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New Total War game: Warhammer

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Alright, I got the following mods installed now:

- less agents (only one agent per type limit to prevent agent spam by the AI)
- Home Region movement bonus (although roads make this mod semi-obsolete in the second game)
- March Stance 100% cost (to prevent the march/sack settlement ability of the AI)

I might add another mod that eliminates or slows the vortex rituals down, I don't like that particular mechanic at all. And there's SFO, but I'll have to do some more research on it before I give it a shot.
You can ignore or delay the Vortex rituals to an extent. If an opposing faction reaches the final ritual, it will trigger the final battle that you can win and cancel the ritual. You still need a main stack that can handle the battle though and that will not stop another faction from triggering it again.

I also think there are benefits to being behind on the Rituals initially. In my Kroqqar, Hellebron, and my current Alarielle campaigns, I held off on any ritual until I had a sufficient economy and focused on exterminating certain nuisance factions first. For example, with Kroqgar, I took out the Skaven and Vampires (pre-Tomb Kings) before the corruption level got out of hand. Similarly, with my Alarielle campaign, I took out all the northern norsca settlements, before they could spread more chaos corruption. Exterminating the nuisance factions reduced the difficulty of the latter rituals, although my Kroqgar campaign consisted of Teclis and Tyrion sending endless waves of doomstacks from opposite directions.

Personally, I wish the Vortex rituals also caused upkeep reduction in the Norsca factions and increased the spawn rate of Brayherds and rogue armies. Currently, it is too controlled and predictable, although I find myself enjoying the various campaigns.
 

thesheeep

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get CTT over SFO. SFO ist super overrated.
How so?
I currently replay every second faction or so in the first game with SFO and am enjoying myself MUCH more than I did with vanilla.
SFO really makes each unit more meaningful (both in its strengths and weaknesses) - and from what I read also adds a few units, though I didn't play every race in vanilla vs mod so I'm not certain here.

You are probably talking about the second game, but I'd think SFO is the same style in that game as it is in the first.
 

rashiakas

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Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, SFO isn't bad and certanly better then vanilla, but it is also bloated and adds features I don't really want all the time in my game, also there is some unit bloat. CTT on the other hand does exactly what it says, it changes all units as close to tabletop values as possible and nothing more and it does it way better then SFO in my opinion.

And yes, go get the second one, it has its problems but the huge mortal empire map is totally worth it.

Also, I would at least add better AI, passive agents, faster end turn camera and no diplomacy offers to your modlist Anthedon.
 

Parabalus

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Alright, I got the following mods installed now:

- less agents (only one agent per type limit to prevent agent spam by the AI)
- Home Region movement bonus (although roads make this mod semi-obsolete in the second game)
- March Stance 100% cost (to prevent the march/sack settlement ability of the AI)

I might add another mod that eliminates or slows the vortex rituals down, I don't like that particular mechanic at all. And there's SFO, but I'll have to do some more research on it before I give it a shot.
You can ignore or delay the Vortex rituals to an extent. If an opposing faction reaches the final ritual, it will trigger the final battle that you can win and cancel the ritual. You still need a main stack that can handle the battle though and that will not stop another faction from triggering it again.

I also think there are benefits to being behind on the Rituals initially. In my Kroqqar, Hellebron, and my current Alarielle campaigns, I held off on any ritual until I had a sufficient economy and focused on exterminating certain nuisance factions first. For example, with Kroqgar, I took out the Skaven and Vampires (pre-Tomb Kings) before the corruption level got out of hand. Similarly, with my Alarielle campaign, I took out all the northern norsca settlements, before they could spread more chaos corruption. Exterminating the nuisance factions reduced the difficulty of the latter rituals, although my Kroqgar campaign consisted of Teclis and Tyrion sending endless waves of doomstacks from opposite directions.

Personally, I wish the Vortex rituals also caused upkeep reduction in the Norsca factions and increased the spawn rate of Brayherds and rogue armies. Currently, it is too controlled and predictable, although I find myself enjoying the various campaigns.

Another good reason to delay Vortex (especially as HE) is so you can trade with the other main factions. You get a stacking relationship malus, but they only declare war on you on the last ritual, so you can keep milking them for a long time if you set it up first.

