Putting the 'role' back in role-playing games since 2002.
Donate to Codex
Good Old Games
  • Welcome to rpgcodex.net, a site dedicated to discussing computer based role-playing games in a free and open fashion. We're less strict than other forums, but please refer to the rules.

    "This message is awaiting moderator approval": All new users must pass through our moderation queue before they will be able to post normally. Until your account has "passed" your posts will only be visible to yourself (and moderators) until they are approved. Give us a week to get around to approving / deleting / ignoring your mundane opinion on crap before hassling us about it. Once you have passed the moderation period (think of it as a test), you will be able to post normally, just like all the other retards.

Necropolis, a procedurally generated "diabolical dungeon delve" from Harebrained Schemes

Major_Blackhart

Codexia Lord Sodom
Patron
Joined
Dec 5, 2002
Messages
18,323
Location
Jersey for now
So has anyone played the brutal edition?

Edit: I want to really want to play this game and like it. But dex so far has convinced me to stay away.
 

Jinn

Arcane
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
4,957
It looks like garbage, dude. Give up your dreams of it being good.
 
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
Improvements to blocking and shield bashing. Stamina costs for successful blocks has been reduced, as well as the threshold for shield breaks has been increased, meaning it will happen less often. Lastly, damage bleed through (in the event of shield break) has been lowered.
What the hell. As if playing defensively wasn't OP already. At launch you could block forever, and shield bash knocked almost every enemy in the game down.
 

LESS T_T

Arcane
Joined
Oct 5, 2012
Messages
13,582
Codex 2014
Sort of postmortem: http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/...rebirth_of_Harebrained_Schemes_Necropolis.php

The death and rebirth of Harebrained Schemes' Necropolis

“Over my career, I’ve learned that ‘fair’ has nothing to do with it.”

Mitch Gitelman is no stranger to the capricious, sometimes brutal whims of the video game industry. With almost two decades of experience, he’s shepherded projects to wild success and devastating failure, and learned how to roll with some of the industry’s hardest punches. So when his studioHarebrained Schemes, co-founded with another gaming luminary, Jordan Weisman, launched their latest project, the multiplayer roguelike Necropolis, to an underwhelming critical response, he wasn’t caught completely off-guard.

“Nobody cares how hard you worked or how much passion you put into your game," he says. "They don’t care that it’s a departure from anything your studio has done before. All they see is the delta between what they expected and what you delivered. So it doesn’t matter what we think or how we feel about the reception. All that matters is listening and then taking action to deliver the very best game you can and entertain people.”

Any creative endeavor is fraught with risk, but few represent a gamble with stakes as high as an indie studio launching a brand new, unlicensed IP. For a studio like Harebrained, the failure of a new IP could mean not only months or years of effort wasted and crushing personal and artistic rejection, but the real potential for financial ruin.

NECROPOLIS-gif03.gif


But those risks are mitigated somewhat by another unique dimension of the video game business. Unlike the creative output of authors or filmmakers or musicians, the modern game developer is uniquely positioned to respond on-the-fly to critical and consumer input, to go back into their creations and tinker with the guts of them, even completely reshape them. Sometimes that process begins as soon as you kick a game out the door.

“Usually after you ship a game, the team gets some well-deserved rest, but not this time,” says Necropolis producer Chris Klimecky. “The next day we were hard at work on our improvement plan while simultaneously pushing to get the game certified for console release. Our first update, including our roadmap for improving the game, went up on Steam the following week, and we’ve been pushing hard since then.”

But supporting a game after release is also an expensive, resource-intensive process. With all these disincentives, launching a brand new franchise starts to look like a daunting task, but the allure of a fully owned property is strong.


The original concept

“We were working on the Shadowrun series and the BATTLETECH license, but we wanted to expand and develop our own IP to add to Golem Arcana and the others we’d developed for mobile,” says Gitelman. “Jordan and I asked our studio leadership to pitch us some new game ideas.”

Jordan Weisman, one of the minds behind legendary game properties like Shadowrun and MechWarrior, says he wanted something distinctive that Harebrained could stamp with their unique brand of design. “The prompt was very straightforward -- the game had to be in an original setting we could own and it had to stand out in the marketplace. The pitches were all great, but Necropolis’ mashup of two great game genres and the focus on 3D action added up to an experience wholly different than anything we’d attempted before.”


Necr3.jpg



That core concept also immediately appealed to Gitelman’s aesthetic sensibilities. “The challenge, combined with the departure from the “safety” of our licensed games, appealed to our sense of ‘Harebrained.’ We greenlit it for prototype right then and there.”

