Need a blobber that appeals to my discerning and superior taste.

[Strange Fellow]

In BT1 and games like it I don't even look what the enemy is, and hit AAAADD.

Do that with tougher encounters and you will die. You’ll often pull through with that strategy, just like you'll often pull through with select all + left click in IE, or setting everybody on Quick in Gold Box, but in tougher encounters you will die. You're being very flippant with your dismissal of the strategic layer. Blobbers are about much more than just combat, and playing a blobber is anything but mindless. It's not the games' fault that you don't care for everything else they have to offer.

 

[Jacob]

So combat in Grimoire is better than in the classic blobbers?

It will be, once 3-7 nanoissues are fixed!

Have you played Wizardry 8? Fits the "meaningful combat" criterion better than any other blobber I've played.

If by "meaningful combat" you mean "unending slog with respawning enemies," sure. And I liked W8.

It's a lot less frequent, more complex and more deadly than most blobbers. If you don't like combat then blobbers aren't for you, plain and simple. If you just hate AAASSS encounters, however, wiz8 might satisfy you.

More complex? Yes. Did I like it? Very much yes. Less frequent? Fuck no. Did I like that? LOL no.

Seriously, W8 combat with the positioning and everything is a joy, but it's slooooooooow. Plus the level scaling makes getting from point A to point B (where B is the nearest unlocked teleporter) take forever even in the late game.

This is why someone needs to do a game based on my shower thoughts:

What I haven't said there: when you took an action, all the enemies took an action at the same time, so combat isn't slow. Imagine a roguelike turn-based system. It's a bit slower than roguelike though, since you control 8 characters instead of 6, but there won't be waiting for minutes just for enemies to reach you, and if you have the movement the appropriate movement skills or spells (such as teleport x distances) you can avoid combat altogether if you wish so. In dealing with taking control of multiple characters on a roguelike turn-based, I propose that in the beginning of the player's turn, they have a choice between moving or doing anything else. If you choose to move, everyone moves, if you choose to take action, you get to decide what each member would do before confirming and let the action took place.

 

[Haplo]

So I've been playing the remastered Bard's Tale and I realize the game is popamole on steroids. Dungeons are Skinner rat mazes for me to hack apart all manner of life until I get my pellet of food/level up.

Are there any top tier blobbers that have more focus on exploration and meaningful combat? I'm not a huge storyfag, but some story isn't a bad thing. I've played Grimcock and Wizardry.

Bard's Tale is like the Might & Magic series to me. It's just kill, kill, kill. It's like they're made to appeal to lobotomized dope fiends. I lack the requisite autism to properly appreciate those games.

Top tier real crpg blobbers with content for people with discerning and impeccable taste and their lesser brethren worth mentioning (not for you since most are kill, kill, kill, but for others that read the thread looking for recommendations)-

Might & Magic 10 (MMX) is an absolutely excellent crpg blobber with content - far different than any before it, if you haven't played it you are missing out. Same with Wizardry 8 (Wiz7 is a bridge between the old style and new with better chargen and dev and a decent amount of content). RoA 1, 2, and 3, as well as both Buck Rogers. Wizards & Warriors has weird combat and hitting a bat is based on a timing, but belongs in the same category and is a great game with some issues.

Starcrawler is like a mission based blobber with arpg style itemization. It doesn't give me exactly what I look for in a crpg blobber, but is worth looking into. What it does - it does well.

I would say MM - World of Xeen is comparable to Wiz7 in goodness and content. MM6-8 have even odder combat than Wizards and Warriors, but if you like bad combat that can be gamed (like being able to kill a high level dragon with a level 1 party by circle straffing), and don't mind rpg-lite chardev, these are good games. MM9 I see as being no different than MM6-8, but the people that loved 6-8 hate 9. They'll have to tell you why. Sword & Sorcery - Underworld was good, but lite everything (chargen, dev, story, content).

For oriental blobbers most of them have the same type of gameplay as Bard's Tale 1, and the same extremely rpg-lite systems and chardev. Elminage Gothic is like BT1 squared. It offers nothing but convoluted dungeons and far less story than BT1. Elminage Original at least attempted to give you somewhat of a reason to be where you are and do what you do, but has the same derth of chardev and meaningful rpg systems. I've heard people say these games don't get good until you are in new game +. By this, they mean combat does not require thinking until you put 100 hours plus into it. To each their own I guess.

