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Necessary technical prep for New Vegas

Blaine

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Walked in on this scene:

71aca264b4.png


...and this song had just started playing on the shack's radio (expanded radio mod):

 
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I've actually never played any of the DLC areas. Anyone have tips on when to do them or how to fit them in to a playthough?

I've always hated the modern DLC-peddling way of integrating "new" stuff in with "old" content, meaning not integrated at all but you are expected to just swap between two different worlds whenever the hell. It's like if an author wrote several books and expected you to read them all simultaneously, jumping from one to another mid-sentence if it pleases you.
 

Blaine

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I've actually never played any of the DLC areas. Anyone have tips on when to do them or how to fit them in to a playthough?

Generally, I've tended to play them in this order: Honest Hearts around level 10-15, Old World Blues around level 20-25, Dead Money around level 30-35, and Lonesome Road around level 40-45. Dead Money was released first, but generally speaking you'll have a better time at higher levels when you've got some skill points and implants under your belt for speech/skill/stat checks, crafting stuff at hotplates, repairing armor and weapons, etc. It's a survival/exploration DLC, so going in green kinda sucks. The enemies in the DLCs scale anyway, but the scaling isn't intrusive and gay in the way Bethesda's scaling always is. Also, by delaying Dead Money you'll meet certain key characters in person later in the DLC order, rather than right away, which is more fun since you get to pick up clues and notes about them in the preceding DLCs.

Aside from DM's shift from first to third, the rest of the DLCs were released in the order I've outlined. I suggest doing Honest Hearts first because it offers a lot of aid and chem ingredients and recipes, which is useful early on; also, the weapons and poisons it has to offer are best used and enjoyed by lower-level characters. A poison that deals 150 damage over 10 seconds (the most potent one) isn't all that useful later on, for example. The lack of super-strong weapons or armor is another reason to do it first. Also, Honest Hearts can be quite difficult if you start it around level 15-16, because you'll quickly reach level 20, and then certain very tough enemies will begin to appear.

Old World Blues will probably be a bit tough no matter when you do it, because a design quirk renders sneaking near-useless, and the featured enemies are quite bullet-spongy (Energy Weapons helps). It's best saved for later because it offers some very strong implants, weapons, and also certain utilities and crafting resources. Like DM, it too has some high skill/speech/stat checks. That said, if you want to boost your character early on, doing OWB early might be a good choice... but not too early. There are some frisky enemies in OWB and you'll have no companions to speak of.

Lonesome Road is a dungeon crawl best saved for last because it's best to save its lore/story for later, because it offers some tremendously powerful equipment, and also because I imagine the various enemies will rip you a new asshole if you enter especially early, scaling or no scaling. Plus, you'll make way more cash from looting the featured enemies. That said, it's possible to poke your head in very early and grab a basic version of the game's iconic armor set, but HH also offers a version of it (my favorite one, visually), so there's no need for this level of metagaming.

I've always hated the modern DLC-peddling way of integrating "new" stuff in with "old" content, meaning not integrated at all but you are expected to just swap between two different worlds whenever the hell. It's like if an author wrote several books and expected you to read them all simultaneously, jumping from one to another mid-sentence if it pleases you.

OWB, HH, and DM wall you into their respective areas until you complete them. A lore-based reason/excuse is always given, and it's very necessary in DM's case to prevent you from bringing in overpowered gear. Making do with what you find is a key feature of DM, and one that I like. Lonesome Road allows you to leave and return at any time, so aside from being in different worldspace, it's basically just another area connected to the Mojave. Once you complete Dead Money and leave, you can't return without console commands or a mod. This is mainly to fit the DLC's mystique and to prevent you from taking advantage of certain resources with full access to all of your stuff. You can return to the others at any time after completing them.

They are all accessed from special locations within the Mojave, with transitions generally no different than opening a door from an exterior worldspace to an interior.

In terms of the weapons, consumables, armor and so on, they're very well integrated into the main game. Merchants will for example start selling weapons, weapon mods, and ammo types normally only found in the DLCs once you've completed them. Recipes can generally be created anywhere. After completing DM, a special device unique to that DLC will be available to you from within the Mojave. You will need to return to Big MT if you want to visit The Sink or use it as your home base, via a special item you're given.
 
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Know if the same general order and entry time work when running with JSawyer mod's 35 level cap?
 

Blaine

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Know if the same general order and entry time work when running with JSawyer mod's 35 level cap?

I personally don't recommend playing with a lower cap. I know difficultyfags always recommend a lower cap; I like the game to be difficult too, but I feel it's more fun to progress to 50 and ramp up the difficulty if things get too easy and/or install some mod that increases difficulty in ways other than capping or reducing/increasing final damage dealt/received.