It was quickly apparent that the central mechanic would be combat, with a heavy focus on animation priority and interrupts. The team focused on dissecting every frame of every animation to perfect the feel and timing of each attack across a broad range of weapons. Lead animator Doug Magruder readily points to one of Necropolis’ most obvious influences.

“Combat was straight-up inspired by Dark Souls, and I would say that it was one of the most iterative things I’ve worked on in my career," he says. "The timing of each swing of the player’s weapons were scrutinized to an intense degree, and the timing was what we focused on getting in the game as fast as possible. Once we had what we felt was good timing for a particular weapon set, we would focus on an enemy combatant and it would go through the same level of scrutiny. It was a constant process of moving frames and exit events and adjusting timing to get something that felt right and worked well.”

Because attack animations would be shared between both the player and the enemies and because of the breadth of weapons available, it was important to to create an Animation Controller (a state machine in Unity that triggers and links animations) that was generic and flexible.


Necr4.jpg



“Since there are a lot of different weapons that have their own suite of animations, we needed to dynamically load movesets at runtime rather than being able to bake everything into a single controller,” says Gordon Lee, Necropolis’ chief gameplay engineer. “One of the problems to solve was figuring out what animations connected to other animations but we used a combination of programmatic interruptions that happen through gameplay and natural animation blends. A lot of work was also done to animation events to fire at certain frames of animation, like when a weapon hitbox is active/inactive, or when special game effects trigger. Also callbacks that ran when certain types of animations began and ended were important to keeping control, especially when animations were interrupted. In order to know how much damage or stamina a particular animation might do, we had to separate that data into our own type of action data and connect that with the animation. In this way, we can also create many different types of combos of animation strings and provide information to AI about what actions they can do and in what ranges to their target.”

All of this painstakingly designed animation tech would be for naught without a carefully considered, sympathetic art style. Co-art director Chris Rogers tells us that style changed and evolved as the project developed.

“When we first started to explore visual development for Necropolis, we weren’t envisioning such a heavily stylized game,” Rogers says. “The conceptual approach at that time was much more based on trying to find certain fantasy tropes and riff on them in an interesting way. So there was a lot more texture, a lot more fidelity in some of the early concept art.”


NECROPOLIS-gif01.gif



Because Harebrained is a small team with constrained resources, however, it quickly became clear that a high fidelity, elaborate art style wouldn’t be possible in a game that would require so much character and environmental art and diversity. “So we went back to the drawing board, and instead of asking, ‘What can we add to make this interesting?’ we started asking, “What can we take away to make this interesting?’”

In response Rogers’ partner, co-art director Mike McCain, started plumbing some unconventional sources for inspiration. “We started looking at not only some of the more dramatically stylized games that have come before - Journey and Wind Waker, among others - but also at the world of graphic design. That kind of subtractive thought-process is much more prevalent there. There’s a trend in graphic design over the last few years towards very simple, stylized low-poly pieces, where simple shapes meet rich lighting and rendering. We saw that approach being used mostly for very cheery, cutesy stuff, but soon realized that a dark and inverted version of that could be really effective for the tone of Necropolis.”

With this new direction, the art team focused on carefully selecting what elements were added and highlighted. “Chris and I refer to what we arrived at as a ‘minimalist art style,’” McCain says. “It’s not necessarily ‘low poly’ or angular per-se. Rather, the polygons and angles we do include are carefully chosen to try to include ‘just enough’ information to communicate the idea or tone of a given character or environment.”


Necr1.jpg



After months of head-down design, implementation, and hard work, initial impressions seemed positive. Designer Connor Monahan talks about the team’s optimism after some early showings.

“We were encouraged by the feedback we were getting before the game launched. We’d shown the game to very enthusiastic crowds at multiple PAX conventions. A few dozen members of the press had also played it and gave us generally positive feedback. Just before launch, we held a 12 hour live co-op event for a large group of well-known streamers and they came away with only positive things to say. So heading into release, we were feeling pretty good about it. Cautious as always, but good.”


The Revamped Version

It came as a bracing surprise then when the game launched to generally lukewarm reviews. Necropolis is currently hovering around 61 on Metacritic with 32 reviews, with a number of critics pointing to a lack of variety and repetitive environments and gameplay bogging down a game with real potential. For Monahan, it was both surprising and deflating.


NECROPOLIS-gif02.gif



“When the reviews came out saying the opposite of what we’d been hearing for months, it was kinda like whiplash mixed with a gut-punch," Monahan says. "The immediate human reaction is to say, ‘Well that’s not fair,’ or ‘That isn’t right.’”

