Neverwinters Nights vs Dragon Age

[Mangoose]

still we're talking about the quality of the games, not of their mods.

Developing the module system takes time away from developing the OC, if not taking more time.

 

[Jarmaro]

Neverwinter Nights = Module platform.
Dragon Age = Not ^.

We are comparing games as they were, modules don't matter.

 

[Mangoose]

Neverwinter Nights = Module platform.
Dragon Age = Not ^.

We are comparing games as they were, modules don't matter.

The OC is half of the game. The module system is the other half. $$$ and time were put into it.

 

[Mangoose]

I just don't understand why they didn't make Nwn party based? That my question.

I think Bioware envisioned their platform as playing D&D via the game online, i.e. being used by a real GM with real players playing in a party. What actually happened was that people made single player modules instead, probably because it was not feasible for a GM to churn out a good module every session every week forever.

 

[Lacrymas]

Judging by the OC, I'd say the modding tools took like 90% of the time, the OC was probably put together in 2 months tops.

 

[Jarmaro]

The OC is half of the game. The module system is the other half. $$$ and time were put into it.

May I then call skyrim awesome game beceause Bethseda made mods possible?

 

[Lacrymas]

I just don't understand why they didn't make Nwn party based? That my question.

I think Bioware envisioned their platform as playing D&D via the game online, i.e. being used by a real GM with real players playing in a party. What actually happened was that people made single player modules instead, probably because it was not feasible for a GM to churn out a good module every session every week forever.

Probably. VtM: Redemption had a similar premise, however, but you could control your other party members. The decision to be one-char still baffles me, the first sign of modern decline?

 

[Haplo]

I just don't understand why they didn't make Nwn party based? That my question.

I think Bioware envisioned their platform as playing D&D via the game online, i.e. being used by a real GM with real players playing in a party. What actually happened was that people made single player modules instead, probably because it was not feasible for a GM to churn out a good module every session every week forever.

That actually happened, although the audience was probably far smaller. There were appointed weekly/monthly GM sessions. Even match-making tools.
And plenty of so called Persistent World servers, which were a bit MMO style experience, only worth far less grinding, a much better system and often an active GM/admin staff. GMs would supervise the gameplay and create various adventures and events within the game worlds. Of course actual talent and dedication were a real treasure. ...

 

[Delterius]

NwN's modding community is a testament to the modding community's efforts. There were many mod tools since those times but only the classic ones -- WC3's world map, NwN's engine -- got anywhere. All that richness of play is on the players themselves, not on BioWare.

And for what its worth, there's the codexian module for DA:O.

 

[JarlFrank]

NWN has the better mods and is the better multiplayer RPG. No party control makes it a shit-tier single player RPG.

DA:O is the better single player game because you have party control.

The original campaigns are both mediocre but DA:O is more enjoyable than NWN, although it suffers heavily from copypasted filler content.
NWN's OC is just shit. Zero redeeming features.

 

[JarlFrank]

The best NWN modules are those that focus on non-combat gameplay because single character D&D combat is just not much fun, especially when it is slow RtwP.

 

[Nahel]

The OC is probably the worst BioWare have ever done and that's saying a lot. It's very clinical and game-y. That's why you don't play it and play the other wonderful things NWN can offer you. DA:O can only offer you its OC + expansion, which isn't very good, so pick your poison. The only thing holding the combat in NWN back is the inability to directly control your party members, but if you want to be challenged regardless of lack of party control go play Swordflight.

Dragon Age 2 was worse.

 

[Lacrymas]

Depends on what you mean. Gameplay-wise, yeah, narratively - not so much. DA2 is their only attempt at breaking the Bioware formula and by virtue of its character-centricity it was a step in the right direction.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Depends on what you mean. Gameplay-wise, yeah, narratively - not so much. DA2 is their only attempt at breaking the Bioware formula and by virtue of its character-centricity it was a step in the right direction.

You post seems to contain this valid criticism thing but at the same time, you've actually played DA2, which makes your opinions totally worthless.