Strangers in Sword City gave me more hours than most oriental blobbers do. Its a decent game with rpg-lite chardev that has an interesting twist in allowing you to open up skill slots for skills of past classes with extreme grinding.

Most of Etrian Odyssey have good chardev, and lite questing/story, but at their core they really are "dungeon, and more dungeon, and then more dungeon games." Definitely worth at least checking out, but are not near top crpg blobbers like MMX/Wiz8.

Operation Babel games - decent blobbers. Rpg lite chargen and dev, as good as Strangers story/content-wise, but instead of "ambush" areas to get gear upgrades, it has a mats system where you upgrade items like in Elminage games.

I would say also comparable would be the Class of Heroes games. 2 being better than 1. Rpg lite, but blobbers with content. One throws some puzzle dungeons at you right away, where 2 had decent dungeons with lite puzzles for a good while.

(Alice in Wonderland game that came out recently was decentish for me, but like most oriental blobbers it gets very formulaic after a while. I got at least 15 hours out of it, which is really good for me. There are others like Ray Gigant that was too lite to hold my interest).


- Could be really great IF - There are these Shin Migazi Tensue (not spelled right at all) games for handholds and one of them is a blobber that I know of (for the DS, and I think I saw an "enhanced" version of it for 3ds). You enter some sort of demon bubble. This game would have been great for me besides instead of having a real party you recruit demons and merge them to upgrade them. If that type of little kid trite appeals to you, that game should be a blobber you definitely should check out. I didn't get far into it due to the pet recruitment nonsense, but everything else about was really great, and if I could make my whole party like in a real crpg blobber it would probably be listed in the top tier with MMX, Wiz8, RoA 1-3, both Buck Rogers, W&W.

EDIT - I left out Grimoire, which is like a better Wiz7. Too kill, kill, kill focused for the OP, but 100% required for blobber fans.

Never expected to be in such agreement with Roqua. But that really is an excellent list which also reflects my taste very well.
Well, Operation Babel was too drawn out (endless corridors) and generally too easy for my taste (random encounters).

My short list of modern blobbers:

1. MM X Legacy: Best, by far. Amazing combat and character development mechanics. Nice little puzzles. Pretty nice world building (if a bit too small).

2. Elminage Original / Gothic. Gothic has far more enemy variety, better combat balance and bigger and more devious maps. Also some mechanical improvements: Ex Skills, monster adventurers, more balanced class abilities. But is a very bare bones exploration/combat engine. Original flows much better, wrapped in a story and quests and is generally nicer to play. Also the world opens really early. One serious disadvantage is that you quickly overlevel content and already by the mid game challenges are missing, which you only find again in the post game.

3. Stranger of Sword City. Pretty good, though dungeons are not nearly as complex as in Elminage. Its a lot more accessible though. Has quality of life improvements, like auto-walk to selected map tile. But the story is very anime. The art style is good though.

 

[Max Heap]

Sakura Dungeon

 

[Grauken]

But we can all agree to disagree on what we want games give us. I will never agree, or agree to disagree, that simple games with overly repetitive, simple, no-try, autowin combat somehow has good combat. If it does not require me to think or pay attention even a little - its bad combat, even if the boss fights, or the few challenging battles it does have are super well done.

But, again, there are lots of games with bad combat I love despite having bad combat.

Any Wizardry or serious Wizardry-like would eat you up if you played like that, you mindless twerp

 

[Modron]

Sakura Dungeon

I prefer

 

[Darth Canoli]

So combat in Grimoire is better than in the classic blobbers?

I'm not actually serious. I don't think one is superior to the other. But I do prefer games that have minimal combat and a more fleshed out environment with secret passages to find, riddles to solve, etc. Bard's Tale is a game that I can see being addictive, it just doesn't trigger that sweet dopamine release for me.

BTW, is Grimoire worth playing? I wish that crackerjack had a goddamn manual for his shit.