The AI intervention armies are basically gold deliveries (and food for Skaven), they give like 10k+ a pop and easy to defend :M.

The whole ritual mechanic can basically be ignored and you can just play domination if you don't like it, like Maculo says.

get CTT over SFO. SFO ist super overrated.
How so?
I currently replay every second faction or so in the first game with SFO and am enjoying myself MUCH more than I did with vanilla.
SFO really makes each unit more meaningful (both in its strengths and weaknesses) - and from what I read also adds a few units, though I didn't play every race in vanilla vs mod so I'm not certain here.

You are probably talking about the second game, but I'd think SFO is the same style in that game as it is in the first.

Is the mod balanced alright? Thinking about giving it a go but the huge amount of changes makes me think it's a mess. WH2.
 
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thesheeep

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get CTT over SFO. SFO ist super overrated.
How so?
I currently replay every second faction or so in the first game with SFO and am enjoying myself MUCH more than I did with vanilla.
SFO really makes each unit more meaningful (both in its strengths and weaknesses) - and from what I read also adds a few units, though I didn't play every race in vanilla vs mod so I'm not certain here.

You are probably talking about the second game, but I'd think SFO is the same style in that game as it is in the first.

Is the mod balanced alright? Thinking about giving it a go but the huge amount of changes makes me think it's a mess. WH2.
That depends on what you mean with "balanced alright".
It doesn't change the game's biggest problem with balancing: the AI.
It does, however, make the AI build more varied armies (and I even saw a specialized siege army once), so that's something.

I definitely found the balancing of each single unit more interesting - their roles are more clearly defined.
While some units were always good against infantry, but less good against anything else (for example, Chaos Chariots), in SFO they are even more devastating against infantry (even though anti-large infantry also hurts them a lot) and pretty damn useless against large enemies.
Armor is stronger, but so is armor-piercing.
They also vastly reduced the number of units in some squads - but significantly increased their stats.
Slayers, for example, have only three units in the group (in contrast to a dozen or more in vanilla), but each one is a combat monster.
Or the other way around with zombies, making them even worse, but even more numerous.

All in all, pretty much everyone says the game is harder with SFO (SFO normal mode is like vanilla hard mode, etc.).
It took me MANY tries to even survive the first two dozen turns with Clan Angrund.

One thing that I actually found a bit worse than vanilla was the auto-resolve and its prediction.
This was weird as hell in vanilla already, with it telling you some easy battles are hard, while it can auto-resolve impossible battles into a victory for you.
Expect way more extremes here with SFO. Certainly not all the time, but I had some decisive victories where the game showed a 100% full red bar - and I'm not talking about sieges.
Though I don't think the mod can be blamed here - mods might not even have a say in how these predictions are made. And with how SFO makes the balancing more "extreme" it likely messes up the predictions even more.
On the plus side, this actually makes you fight more battles instead of just resolving them 95% of the time :lol:
 
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Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Has anyone played with Choices & Consequences mod installed? Allegedly, it tries to apply more of a RPG progression system to stats and level-ups. For example, you can upgrade the shield quality of basic spearmen from bronze level to silver, etc.
 

thesheeep

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Well, I just failed my Norsca (Wintertooth, to be precise) campaign (first game).
It was great fun, really!

The Norscan gameplay is really significantly different from the other races. I do not like pure horde gameplay, as I always found the campaign map part extremely lacking.
But Norsca offers some base building and options here, plus of course the nice monster hunts forcing you to walk across the whole continent sometimes to get somewhere (raiding and pillaging on the way, of course). And some of those hunts battles are brutal (at least with SFO).
Having no artillery or noteworthy long range weapons also makes the battles feel fairly unique. You just HAVE to rush (and flank) - pretty interesting.

In the end, I failed because I didn't know that following the main questline would trigger the Chaos invasion - of course I decided to fight Chaos - and my armies were split around the continent doing raiding and monster hunting.
Only my main stack was available to defend. I had three glorious battles in a row, the last one against Archaon's fully upgraded and experienced army of pretty much nothing under 100 armor.
In the end, I only lost by a very small margin despite starting worn out and at just 60-80% of health on my units (after the two other battles) - and Archaon got "killed", too.

