Nioh: Feudal Era Dark Souls

[Cowboy Moment]

Frankly, if you're going to make a game about fighting enemies in walled off corridors (see Dark Souls 3), then you better at least have a good combat system, which Nioh does.

Theoretically you can beat the game without any healing items, but realistically speaking, how often is that going to happen? Not likely too many times on your first playthrough while you're still learning the enemies. That fuccboi Tachibana Muneshige really tossed my salad hard and I would've been happy to have some healing items for him. As Hyperion said, Team Ninja has a tendency to fuck you up the ass at a moment's whim.

I'm pretty sure most players who beat these bosses in the Beta didn't waste time farming healing items before every attempt, making it more of a git gud problem of yourself, rather than one with the game.

 

[Hobo Elf]

I'm pretty sure most players who beat these bosses in the Beta didn't waste time farming healing items before every attempt, making it more of a git gud problem of yourself, rather than one with the game.

Got some stats to back them words? Either way, you're making excuses for a shit system and are wrong because of that.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

I'm pretty sure most players who beat these bosses in the Beta didn't waste time farming healing items before every attempt, making it more of a git gud problem of yourself, rather than one with the game.

Got some stats to back them words? Either way, you're making excuses for a shit system and are wrong because of that.

There are obviously no stats, but I watched a bunch of streams of new players making their way through the Beta, and have seen absolutely noone try to farm elixirs. I've also followed Beta impressions threads on a few fora (including mainstream casual ones like NeoGAF), and don't remember anyone complain about having to farm healing items for bosses (there were complaints about having to kill enemies to charge up your Guardian Spirit, which is fair). So, I'm afraid to say, this one's just you being unable to cope with the difficulty and venting about shit game design, as you often see with people trying Souls games for the first time.

The system is fine, and does not require farming under any circumstances, unlike truly shit healing systems in DeS and Bloodborne.

 

[Hobo Elf]

The system is fine, and does not require farming under any circumstances, unlike truly shit healing systems in DeS and Bloodborne.

Honestly, I did not farm healing items in either of those games, but it doesn't excuse the system for being a crappy mechanic, just as it's lame in Nioh as well. Estus Flask is the superior system. Looking for Estus upgrades was also a nice incentive to explore the world for meaningful loot, something that is severely lacking in Nioh.

 

[sullynathan]

They need to up the healing from 3 to 5, I can't arsed to search for green monkeys. They need to add a jumping button for better traversal of the environment and proper platforming, that rooftop level is an example of bad things to come. They need to fix the whole thing where the game automatically holsters your weapon when you interact with certain items (summoning red phantoms or opening chests).

Finally, I don't know if this game has fast travel but the part I played in the demo didn't have it. It also seems like it is impossible to run past enemies in this game, they chase you for a long ass time.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Probably the best designed level segment in the demo, the village with rooftop traversal, is very explicitly build around being unable to jump. Thus, it becomes easy to recognize retards by their complaints about not being able to jump there.

The system is fine, and does not require farming under any circumstances, unlike truly shit healing systems in DeS and Bloodborne.

Honestly, I did not farm healing items in either of those games, but it doesn't excuse the system for being a crappy mechanic, just as it's lame in Nioh as well. Estus Flask is the superior system. Looking for Estus upgrades was also a nice incentive to explore the world for meaningful loot, something that is severely lacking in Nioh.

But.. Nioh's system is basically a combination of these. You start off with a relatively small amount of healing items that you can increase by finding hidden stuff (the little green guys), and you also get drops from enemies. The result is that you never have to farm and can't trivialize the resource management by farming (the flaw of the DeS/BB approach), but you can also continue progressing and never run out of healing if you play well enough (which is the positive of the DeS/BB approach). One problem with being able to increase your base healing stock via exploration is that it typically results in having too little healing at the beginning (DS2) and too much at the end (DS3), so I hope they don't go overboard on that. Stages in the demo weren't very long and had plentiful shrines and shortcuts, so I don't think the base amount of healing needs to go up too much.

 

[sullynathan]

No its not, the rooftops sucked. Getting stuck between the platforms. The only nice touch was being able to fall down

 

[nomask7]

It also seems like it is impossible to run past enemies in this game, they chase you for a long ass time.