JSawyer turns New Vegas into a hardcore survival game. I like hardcore survival games, but despite thematic appearances, Fallout is a classical RPG and not actually a survival game franchise. I really don't know why people want to play it that way with all of the accompanying annoyances. That's just my personal preference, though. If you do use JSawyer, I hope you're using one of the editions that modders have de-bugged and updated.

The DLCs bombard you with XP, and I'm not sure if the 33% decrease from JSawyer's mod is enough to keep you from leveling up too quickly; but since the level cap is 35, and some quest XP rewards were tweaked according to the JSawyer mod, I suppose the DLCs were kept in mind.

I'd say probably do HH at level 10, OWB between 18-20, DM somewhere between 26-30, and LR only after you hit the level cap, or shortly before. You get one free S.P.E.C.I.A.L. at the end of LR, so maybe plan your final skill values with that in mind.
 

Trashos

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Know if the same general order and entry time work when running with JSawyer mod's 35 level cap?

I agree with Blaine's order. With JSawyer's cap, what I usually do is:
HH ~18
OWB ~ 24
DM ~30
LR ~just before Hoover Dam
If you are using Logan's Loophole, this trait caps you at level 21 in JSawyer. So you may want to swap HH and OWB, so that you get rid of this trait (OWB gives you this option through the auto-doc) in time.

This is not the only correct answer, of course, but should get you started. Additional guidelines:
- I make sure I have good Science before OWB. Get as much stuff as you can with you, you get a room right away- and you can return to OWB at any time after it's over. If a gun user, have the AMR with you for the robots.
- I postpone DM for after I get the Turbo X perk (at level 30), which I find very helpful there. You get none of your stuff with you there.
- HH might be possible at any level, although I haven't tried all levels obviously.
 

Blaine

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If you are using Logan's Loophole, this trait caps you at level 21 in JSawyer.

I need to work on a mod that caps you at level 5. If you take Logan's Loophole, you're instead capped at level 3.

Also, you must drink the equivalent of one bottle of purified water every in-game half-hour, which is just north of a minute, real-time. During the daytime outside, you must drink every 30 real-time seconds. Not only do you have to sleep, but you have to do so on a regular schedule, or it'll throw off your circadian rhythm and you'll receive a debuff until you get used to your new schedule.

The DT of light armor will be rebalanced to 3 on average, medium to 5, heavy to 7, and power armor to 8. The DT of Deathclaws, Cazadores, and Geckos will be doubled.

There will be a new "Sunscreen" consumable added to the game. If you neglect to apply sunscreen, you'll suffer a series of debuffs, culminating in sun poisoning.

People are gonna love this.
 

Trashos

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[

The DLCs bombard you with XP, and I'm not sure if the 33% decrease from JSawyer's mod is enough to keep you from leveling up too quickly.

The XP levels are reworked too (it takes more XP to reach each level). HH and DM are very well balanced, not sure about LR because I do it when close to the cap. OWB is not well-balanced (I routinely get 6 levels there in a completionist run), but it all works out OK for a full playtthrough.
 

Blaine

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I think one of my biggest qualms with survival-style restrictions in a game formatted like New Vegas is that nothing about it is realistic in the first place.

I'm not really talking about the most obvious it's-a-game considerations, like accelerated timescale, hit points, or the lack of extremely granular simulation elements (example: variable temperature with many levels of adverse effects and a wide range of elements-protective clothing). I have the more subtle issues in mind.

Ammo weight is a prime example. Yeah, ammunition has weight. However, at no point in human history did any person stroll around for months fighting enemies and hostile creatures throughout each and every single single day. The sheer quantity of fighting is absurdly unrealistic. Off to take a shit? Attacked by Radscorpions! Cruise into the Grub 'n' Gulp for some water? Legion Assassin squad (RIP in peace, Fitz and Lupe)! Stopping in at the Wrangler for a robojob? Attacked by muggers! Picking some flowers? Cazador swarm! Doing a job for a scientist? Kill a bunch of Seymours and Plant Things!

This is why I feel that any particularly onerous or restrictive survival elements belong in actual, dedicated survival games, ideally the sort in which your goal is to avoid conflict entirely: Neo Scavenger, The Long Dark, etc.
 

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I think one of my biggest qualms with survival-style restrictions in a game formatted like New Vegas is that nothing about it is realistic in the first place.

I'm not really talking about the most obvious it's-a-game considerations, like accelerated timescale, hit points, or the lack of extremely granular simulation elements (example: variable temperature with many levels of adverse effects and a wide range of elements-protective clothing). I have the more subtle issues in mind.