However, there were still 6+ other full Chaos stacks roaming my lands, so I just called it a day and stopped the campaign.
Next time, I won't do the final questline battle before having done the monster hunts and other victory conditions and have all my stacks ready to defend.

I was just a bit surprised Chaos focused entirely on me. Had they spread out, I'm fairly sure I could have managed. I might have been able to manage anyway, but I didn't want to spend another 100 turns on it ;)
I'm also not sure what to think of Hellcannons. I mean.. two shots of those basically annihilate a basic squad (1700-2500 damage!!!). And their hit chance is way over 50%. Seems kinda OP, and every Chaos stack had two of those.

But yeah, pretty much the most fun campaign experience I had so far - and Throgg is a fucking monster. In the final battle, he fittingly duked it out alone with Archaon - and won by a large margin (both characters lvl30).
 
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Parabalus

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I'm also not sure what to think of Hellcannons. I mean.. two shots of those basically annihilate a basic squad (1700-2500 damage!!!). And their hit chance is way over 50%. Seems kinda OP, and every Chaos stack had two of those.

I did a Chaos ME run recently and after I got hellcannons I spent the better part of the battles just manually guiding them.

Shit's hilarious and strong AF, gotta try the Greenskins Doomdiver Catapult next.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
Well, I just failed my Norsca (Wintertooth, to be precise) campaign (first game).
It was great fun, really!

The Norscan gameplay is really significantly different from the other races. I do not like pure horde gameplay, as I always found the campaign map part extremely lacking.
But Norsca offers some base building and options here, plus of course the nice monster hunts forcing you to walk across the whole continent sometimes to get somewhere (raiding and pillaging on the way, of course). And some of those hunts battles are brutal (at least with SFO).
Having no artillery or noteworthy long range weapons also makes the battles feel fairly unique. You just HAVE to rush (and flank) - pretty interesting.

In the end, I failed because I didn't know that following the main questline would trigger the Chaos invasion - of course I decided to fight Chaos - and my armies were split around the continent doing raiding and monster hunting.
Only my main stack was available to defend. I had three glorious battles in a row, the last one against Archaon's fully upgraded and experienced army of pretty much nothing under 100 armor.
In the end, I only lost by a very small margin despite starting worn out and at just 60-80% of health on my units (after the two other battles) - and Archaon got "killed", too.

However, there were still 6+ other full Chaos stacks roaming my lands, so I just called it a day and stopped the campaign.
Next time, I won't do the final questline battle before having done the monster hunts and other victory conditions and have all my stacks ready to defend.

I was just a bit surprised Chaos focused entirely on me. Had they spread out, I'm fairly sure I could have managed. I might have been able to manage anyway, but I didn't want to spend another 100 turns on it ;)
I'm also not sure what to think of Hellcannons. I mean.. two shots of those basically annihilate a basic squad (1700-2500 damage!!!). And their hit chance is way over 50%. Seems kinda OP, and every Chaos stack had two of those.

But yeah, pretty much the most fun campaign experience I had so far - and Throgg is a fucking monster. In the final battle, he fittingly duked it out alone with Archaon - and won by a large margin (both characters lvl30).
Honestly, I found Throgg too difficult and changed to Wolfrik. Before Archaon spawned, I managed to fortify the northern most Norscan settlement that Chaos always crosses through from their spawn point. I used Wolfrik and 1-2 other stacks to snipe lone Chaos armies that moved too far ahead of Archaon, or used lightning strike. I then retreated back to that settlement to make a final stand. It was my beaten up army (Wolfrik, 1-2 other stacks of cheap infantry) and the garrison against Archaon and 2 other Chaos armies. I barely won, but Norsca was incredibly enjoyable. I wish Total War had more of those moments where you can buck the trend, whether that be Chaos or Order.