Always hate that in action rpgs. I remember a moment in Oblivion when a skeleton from a dungeon followed me across the overland map all the way to the central city, like some obsessed serial killer stalking me. Game didn't let me fast travel, because "monsters nearby". And Bethesda didn't even bother making monsters run fast enough to ever catch you or be able to land a hit. But oh, they wouldn't let you go, ever. It was so fucking stupid.

It may be hard to find a good balance between making monsters troublesome and at the same time avoidable, but I think Gothic 2 and some Dark Souls levels are very good at it, so it's not undoable. And better to err on the side of making fights too easily avoidable than not making them avoidable at all, I mean in games like this where it should be up to you if you want to skip some content for the price of losing some xp.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Being able to run past enemies is pretty dumb to begin with in an action game focused on combat. It's only really necessary in Souls because there are no checkpoints and the games can't just respawn you inside the boss room. So as long as you can skip everything on the way to a boss easily, you have no room to complain.

 

[Harg Harfardarssen]

The result is that you never have to farm and can't trivialize the resource management by farming (the flaw of the DeS/BB approach), but you can also continue progressing and never run out of healing if you play well enough (which is the positive of the DeS/BB approach).

I think the flaw in the DeS approach is that the "play well enough" to never run out of healing is way too low. I played DeS when in first came out and I don't think I ever "needed" to use healing as long as I was willing to replay a stage or boss a few times. Grass was only for brute forcing my way through areas without learning them. I'm not an amazing player by any means (although skill standards in these degraded times are incredibly low). Really using grass on anything other than a boss was silly, and by the time you knew a boss well enough to justify blowing resources, you were good enough to just beat it without them.

So there was no need to use grass, which, when coupled with the relatively high number you could have in your inventory and the various tiers of grass, added up to either never really using grass or just spamming it to bypass skill development because your supply was virtually infinite.

I thought the Bloodbourne approach did an ok job of splitting the difference between DeS and DkS There were consequences to spamming healing in that you depleted a more limited stock and you could never carry enough healing to totally trivialize a battle. The farming was annoying, but not that bad since you could just buy vials with your souls/echoes loose change.

How this relates to Nioh...err, splitting the difference more is good? yes, that's it. I think a small amount of guaranteed healing with grinding for more to allow people to craft their own difficulty sounds like a reasonable approach.

 

[Hobo Elf]

But.. Nioh's system is basically a combination of these. You start off with a relatively small amount of healing items that you can increase by finding hidden stuff (the little green guys), and you also get drops from enemies. The result is that you never have to farm and can't trivialize the resource management by farming (the flaw of the DeS/BB approach), but you can also continue progressing and never run out of healing if you play well enough (which is the positive of the DeS/BB approach). One problem with being able to increase your base healing stock via exploration is that it typically results in having too little healing at the beginning (DS2) and too much at the end (DS3), so I hope they don't go overboard on that. Stages in the demo weren't very long and had plentiful shrines and shortcuts, so I don't think the base amount of healing needs to go up too much.

I collected all the Kodama in the Beta and they did not increase the capacity of my Healing items, only the chance of finding them. The only way I saw how you could increase the capacity of Healing items was one of the passives in the Ninjutsu skill tree, although I'm not sure if it increases the amount of Healing items you start off with in the shrine, but apparently it does, however. Bloodborne wasn't so awful with the healing items since there were some enemies that simply dropped a shitton of them each time you killed them, meaning that there was really no grind involved. I still don't understand why they didn't just use the Estus system since the over abundance of healing items kinda trivialized the idea of having a limited supply. And you could use excess Echoes to buy Vials if you somehow did run out of them. Hopefully this will be something you can do in Nioh as well as that would help alleviate the problem. Although that's just one problem I have with Nioh, among the myriad of other things that I hated about the game.

 

[nomask7]

Being able to run past enemies is pretty dumb to begin with in an action game focused on combat.

Let's not confuse this game with a Devil May Cry. It's an action *rpg*, not just an action game. When loot and xp are involved, it makes sense to allow the player to skip content and try his hand at higher level areas sooner if he so wishes.

Do you see what I'm getting at, or do I have to explain it to you like to a small child?