But instead of wallowing, Harebrained immediately mobilized to right the ship. “After the initial shock ended, Mitch got the studio together, acknowledged the feedback, itemized specific changes that were needed, and focused us on a roadmap for immediately improving the game.”

Massive changes were called for, and the work of addressing them started right away. “The plan we developed had to cover everything spanning all aspects of the product, including game balance, loot economy, environment variety, and even AI behaviors," says Monahan. "From everything we were reading, it was clear that the criticism wasn’t coming from a place of spite, but rather a genuine hope of a better game. So we put our heads down and started making the changes to deliver on that.”


Necr2.jpg



While the team isn’t interested in glossing over a bumpy launch, they’re focusing on the future, including a full slate of content updates and console editions.

“Right now, we’re finalizing the Necropolis: Brutal Edition for release right after PAX West,” Klimecky says. “The Brutal Edition takes all the content expansions and game improvements we’ve made to-date, adds even more, and then tosses in a new player character (The Brute) plus an all new outdoor winter environment called the Black Forest. That’s the version we’ll release on Playstation 4 and Xbox One later this summer.”
 

Infinitron

I post news
Staff Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
97,442
Codex Year of the Donut Serpent in the Staglands Dead State Divinity: Original Sin Project: Eternity Torment: Tides of Numenera Wasteland 2 Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 A Beautifully Desolate Campaign Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire Pathfinder: Kingmaker Pathfinder: Wrath I'm very into cock and ball torture I helped put crap in Monomyth
I think Harebrained Schemes' "we just listen, we don't talk" approach to gathering user feedback means they're more likely to be misled by sycophants. You need to go out there and show your game to the edgelords, not just the mouthbreathers at the cons. The good thing about Kickstarter is that it does this for you automatically.
 
Joined
Nov 8, 2007
Messages
6,207
Location
The island of misfit mascots
Looks interesting.

Not 'I'll spend $5 on it' interesting, but still, there's the potential for it to become 'I'm glad this exists and I look forward to reading about other people playing it' interesting.

That's no mean feat, given that 'procedurally generated and not ADOM'
(which has the blessing of fuckloads of secret hand crafted stuff hidden in a forest of procedural generation, and locked behind puzzles set at a 'developer vs the entire player base working in concert' difficulty level, back when he was actively developing it and you never knew what new shit would be hidden in a patch purportedly for bug-fixing - with the player base, coordinating their exploration via forums, taking years to find stuff that had been put in 12 patches earlier.)
is usually the worst description one could possibly apply to a game in terms of my interest level. Never found one I didn't hate (ADOM doesn't count for the reasons explained), and the entire concept sounds like 'hey, instead of applying craft and design, you can have some random shit that is far below the level of creativity that went into making the procedural generation system itself'.

Edit: in case it wasn't obvious, I made this post after reading just the 1st page, and not the rest of the thread.
 
Last edited:

Jaesun

Fabulous Ex-Moderator
Patron
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
37,250
Location
Seattle, WA USA
MCA
I think Harebrained Schemes' "we just listen, we don't talk" approach to gathering user feedback means they're more likely to be misled by sycophants. You need to go out there and show your game to the edgelords, not just the mouthbreathers at the cons. The good thing about Kickstarter is that it does this for you automatically.

Very true.
 

Metro

Arcane
Beg Auditor
Joined
Aug 27, 2009
Messages
27,792
Went from Bundle fodder interesting to maybe $5-10 in a sale interesting. Overall I still feel this game is a huge letdown considering the development time and delays. Still lacking in content like more enemies, bosses, levels, better itemization, etc. And, yes, relying on feedback from 'streamers' (people who are basically paid marketing shills, just paid by the consumers and not the company itself) playing co-op was moronic. Make sure you have an enjoyable single player game before you derp around with multiplayer. Regarding the art, there's low poly and then flat out lazy. It's not that the art was low poly it's that there is so little to look at visually it's almost like you're staring at gray models waiting for the textures to pop in after a brief load. But... they never pop. The level/background art is entirely too bland.

Also, also, wouldn't surprise me if a decent amount of this stuff was slated for paid DLC but then they wisely realized they should put it out as such for a game that got a horrible reception.
 
Last edited:
Self-Ejected

Excidium II

Self-Ejected
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
1,866,227
Location
Third World
Also, also, wouldn't surprise me if a decent amount of this stuff was slated for paid DLC but then they wisely realized they should put it out as such for a game that got a horrible reception.
Very likely.

Also they don't seem willing to address the main problem with the game: it's way too fuckin easy.
 
Last edited:

As an Amazon Associate, rpgcodex.net earns from qualifying purchases.
Back
Top Bottom