Ammo weight is a prime example. Yeah, ammunition has weight. However, at no point in human history did any person stroll around for months fighting enemies and hostile creatures throughout each and every single single day. The sheer quantity of fighting is absurdly unrealistic. Off to take a shit? Attacked by Radscorpions! Cruise into the Grub 'n' Gulp for some water? Legion Assassin squad (RIP in peace, Fitz and Lupe)! Stopping in at the Wrangler for a robojob? Attacked by muggers! Picking some flowers? Cazador swarm! Doing a job for a scientist? Kill a bunch of Seymours and Plant Things!

This is why I feel that any particularly onerous or restrictive survival elements belong in actual, dedicated survival games, ideally the sort in which your goal is to avoid conflict entirely: Neo Scavenger, The Long Dark, etc.

The ammo weight part of Hardcore mode makes melee/unarmed (or at least very ammo-thrifty weapons like Cowboy guns) significantly more attractive. Honestly, if you're playing Hardcore chances are good you have very high Survival and there is surprising synergy between melee/unarmed and Survival in the form of recipes like Rushing Water. Rushing Water turns you into a whirling dervish of pain in melee with zero addiction issues, and doesn't dehydrate you like alcohol.
 

Blaine

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Well, yeah. With some combination of Battle Brew, Slasher, Med-X, Weapon Binding Ritual, and Rushing Water; 90-100 Melee, Better Criticals, and Elijah's Ramblings; and Pyromaniac and Gehenna (Ninja and Slayer not even needed), you can destroy just about anything while naked on Very Hard, with the possible exception of Deathclaw Promontory.

I really don't think ammo weight is necessary to incentivize melee weapon use, though. I run around with Gehenna doing exactly that frequently (in fact I'm never without it), though I try not to use chems at all unless things get extremely hairy. In fact, given the enormous selection of weapons in New Vegas, de-incentivizing the use of many of them by loading down a reduced carry weight with every single damned thing seems like more of an annoyance and a downside than something that will enhance gameplay.
 
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I've never found a problem with ammo weight due to the decreased weight limits. All it means is that you can't haul home a hundred armors and gun. You need to pick 2-3 weapons for yourself and throw the rest in storage, but that's it.
 

PorkBarrellGuy

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You need to pick 2-3 weapons for yourself and throw the rest in storage, but that's it.
Pretty much. Picking the guns (and consequently the ammo types) to lug can be kind of a difficult choice depending on what you've got, but you basically want a trash-clearer, a solid mid-tier all-rounder, and a top-tier "murders whatever is in front of it" weapon that you break out for really nasty fuckers like Deathclaws. The trash-clearer will probably be your holdout as well, which is fine because there's nothing terribly scary in the casinos, and the only other situation I can think of where holdouts would matter is the Fort. (If you're going to the Fort to fuck shit up, holdouts don't matter anyway)
 

Trashos

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I have a selection of weapons at homebase and pick 2-3, each time with the right type of bullet, for each mission. This style works for me. It makes me think about my tactics beforehand.
 
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It also makes the thematic advantage of Energy weapons more relevant. They all use the same common ammo types and can be converted between pretty freely, or upgraded to more powerful variants. As long as you aren't wasting ammo shooting air you can use pretty much anything against anything, unlike guns where using an anti-materiel rifle on common raiders is a huge waste. Indeed better weapons are more efficient to use rather than less efficient like with guns.

Not that energy weapons needs a buff, of course, but it makes sense.
 

Blaine

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I've never bothered to use the AMR anyway except for funsies, because if you have any amount of marksman- and/or crit-related perks, then Christine's CoS or the Gobi are superior in virtually every situation. There are quite a few slugthrowers that require only one ammunition type to demolish everything, at least if you have Hand-Loader; if you don't, then carrying a small amount of AP is probably sufficient. The Automatic Rifle is a surprising one, because it's easy to pop off one or a few shots to clear trash, or hold the trigger for anything friskier.

Also, Ratslayer. If you have decent crit and Better Criticals, Ratslayer will not only clear trash with a best-in-game ammo-weight-to-damage ratio, but will also clear most things that aren't trash without too much difficulty. This is less true if you've cranked up to Very Hard, one of the unfortunate side effects of which is that lower-tier weapons turn into true peashooters.