And who wants to tackle every level and every combat encounter with every playthrough anyway? Freedom to do things differently creates replay value. This is a pretty basic concept.

Things would be different if the game was careful with resource management, but again it's not an action game but an action rpg with grindable health potions, so forcing the player to beat every combat encounter serves no purpose at all.

It's only really necessary in Souls because

I didn't say it's necessary but that it's a lot better than the alternative.

there are no checkpoints and the games can't just respawn you inside the boss room. So as long as you can skip everything on the way to a boss easily, you have no room to complain.

Checkpoints sound like a bore. The Souls way of doing things is, pardon me, more immersive.

 

[nomask7]

So, I'm actually a little puzzled here, there are actually people who don't want their action rpgs to have avoidable monsters? Cowboy Moment's comment wasn't just trolling by a butthurt DMC fanboy but actual genuine preference? If so, then I must apologise for trashing him so profoundly. He obviously has his reasons, even if for some reason has decided to be reticent about them.

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Let's not confuse this game with a Devil May Cry. It's an action *rpg*, not just an action game. When loot and xp are involved, it makes sense to allow the player to skip content and try his hand at higher level areas sooner if he so wishes.

Do you see what I'm getting at, or do I have to explain it to you like to a small child?

And who wants to tackle every level and every combat encounter with every playthrough anyway? Freedom to do things differently creates replay value. This is a pretty basic concept.

Things would be different if the game was careful with resource management, but again it's not an action game but an action rpg with grindable health potions, so forcing the player to beat every combat encounter serves no purpose at all.



I didn't say it's necessary but that it's a lot better than the alternative.



Checkpoints sound like a bore. The Souls way of doing things is, pardon me, more immersive.

Have you even played the Nioh beta, or DMC for that matter? Or are you just terminally incapable of rational thought? You can skip content perfectly fine in Nioh, the levels themselves allow it, as does the overland map. I was specifically talking about running past enemies and expecting them to eventually lose aggro, as they do in Souls games - and this is indeed stupid, and unnecessary in a well-designed game. At the very least, it's retarded beyond comprehension to complain about the lack of this behaviour as if it were some kind of desirable feature.

So, I'm actually a little puzzled here, there are actually people who don't want their action rpgs to have avoidable monsters? Cowboy Moment's comment wasn't just trolling by a butthurt DMC fanboy but actual genuine preference? If so, then I must apologise for trashing him so profoundly. He obviously has his reasons, even if for some reason has decided to be reticent about them.

Were you so desperately looking forward to my reply? So sorry, I completely forgot about this thread. In any case, I'm actually much more of a Ninja Gaiden person when it comes to action games, but then again, one needs some decent experience in the genre to appreciate the difference, so your confusion is understandable.

 

[sullynathan]

you shouldn't object to a jumping button if you're more of a ninja gaiden guy

 

[Cowboy Moment]

The horrible platforming is one of the worst features of NGB. Jumping adds more depth to the combat in that game, but for sheer environment traversal, it hurts more than it helps.

 

[sullynathan]

I don't want straight platforming because many action games don't get it right, I want more control over my character so that I am not forced to either follow a small a walkway on a roof or drop off.

 

[nomask7]

Have you even played the Nioh beta, or DMC for that matter? Or are you just terminally incapable of rational thought? You can skip content perfectly fine in Nioh, the levels themselves allow it, as does the overland map. I was specifically talking about running past enemies and expecting them to eventually lose aggro, as they do in Souls games - and this is indeed stupid, and unnecessary in a well-designed game. At the very least, it's retarded beyond comprehension to complain about the lack of this behaviour as if it were some kind of desirable feature.

Were you so desperately looking forward to my reply? So sorry, I completely forgot about this thread. In any case, I'm actually much more of a Ninja Gaiden person when it comes to action games, but then again, one needs some decent experience in the genre to appreciate the difference, so your confusion is understandable.

And still not a single reason for your grand pronouncements. WHY is enemies losing their aggro a retarded feature? WHY don't you want to be able to run past enemies in an (action) CRPG? WHY is a checkpoint system better than something that's genuinely immersive like Dark Souls?