No, it's not.
It's randomly hard because higher level monsters are thrown in low level areas.
I'm not saying the combats aren't interesting, the first feel is good.

Then, it's repetitive, because in the 4 early dungeons, monsters are all the same (with a slight variation sometimes), it's extremely boring.

The worst thing being the puzzles, which locks you up in the first area, you need to find items from various dungeons, then come back to the dungeons with different items, combine some, that's boring as hell.
The plot is stupid, in comparison, M&M stories are Jack Vance's novels.

It's patterned after Wizardry 7. With phase-based turns and multiple options available to all characters, an emphasis on monster ranks and initiative order, and itemization that is fun to use.

I know you have some fair criticisms of Crusaders, but I think Grimoire addresses these. The encounter rate is configurable, so you can go from wandering a map with much fewer battles, to fighting near every step. I find the unique loot drops are better, including a variety of weapons with interesting properties and unexpected status effect abilities.

Well, now i understand why i mostly disagree with you.
I just can't stand Armoire ...
I really wanted to like it but i can't and saying it's patterned after is an understatement, Wiz 7 was stripped naked and stolen piece by piece, except the sum of its features aren't equal to the result, how can someone add such terrible puzzle and story to a successful system is beyond me, it's a crime against RPG gaming.

If someone did that to Wiz 8, i'd have to gather my bitcoins to hire a hitman.

 

[mondblut]

So combat in Grimoire is better than in the classic blobbers?

Well, you can turn off random encounters, for starters.

 

[Roqua]

But we can all agree to disagree on what we want games give us. I will never agree, or agree to disagree, that simple games with overly repetitive, simple, no-try, autowin combat somehow has good combat. If it does not require me to think or pay attention even a little - its bad combat, even if the boss fights, or the few challenging battles it does have are super well done.

But, again, there are lots of games with bad combat I love despite having bad combat.

Any Wizardry or serious Wizardry-like would eat you up if you played like that, you mindless twerp

Name one. Not any of the games I mentioned in my post. I am dying for a new game so if you know of some secret good rpg I haven't I'd love for you to prove me wrong. But chances are, objectively, you will be wrong. If you are going to name a game that is mindless shit for 20 hours, and then all of a sudden magically gets challenging, I'm not slogging through 20 hours of shit to prove you wrong or myself right.

 

[Roqua]

But we can all agree to disagree on what we want games give us. I will never agree, or agree to disagree, that simple games with overly repetitive, simple, no-try, autowin combat somehow has good combat. If it does not require me to think or pay attention even a little - its bad combat, even if the boss fights, or the few challenging battles it does have are super well done.

But, again, there are lots of games with bad combat I love despite having bad combat.

Any Wizardry or serious Wizardry-like would eat you up if you played like that, you mindless twerp

Name one. Not any of the games I mentioned in my post. I am dying for a new game so if you know of some secret good rpg I haven't I'd love for you to prove me wrong. But chances are, objectively, you will be wrong. If you are going to name a game that is mindless shit for 20 hours, and then all of a sudden magically gets challenging, I'm not slogging through 20 hours of shit to prove you wrong or myself right.

Grauken - Don't call me out and then give me an eye-rolling button. Give me the name of this magic Wizardry-like that would eat me up, please. Or at least have the limited amount of sanity and reason it would take to admit I am right if you can't.

 

[Jacob]

I prefer

Those art

 

[Strange Fellow]

It seems the concentration of incline that is Wizardry 8 is too much for Scrooge to handle

 

[Jacob]

One question for you dungeon crawling autists - how do you rate the Pokemon series? Please answer only if you actually played the games. Thnx.

Battles are limited to 1v1 or 2v2 (Newer games have 3v3 AFAIK, but still, the combat is staged as a duel between your pokemon and your opponent's, when you face wild pokemon it's always 1v1). Dungeons are easy, with the exception of some annoying wild pokemons, but that's frustration, not challenge. There's no basic attack button, each Pokemon in your party has 4 slots to "equip" their moves, which can be either damaging moves or status effect moves. Each pokemon and their moves have "types", basically elements, which has weaknesses and strength against other types. Pokemon's moveset isn't limited to their type, though, so it adds depth to how you "equip" your pokemon. Example: Your water pokemon sometimes have ground type moves, or he can learn it, so you give him one. This gives that pokemon an advantage when fighting against electric pokemon who is weak to ground but will rape your water pokemon with its electric attack.