Also, I tried the Choices and Consequences mod out and I would play it more if not for the constant crashes. The crashes were so consistent that I just could not stomach another load screen. Despite the multiple crashes, the mod made the game more difficult (more so than SFO in my opinion) and less mindless. Less mindless in the sense that I felt each battle was more significant, because elites units were capped similar to Tomb Kings, replenishment rates start off incredibly low, and archer units were no longer godly. For example, base replenishment can take several turns, even in towns, to fully heal armies. Consequently, colonizing ruins too quickly nearly cost me a Malekith campaign, because Norsca capitalized on my weakened armies. My normal strategy of relying on Dark Shards did not work as well, because many shielded receive 75% missile block chance from the start.

SFO has many more features than Choices and Consequences, but I think I prefer Choices and Consequences mod's simpler approach to difficulty. SFO inserts complexity in the form of various downsides or trade-offs (e.g., each building has a penalty), whereas Choices and Consequences simply restricts replenishment and elite units.
 
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Anthedon

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CTT is more to my liking, so far. I started a new HE campaign with it just now. Standard archers are puny compared to vanilla, damn.
 

Filthy Sauce

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I've been thinking to get one of these Warhammer games. Is the first or second considered better?
 

GrainWetski

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Depends on what races you want so just look at the races available to the games. Ideally, you want all of them for the Mortal Empires campaign, but it makes the game cost quite a bit.
 

Parabalus

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I've been thinking to get one of these Warhammer games. Is the first or second considered better?

I started with TW:W2 and tried going back to the first one, but couldn't - too many improvements in the sequel. W1 is just DLC for W2 at this point imo.
 

Anthedon

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Addendum: CTT makes autoresolve yield worse results than vanilla (from what I've seen so far), sometimes dramatically so. Which might become a problem in the long run if you don't want to babysit every battle.
 

AwesomeButton

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Do you guys actually finish your TW campaigns? How many turns do you play?

I only played one campaign to the end, that was with the Dwarfs, when the game was just released. I started a second with the Vampire Cunts but I grew bored when it was evident I'm powerful enough to obliterate whoever I decide. Also, how is the AI cheating and spawning armies out of nowhere, is it still widespread?
 

thesheeep

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Do you guys actually finish your TW campaigns? How many turns do you play?

I only played one campaign to the end, that was with the Dwarfs, when the game was just released. I started a second with the Vampire Cunts but I grew bored when it was evident I'm powerful enough to obliterate whoever I decide. Also, how is the AI cheating and spawning armies out of nowhere, is it still widespread?
Some factions have victory conditions mostly unrelated to the state of the world (e.g. Britonnia and partly Dwarves).
But I agree with the general sentiment, I also usually stop by the point I have no more serious contenders - after that it would just be busywork and map painting.
Especially in TW:W since you get absolutely no reward for finishing the long campaign. Just some shitty victory screen to show how your campaign went in fast-forward (as if you didn't know yourself, big WTF here).
I was really disappointed the first time I finished a campaign. Does the second game offer more in this regard?

I would say I usually stop at around turn 150, though I have also finished a campaign once at 120 or 190...
The AI army spawning out of nowhere is unfortunately a thing, but afaik limited to events & quests. The "normal" campaign AI doesn't just magically conjure whole stacks out of nowhere.
 

Lone Wolf

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There are scripts that spawn Chaos, Beastmen and Rogue armies.

The main factions, however, get no AI freebie armies.

In unrelated news, here's my modlist:

(STANDALONE) Landmarks of the Old World
Building Progression Icons II
Dryrain's Reskin Overhaul I-IV + SFO (that's 5 mods, total)
Faster End Turns
GCCM Unique Faction Capitals
Guv's Foundation Skills for Old World Legendary Lords
Home Region Larger Movement Bonus
Improved Arrow Trails
Instant Quest Battles
JR's Old World Skill Overhaul + SFO Patch (2 mods)
Landmarks of Ulthuan Lite Edition
Mixu's Legendary Lords 1
Mixu's Legendary Lords 2
SFO Submod Mixu's Lords Mods
Old World Rites
Parte Legendary Lords + SFO Patch (2 mods)
Rebanner II
Regiments of Renown Compilation (SFO Edition)
Sebidee & Ado's All Factions Officers
Skip Intro Logos
Steel Faith Overhaul II
Stupid Campaign Heroes (totally optional, if you don't want to deal with agent assassinations/blocks/sabotage)
TW:W2 59 Skillpoints
Trebor's Old World Legendary Lord Traits Overhaul
HN Banner Overhaul OR [Mortal Empires] Tabletop Banners and Emblems