Seems to me the "thematic advantage" of energy weapons is more of a disadvantage, because energy weapons don't offer HP or true AP ammo; also, many of the better energy weapons eat 2, 3, 5, or even 10 (Pew Pew, best sawed-off shotgun in the game) ammo per shot. That hardly matters, though, because the Tri-Beam Laser Rifle is hands-down the most powerful and versatile weapon in the game out to medium range. Energy weapons also lack efficient or silent long-range options.

Anyway, I'm a bit of a collector. I collect several copies of every piece of equipment where possible, in case I want to try out using a certain weapon for fun or possibly for actual use, or pop it onto a companion. Also, collecting is an activity in and of itself. Quite literally 99%+ of the stuff I eventually collect (especially ammo and consumables) just sits in storage until I'm finished with that particular playthrough. I could very easily leave almost everything behind instead, but I'd rather take most of the good stuff if I can. This is a game in which every room is filled with consumables and crafting, repair, or Sink materials, after all. All of those 22k-cap unique weapons you might not bother with because you don't need them? Well, I want them. Might not ever use them, but I want them.
 

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Frankly, the next time I replay FONV, I'll completely disable max weight and play it Gothic-style.

On weapons, my personal favourites were:
Firearms:
Paciencia (the unique hunting rifle) - super-high crit damage, it was my to-go long-range sniper weapon for a very long time.
Ratslayer - a cheaper, silent sniper option versus weaker enemies.
12.7mm SMG - my to-go close-range weapon. Plus, it's a FUCKING BOLTER.
Energy:
MF Hyperbreeder Alpha - excellent trash clear, compatible with Laser Commander perk.
Tri-beam laser rifle - possibly the best close-mid range energy weapon if you have the appropriate perks. Plus, it's just a pleasure to shoot.
Sprtel-Wood 9700 - maximum carnage! For when you just want to hold down the fire button and see your enemies dead, dead, dead.
 

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I agree that a lot of Ulysses's dialogue in Lonesome Road was stilted (thanks MCA). However, I did like the post-ending conversation:

 

Blaine

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Paciencia (the unique hunting rifle) - super-high crit damage, it was my to-go long-range sniper weapon for a very long time.

I used it for a while, but found it far too inaccurate at long range. I got used to the Survivalist Rifle's crooked iron sights fairly quickly, so it seems to me that Paciencia is just plain inaccurate, an unforgivable trait in a precision rifle. That was with Trigger Discipline, an oft-maligned trait that I still really like despite its disadvantages (also, I think YUP fixes its buggy slowdown of melee and unarmed weapons).

Tri-beam laser rifle - possibly the best close-mid range energy weapon if you have the appropriate perks. Plus, it's just a pleasure to shoot.

"Possibly" my ass! It unquestionably is. At the endgame now, I have Laser Commander, Thought You Died, Better Criticals, Vigilant Recycler, and of course both ranks of Lord Death, so....

a9d16815b4.png


I've also got 7 Luck, Built to Destroy, Finesse, Elite Riot Gear, and the 1st Recon Beret, which including Laser Commander amounts to a 35% crit chance modified to 52.5% by the Tri-Beam's 1.5x crit chance multiplier. Each beam can potentially crit, and the crit damage with Better Criticals is 33.

So that's 133.2 + 51.97 (average total crit damage per shot) = 185.17 damage per shot, and 2.16 shots per second with Trigger Discipline, so almost exactly 400 DPS. Of course, that's a lot of contributing perks, and it does have a number of disadvantages to balance it somewhat: high ammo use, limited to medium range, fast degradation even with HD caps, and it does lose noticeable damage versus the best-armored critters and NPCs (but the extremely high per-beam crit chance helps to compensate).
 

fantadomat

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I do like to go for 10 intellect build because i am a optimal whore :). Anything else at 5 and maybe some special perks for more mods. Also i don't like energy weapons,prefer the good old hunting rifle,sniper and the 12mm pistol. It is not like the game is very challenging even on higher difficulty. It is shame that the good old bullet to the eye is missing in FNW.
 
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Seems to me the "thematic advantage" of energy weapons is more of a disadvantage, because energy weapons don't offer HP or true AP ammo; also, many of the better energy weapons eat 2, 3, 5, or even 10 (Pew Pew, best sawed-off shotgun in the game) ammo per shot. That hardly matters, though, because the Tri-Beam Laser Rifle is hands-down the most powerful and versatile weapon in the game out to medium range. Energy weapons also lack efficient or silent long-range options.

Ehh? Maximum Charge ammo is pretty much AP+HP combined. 55% more damage is almost always going to help more than an additional -5 DT (assuming you aren't firing a laser pistol at power armor), and HP is only likely to be better against completely unarmored targets (which lasers are already pretty good at shredding, being low damage single shot but high fire rate and no kickback for easy spam). Someone can go load up all of the enemy DTs/weapon damage values in excel and check to figure out all the edge cases where HP/AP are better, but in most cases you'd want the energy types. And the point is that whatever energy ammo you find can be easily converted to anything you want to use. It's basically impossible to run out of the stuff.

