG series ever created, and nethergate is top stuff, too.

 

[Correct_Carlo]

There are no downsides to the Geneforge series. I'd say graphics, but the graphics are functional. If it had better graphics it'd just mean the game would be bloated and too large. I'd also say interface, but the interface is also functional. You don't notice its quirks after 5 hours. I'd say combat, but almost all combat can be avoided, which is half the fun.

They are perfect. PERFECT!