Still, overall it's on the easy side, have type advantage and level your pokemon properly, and usually it's no trouble, but after all it's a game for kids and it's really good at teaching kids RPG logic (It's a game that taught me "potion" isn't the same as "poison").

 

[Roqua]

Since the nuCodex community is super smart and so good at reasoning and saying things they can back up with logic and examples, I will assume all your helmets have recently been tightened causing a loss of oxygen to your brains.

Strangers of Sword city is a great example of a blobber that actively tries to keep you engaged. It makes combat go way faster, smoother, and with far less resource usage to have different skills and incentivize you to use them in a way that will kill all enemies faster and more efficiently. It would be a lot better if it had more tough/boss fights more often, but the combat system was definitely not a "hands-off, no-think, auto-win system." The Operation Babels did this to a much lesser extent. The Alice in Wonderland game did this pretty well too - with the blood splatter system adding a little more incentive to pay attention. I thought the first map of the graveyard area, when I only had three party members to clear the first half, was perfect. I had to pay attention and try. In fact, the more I think about it, the reason I stopped playing wasn't because I was bored with combat, it was partially because the side-quests (which I have an ocd need to do before continuing on with the MQ) started sending you all over east kabbish and the more dungeon areas I cleared the more opened, the less I could keep a handle on remember what the fuck was going on. The other part was right around then I had enough mats to switch classes, or try out the class switching mechanisms - and I forget the details but it was very disappointing between what I thought it was going to be and what it was. I think I thought it was going to let you keep the passives you opened with one class, which I focused on opening for everyone, but took the passives away but let you keep the active abilities? I forget the details but it was disappointing, especially after grinding mats for hours.

Wanting a game to keep my involved, and making somewhat of an attempt to keeping me paying attention, and to make me try a little and think a little isn't me being ridiculous. Anyone defending a thoughtless system of oversimple mindless retardation for people with Attention Surplus Disorder are being ridiculous.

 

[aweigh]

I'm beginning to think roqua hasn't actually played any of these games and is just eLARPing.

 

[Jacob]

What is this Alice game Roqua keeps talking about? Can't find it on steam or even google.

 

[aweigh]

He means Mary Skelter. You can find it's relevant thread in the JRPG sub-forum. And yes, it is objectively less mechanically complex than even Wizardry 1, which is why my suspicions about his true intentions arose; for starters it doesn't even have party or character creation, so take his word at your peril.

 

[Roqua]

I'm beginning to think roqua hasn't actually played any of these games and is just eLARPing.

Can you explain why? What is something incorrect I've said? Did something fall on your head during the hurricane causing you to lose your sanity and reason? You used to far more reality-based and logical. What happened?

 

[Roqua]

He means Mary Skelter. You can find it's relevant thread in the JRPG sub-forum. And yes, it is objectively less mechanically complex than even Wizardry 1, which is why my suspicions about his true intentions arose; for starters it doesn't even have party or character creation, so take his word at your peril.

Jesus, what the fuck does that have to do with having passive or active combat? Every game is better with full party generation. But full party gen doesn't mean the combat will be good.

You've literally gone full retard nuCodexer. You were one of the few people with poor taste that at least could follow a simple argument and put together a point or two.

 

[Jacob]

He means Mary Skelter. You can find it's relevant thread in the JRPG sub-forum. And yes, it is objectively less mechanically complex than even Wizardry 1, which is why my suspicions about his true intentions arose; for starters it doesn't even have party or character creation, so take his word at your peril.

Idea Factory

 

[aweigh]

Mary Skelter combat is "active" in the sense that you have to click stuff every random battle but it has little strategy because the stuff you click is obvious or outright told to you by the game, and more importantly it is rarely 'optional', it is simply stuff you click. If you were to compare the proportion of clicks per turn between Wizardry 1 and Mary Skelter then Skelter would win every time, however its combat is still less objectively complex than a comparable Wizardry 1 encounter, and the Wizardry encounter will always have many more variables and permutations by default, using any measurable standards.