There were many mod tools since those times but only the classic ones -- WC3's world map, NwN's engine -- got anywhere

There actually WEREN'T many mod tools for anything resembling an RPG since NWN1. NWN2 comes close and surpases it in many areas but who the fuck cares about NWN2, right? At least, that's what I learned on the 'dex after 99th time defending it.

DA:O had a toolset but it was lucklaster on release and, basically, had only cutscene editor and area editor actually working. It went through a bit of patches but still very little came out of it.

Div: OS' toolkit was similarly a fucking joke on release, somewhat fixed now, apparently. Still, the grand total of 4 actual mods "released" in 2,5 years (one of which is a "demo" by developers) is a testament to how interested Larian is in fulfilling its KS promises. Well done, I guess.

Shadoruns have a toolkit, but it doesn't allow edit skill tree, spells, feats, etc, thus, the produced content differs very little from the campaings.

Iceblink engine is a pretty great set of tools, heavily mimicking NWN1 but, eh, it's a goldbox-like.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

still we're talking about the quality of the games, not of their mods.

Developing the module system takes time away from developing the OC, if not taking more time.

so we should all drive ford Ts and piss on the ferraris because developing a decent car takes time away from developing a shit car, if not taking more time.

 

[Lacrymas]

No, you should play the user-made modules and/or official expansion campaign :p

 

[Deleted Member 16721]

Iceblink engine is a pretty great set of tools, heavily mimicking NWN1 but, eh, it's a goldbox-like.

You say goldbox-like like that's a bad thing. I'd love to play a huge, sprawling RPG on the Iceblink Engine. I still play NWN mods, though, and probably will for a long time.

 

[DramaticPopcorn]

Iceblink engine is a pretty great set of tools, heavily mimicking NWN1 but, eh, it's a goldbox-like.

You say goldbox-like like that's a bad thing. I'd love to play a huge, sprawling RPG on the Iceblink Engine. I still play NWN mods, though, and probably will for a long time.

Not bad, per se, just less mainstream, which leads to less exposure which leads to less mods.

 

[Mangoose]

still we're talking about the quality of the games, not of their mods.

Developing the module system takes time away from developing the OC, if not taking more time.

so we should all drive ford Ts and piss on the ferraris because developing a decent car takes time away from developing a shit car, if not taking more time.

Look:

Dragon Age the game consists of one part: the OC.
NWN the game consists of two parts: the OC and the module system.

And there are NWN modules that are way better than decent. That are way better than Dragon Age. A good amount of NWN modules have C&C and bunches of skill checks and similar nice stuff (because certain players are luckily not dumb and have modding skills). Maybe even one series of modules is longer in campaign time than Dragon Age. Actually, the number of hours I've played NWN modules is probably way more than I spent in anything, and I haven't played NWN in... almost a decade?

You want to only compare games? Okay.

Let's say release price is the same, $50, can't remember if things went up to $60 yet..

With NWN, you pay $50 for a module toolset system and a crappy OC.
With DAO, you pay $50 for a moderate OC.

 

[MadMaxHellfire]

moderate > crappy.

is not that hard to understand.

 

[Haplo]

However the crappy game has an awesome toolset, the likes of which hasn't been done very often. Plus expansions which are actually pretty good, especially HotU.
Provided lots of entertainment for 5 years of my life. A feat no other game came near.

 

[Lacrymas]

Has anyone done a comparison between NWN's modding tools and Redemption's? NWN seems to have caught on more, maybe because they're easier to use?

 

[ERYFKRAD]

Has anyone done a comparison between NWN's modding tools and Redemption's? NWN seems to have caught on more, maybe because they're easier to use?

Think VtMR's level building needed 3d modelling and stuff, not sure.

 

[RuySan]

DA:O was average, but mostly enjoyable.

NWN:OC was one of the dullest rpg i've ever played. Needless to say I've never finished it.

 

[anvi]

But the end was the thing that made it all worthwhile! Wrecking the place with high level spells was fun.