There are lots of other 'added spice' mods. In particular, mods that add units. For the Elves, Willemsen's High Elves Expanded adds some really neat units, as an example. But a lot of people scoff at new units, so I've included none of that above. You can even get a submod to remove the ones added by SFOII, if you want.

One big omission is Cataph's stuff.

Namely, Kraka Drak, the Southern Realms and the Faction Unlocker. These are all great mods (Kraka Drak and the Southern Realms are on the scale of bona fide campaign packs), but there have been some compatibility issues recently that might have only just now gotten ironed out. Haven't checked yet.
 

Parabalus

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Do you guys actually finish your TW campaigns? How many turns do you play?

I only played one campaign to the end, that was with the Dwarfs, when the game was just released. I started a second with the Vampire Cunts but I grew bored when it was evident I'm powerful enough to obliterate whoever I decide. Also, how is the AI cheating and spawning armies out of nowhere, is it still widespread?

I finished my Vortex campaigns and no Mortal Empires, would get get bored with the latter after collecting all race LLs and it becomes just business. After 100 turns it goes kinda downhill, but Vortex campaigns end around there.

The spawning is just for "special" event enemies, rest obeys rules but with inflated income.
 

Maculo

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Strap Yourselves In Pathfinder: Wrath
I finally got Choices and Consequences ("C&C") mod to work (had one incompatible mod), and I would recommend it. The Lord progression trees can look strange, but it is worth taking the time to read what the skills do now.

In addition to reduced replenishment, I also enjoy the interaction between Lord army buffs and unit ranks. Units appear to obtain ranks far slower than vanilla or SFO, and many of the Lord army buffs do not become active until a unit reaches a certain rank. Vanilla TW2 introduced the mechanic, but it only buffs units at rank 7. In contrast, C&C provides for multiple tiers. For example, one of the Darkshard buffs provides fifteen percent (15%) range outright, fatigue resistance at rank 4, and thirty-five percent (35%) ammunition at rank 7.

Consequently, the loss of a ranked unit means you have to start all over again to obtain the higher tier Lord buffs. Furthermore, it gives more weight to technology/traits that increase recruit rank and executing captives for unit xp. I have had plenty of fun with SFO, but I honestly believe C&C does a better job with difficulty and tradeoffs.

I've been thinking to get one of these Warhammer games. Is the first or second considered better?
Personally, I lean towards TW2 more. TW2 is more focused with the Vortex campaign and the faction mechanics are more complex or elaborate compared to TW1 factions. Also, TW2 has the Mortal Empires campaign mode, which has a campaign across the entire map, although I do not remember if you need TW1+ DLC to play TW1 factions in Mortal Empires.

Do you guys actually finish your TW campaigns? How many turns do you play?

I only played one campaign to the end, that was with the Dwarfs, when the game was just released. I started a second with the Vampire Cunts but I grew bored when it was evident I'm powerful enough to obliterate whoever I decide. Also, how is the AI cheating and spawning armies out of nowhere, is it still widespread?
In TW1, I finished all except Empire, Dwarf, Greenskins, and Vampire Counts. Something about those campaigns made me so frustrated after turn 60. I remember Bretonnia and Wood Elves taking around around 185 turns, perhaps less. For Beastmen and Chaos around 200.

In TW2, it depends. I believe I finished Khatep within 125 turns, but normally I would say around 180-200 turns for other campaigns.
 
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Anthedon

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Shadorwun: Hong Kong Divinity: Original Sin 2 Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire
The good thing about the Vortex campaign is that you can finish it with (comparatively) little map painting.

How anyone has the stamina to complete a Mortal Empires playthrough is beyond me, the turn times alone make me contemplate suicide.
 

rashiakas

Cipher
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Pathfinder: Wrath

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