Standard laser rifle is basically the same as Tri-beam if you don't need the huge DPS of triple shots. Ends up more ammo efficient per shot w/ the splitter, though you want advanced ammo to not suffer vs. armor. It makes a good sniper if what you are sniping isn't a Deathclaw, can easily kill 3 or 4 raiders with headshots before they go into alert mode.

Q-35 Matter Modulator is also a good ammo-efficient weapon. You essentially get it for free without combat on the short route to New Vegas.

I do like to go for 10 intellect build because i am a optimal whore :). Anything else at 5 and maybe some special perks for more mods.

I hope you mean 9 INT + implant, otherwise this is disgustingly non-optimal.

In any case there's so many skill points you hardly need high INT. Just skilled + skill books gets you around a 50 average in all stats, then if you carry magazines for skill checks you only need to raise most stuff other than your weapon skill to 80. On the other hand there's not much incentive to invest in anything else. All you need to hit is 6 PER/6 AGI, 7 or so END. With CHA being useless the only reason not to max INT is if you wanted to max both strength and luck.
 
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PorkBarrellGuy

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Q-35 Matter Modulator is also a good ammo-efficient weapon. You essentially get it for free without combat on the short route to New Vegas.

Requires decent lockpick/science though IIRC. Q-35 is good, relatively easy to get, cuts down on the Plasma Rifle's downside a fair amount (bolt speed/accuracy). Shit sights (because plasma rifle), but for long-range accurate up-shit-fucking you can get YCS/186 fairly easily (for the love of god shoot the merc with YCS first and try not to hit the gun itself).

AER14 prototype is kind of shit IMO and annoying to get.

I hope you mean 9 INT + implant, otherwise this is disgustingly non-optimal.

In any case there's so many skill points you hardly need high INT. Just skilled + skill books gets you around a 50 average in all stats, then if you carry magazines for skill checks you only need to raise most stuff other than your weapon skill to 80. On the other hand there's not much incentive to invest in anything else. All you need to hit is 6 PER/6 AGI, 7 or so END. With CHA being useless the only reason not to max INT is if you wanted to max both strength and luck.

I always roll with 9 INT to start unless I'm doing Stupid. For shits and giggles (and to see how appreciable/negligible the effects of stats actually are in NV) I took Intense Training to 10 ranks on one playthrough. It's actually sort of sad how little having 10 AGI matters. 10 LUK might be sort of worth it, though. Intense Training SPECIALs in END raise your implant limit, though, which is kind of nice if you rolled up with less than 6-7 END. 10 effective PER should give me fucking GODLIKE powers of perception somehow, and yet compass blip range seems to barely exceed some mobs' CAUTION range (unless you have ED-E, ofc)
 
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Luck is kind of worth it. At least, it does something appreciable unlike Agility's nothing or Strength's melee damage boost. +4 luck with an average 1.5x crit modifier weapon will translate to around +6% damage on average, slightly more with better criticals. My current build is 6/6/9/1/10/6/9 after implants and taking Intensive Training as my first perk.
 

Trashos

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Yes, I finally did some minor testing with Perception and enemy spotting distance (we have been discussing this ITT), and there is no difference between Perception 6 and Perception 10. I guess I should also be varying actor fading variables to see how they affect the result, but I haven't- my test was extremely basic.

Otoh, if I take ED-E with me, the situation is better than if I am with Perception 10 myself (and no Ed-E). For one, a few meters are added to the maximum distance (~10 running steps) for spotting enemies with ED-E. Secondly, E-DE allows for spotting enemies behind obstacles (e.g. behind hills), that I cannot spot on my own at all. So Ed-E makes a considerable difference.

My conclusion is that Perception is either extremely bugged or possibly limited by other variables (like actor fading, which I didn't test). I have no clue how they managed to fuck this up, since ED-E's perception is working just fine.
 

Blaine

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Agility increases draw/holster and reload speed as well as available AP. I have 8 Agility and Rapid Reload, and the difference between that and ≤ 5 Agility without the perk is extremely noticeable.

Perception offers by far the shittiest side benefit, especially since it's rendered moot by ED-E. Mine's perpetually 7+1, and even when boosted to 10 it's far shittier than ED-E's Enhanced Sensors. PE does have a higher-than-average role in speech checks, though, so I suppose there's that.
 

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