Do you think the Dark Souls devs were too retarded to implement - wait for it - A CHECKPOINT SYSTEM LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE? Or were they less retarded than the usual devs and opted for something better? Same with enemies losing aggro, maybe they're just less retarded - not more - than the average Bethestard inspired devs?

 

[Cowboy Moment]

Have you even played the Nioh beta, or DMC for that matter? Or are you just terminally incapable of rational thought? You can skip content perfectly fine in Nioh, the levels themselves allow it, as does the overland map. I was specifically talking about running past enemies and expecting them to eventually lose aggro, as they do in Souls games - and this is indeed stupid, and unnecessary in a well-designed game. At the very least, it's retarded beyond comprehension to complain about the lack of this behaviour as if it were some kind of desirable feature.

Were you so desperately looking forward to my reply? So sorry, I completely forgot about this thread. In any case, I'm actually much more of a Ninja Gaiden person when it comes to action games, but then again, one needs some decent experience in the genre to appreciate the difference, so your confusion is understandable.

And still not a single reason for your grand pronouncements. WHY is enemies losing their aggro a retarded feature? WHY don't you want to be able to run past enemies in an (action) CRPG? WHY is a checkpoint system better than something that's genuinely immersive like Dark Souls?

Do you think the Dark Souls devs were too retarded to implement - wait for it - A CHECKPOINT SYSTEM LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE? Or were they less retarded than the usual devs and opted for something better? Same with enemies losing aggro, maybe they're just less retarded - not more - than the average Bethestard inspired devs?

Dark Souls does have what is effectively a checkpoint system, with some world state persisting across deaths. It could just as well achieve the same effect as DMC by putting a bonfire next to every fog gate. Would that somehow be less immersive to your deranged mind? It would make bonfire placement more artificial, yes, but later games in the series even spawn bonfires on boss death, which is equally artificial, so I honestly struggle to understand what massive difference you perceive here.

And really, the majority of gameplay in these games consists of combat. What you're asking for, is, in essence, the ability to skip every combat encounter without any consequences. Do you also get upset because Infinity Engine games don't let you skip all combat? Or Wizardry? I'd like to establish just how far off the deep end you've gone here. For the record, I don't think the ability to run past everything is some kind of major flaw in Souls games, though it is a bit stupid. But it's at best a weird quirk of the AI, not some awesome feature to be copied by other developers.

 

[nomask7]

Dark Souls does have what is effectively a checkpoint system, with some world state persisting across deaths. It could just as well achieve the same effect as DMC by putting a bonfire next to every fog gate. Would that somehow be less immersive to your deranged mind? It would make bonfire placement more artificial, yes, but later games in the series even spawn bonfires on boss death, which is equally artificial, so I honestly struggle to understand what massive difference you perceive here.

And really, the majority of gameplay in these games consists of combat. What you're asking for, is, in essence, the ability to skip every combat encounter without any consequences. Do you also get upset because Infinity Engine games don't let you skip all combat? Or Wizardry? I'd like to establish just how far off the deep end you've gone here. For the record, I don't think the ability to run past everything is some kind of major flaw in Souls games, though it is a bit stupid. But it's at best a weird quirk of the AI, not some awesome feature to be copied by other developers.

And still no reasons given for your opinions. Jesus fuck you're dumb.

What you're asking for, is, in essence, the ability to skip every combat encounter without any consequences.

Losing xp and loot is the consequence like I said, you fucking drooling retard.

I'm putting you on ignore now. It is clear you're incapable of even basic intelligence in discussions like this. Go die in fire and stop telling your betters what games should be like.

 

[Ivan]

who?

 

[sullynathan]

weeaboo shit

 

[sullynathan]

http://wccftech.com/niohs-game-dire...on-average-no-plans-for-pc-release-currently/

I don't see how this game could be stretched for 70 hours in a playthrough. Would get boring after a certain point.

 

[Hobo Elf]

This game is going to suck.

 

[Lyric Suite]

http://wccftech.com/niohs-game-dire...on-average-no-plans-for-pc-release-currently/

I don't see how this game could be stretched for 70 hours in a playthrough. Would get boring after a certain point.

Comment section is the worst.

"Hurr durr PC game mustard race begging for PC port where's your god now lol derp"