You've gone on and on and on for pages about your distaste for mindless combat but have failed to show good examples of what you consider to be better until now with your praise for Stranger of Sword City (a fantastic game) and Mary Skelter (a standard/mediocre knock-off, but still somewhat servicable game):

- From your writing I think that what you mean by "active combat" has to do with the proportion of 'clicks-per-turn', or rather by the amount of times you have to choose a different command from the menu other than 'Fight'.

- The amount of "content" stems from the amount of "questing" done in the game, and quests come from talking to NPCs; however the quality of the quest seems to be irrelevant and only the density matters, the 'clicks-per-word' if you will.

- The level of "complexity" in the game, and thusly its level of "RPG-ness", is a direct result of the proportion between clicks-per-turn during combat and clicks-per-word!

 

[DraQ]

Wizardry 8 on ironman, with wizfast is unlikely to be boring.

 

[Roqua]

Mary Skelter combat is "active" in the sense that you have to click stuff every random battle but it has little strategy because the stuff you click is obvious or outright told to you by the game. If you were to compare the proportion of clicks per turn between Wizardry 1 and Mary Skelter then Skelter would win every time, however its combat is still less objectively complex than a comparable Wizardry 1 encounter, and the Wizardry encounter will always have many more variables and permutations by default, using any measurable standards.

You've gone on and on and on for pages about your distaste for mindless combat but have failed to show good examples of what you consider to be better until now with your praise for Stranger of Sword City (a fantastic game) and Mary Skelter (a standard/mediocre knock-off, but still somewhat servicable game):

- From your writing I think that what you mean by "active combat" has to do with the proportion of 'clicks-per-turn', or rather by the amount of times you have to choose a different command from the menu other than 'Fight'.

- The amount of "content" stems from the amount of "questing" done in the game, and quests come from talking to NPCs; however the quality of the quest seems to be irrelevant and only the density matters, the 'clicks-per-word' if you will.

- The level of "complexity" in the game, and thusly its level of "RPG-ness", is a direct result of the proportion between clicks-per-turn during combat and clicks-per-word!

Or, if you'd stop trying to impress nuCodex kids by being a plantain sucking low-brow savage saying hollow words and empty statements and actually think reasonably and logically you'd see you don't have a leg to stand on. You put words in my mouth instead of actually replying to my points.

You've really lost some functionality. The other day I asked you an extremely simple question about if I could somehow get the Wizardry game that is only on the PSN and PS3 without buying a PS3, and you replied with a bunch of crazy nonsense and said buy a PS3. Your comprehension skills have gone way down.

I'm worried about your health. Have you had a medical check-up in the last year or two? If not, you really should. Work pressure/stress can do a number on your mind. I know from experience.

I really don't ant to get into more retard-fights on the this site. So I am done trying to have reasonable/intelligent debate since it isn't going to happen.

But to make you feel better I will say crazy nonsene to make you happy - Wizardry 1 has the deepest, most complex, most choice heavy rpg system ever made. The chargen/partygen options are more choice heavy than anything seen since. The chardev is so heavy and complex it is near impossible not to gimp your party and make winning the game impossible. The game has so much content and stuff to do that combat is only 10% of the game, and each battle is like a boss fight where you have to plan and strategize for hours before committing, and only people with 300+ IQs have even a sliver of a chance of winning these God battles that other games consider trash battles. The amount of choices possible are so vast in one round of battle that even Bobby Fischer went insane trying to fathom the infinite possibilities in the first round of the first encounter in Wiz1.

There, you win. You are right. I am wrong. I am bowing out.

 

[Grauken]

Yeah, a win for sanity

also play Wizardry 4 (either of them) by mindlessly clicking on enemies. See how far that will get you

 

[aweigh]

I only mentioned the PS3 because you said you only had a PS1 and a PS2, and you were asking about how to play (this PS3 game) on a 'playstation'.

You can play Labyrinth of Lost Souls on the PS3 emulator called RPCS3 if you want (it's what I did). It isn't the best example of a japanese Wizardry (it's a mediocre game, IMO), but it's leagues above stuff like Mary Skelter.