Numenera: Monte Cook's new 'Space Fantasy' rpg.

[Roguey]

Blatant about what? Succubi are basically just fantasy temptresses, and temptresses are a recurring trope in human culture and the human condition.

They're still creatures who only exist to fuck poor unsuspecting adventurers and steal their precious essence. Trite, boring, awful. Even Dragon Age's desire demons are better.

 

[Infinitron]

Blatant about what? Succubi are basically just fantasy temptresses, and temptresses are a recurring trope in human culture and the human condition.

They're still creatures who only exist to fuck poor unsuspecting adventurers and steal their precious essence. Trite, boring, awful. Even Dragon Age's desire demons are better.

There you go, "trite and boring" is much better than "problematic".

I do think both you and Sawyer only use those words because you don't want to justify why you think those tropes are morally wrong, though.

"It's not that I think it's offensive and evil, I just think it's BORING." Yeah not buying it. But whatever.

 

[Roguey]

There you go, "trite and boring" is much better than "problematic".

I do think both you and Sawyer only use those words because you don't want to justify why you think those tropes are morally wrong, though.

"It's not that I think it's offensive and evil, I just think it's BORING." Yeah not buying it. But whatever.

Well I also think it's offensive because the creature is only just a caricature of a single negative trait. People are multifaceted.

 

[evdk]

There you go, "trite and boring" is much better than "problematic".

I do think both you and Sawyer only use those words because you don't want to justify why you think those tropes are morally wrong, though.

"It's not that I think it's offensive and evil, I just think it's BORING." Yeah not buying it. But whatever.

Well I also think it's offensive because the creature is only just a caricature of a single negative trait. People are multifaceted.

Walking alignment personifications less so.

 

[Infinitron]

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?697888-Numenera-W-T-F-Monte!&p=17052380#post17052380

In case folks weren't aware, Filamena got a nastygram from someone who wished cancer and death on her and her children.

All because she complained about one obnoxious, sexist monster.

Topher

It makes me incredibly sad that someone did that to her and I'm ashamed that the person who said those things seems to be a Numenera fan. Whether people like or hate the game that we created, whether they like or hate the creatures we designed -- that is of course their prerogative and they should feel safe giving their opinion, no matter what it might be.

Monte and I are very aware of the current sexism/gender/sexuality issues in the gaming industry. We tried to carefully think through every element of the game in that regard. It was very important to us to create a world that didn't ignore sex, gender or sexual orientation -- anyone who's familiar with my past work knows this about me already, and Monte and I had a lot of conversations about how to include these topics in a real way even in an unreal world. In the Ninth World, sexuality and gender are both celebrated and used for nefarious purposes, just like in today's world. Anyone looking through the art and setting material will find a wide range of genders, and sexualities represented and embraced.

On the other hand, the Ninth World isn't today's culture. The creatures of the Ninth World are supposed to be scary monsters who want to take everything we (and our characters) hold dear and crush it. To me, the Nibovian wives epitomize that. They SHOULD scare and freak the fuck out of characters, for a whole variety of reasons. Numenera isn't the kind of game where we make people feel safe and secure. It's the kind of game where horrible monsters do horrible things to people -- that's why they're monsters.

On the other hand, if you find the creatures boring instead of scary, don't use them in the game. Or don't play it. There are a thousand great games out there. And isn't that supposed to be the point of gaming anyway? To have fun? If you're not having fun, maybe it's time to play a game you like better.

All my best,
Shanna
Lead Editor, Numenera
Co-Owner, Monte Cook Games, LLC

 

[FeelTheRads]

People are multifaceted.

Succubi are people! Good people! Think about the poor succubi!

 

[Roguey]

Succubi are people! Good people! Think about the poor succubi!

"Chaotic evil" is fucking stupid. Forgotten Realms with new wallpaper is equally stupid. McComb's tide system is all for naught.

 

[evdk]

"Chaotic evil" is fucking stupid.

Maybe, but it's a part of the rules. The Tanar'ri literally spring out of the evil of the abyss, they are CE personified. There's no room for much multifacated personality in there. Exceptions of course always exist, but that's not what we're talking about here.

 

[FeelTheRads]

"Chaotic evil" is fucking stupid.

Blah blah blah. If it wasn't related to sex, but say to.. dunno... avarice, you wouldn't have given a shit.

But sex is the most evil and shameful thing ever, up there with decapitating newborns.

 

[tuluse]

"Chaotic evil" is fucking stupid. Forgotten Realms with new wallpaper is equally stupid. McComb's tide system is all for naught.

So far it sounds like InXile is making all the creatures they want to encounter and not really using Cook's stuff except for general guidelines.

 

[groke]

They're still creatures who only exist to fuck poor unsuspecting adventurers and steal their precious essence.

That is, definitively, what succubi are.

 

[Zewp]

They're still creatures who only exist to fuck poor unsuspecting adventurers and steal their precious essence. Trite, boring, awful. Even Dragon Age's desire demons are better.

Incubi are also creatures who exist to fuck poor unsuspecting women. OMG SEXISM.

Then again, if the game included incubi rather than succubi, I bet roguey would be bitching about that too.

 

[Night Goat]

They're still creatures who only exist to fuck poor unsuspecting adventurers and steal their precious essence. Trite, boring, awful. Even Dragon Age's desire demons are better.

Incubi are also creatures who exist to fuck poor unsuspecting women. OMG SEXISM.

Then again, if the game included incubi rather than succubi, I bet roguey would be bitching about that too.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but Medieval rapists would sometimes blame their actions on an incubus that assumed the rapist's appearance. The victims often believed this, because it's easier to believe you were raped by a demon than by someone you know and trust. So, I can see why someone would think that incubi are more objectionable than succubi.

 

[Alchemist]

I told my girlfriend about the Nibovian Wife and she thought it was a cool concept. Different strokes etc...

Anyway, people looking for sexist / misogynist agendas in Numenera aren't going to find much to attack. If, you know, they actually read and look at the whole book instead of singling out one creature totally out of context. Based on browsing it so far it seems pretty balanced regarding gender. In fact there is probably more male skin on display in the art than female.

 

[Infinitron]

http://www.vorpalblonde.com/six-impossible-things/

 

[Night Goat]

That sure is an oddly-shaped codpiece.

 

[groke]

Who's got the impossibly large, hideously deformed metallic phallus NOW, Patriarchy?!

 

[Alchemist]

Just FYI - Numenera is now for sale to the general public: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/114133/Numenera and hardcover at local game stores, etc. Hoping I get a call about my pre-order shortly.

 

[evdk]

Just FYI - Numenera is now for sale to the general public: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product/114133/Numenera and hardcover at local game stores, etc. Hoping I get a call about my pre-order shortly.

They also released a new version of the pdf, with bookmarks and some tweaks.

 

[laclongquan]

Roguey sounds reaaaaaaally cranky.

'Succubi exist only to s/fuck human dry. Boooooring."

Cranky.

That description only describe the relation between the party of heroes with a class of monster. It say noting about other aspects of that class.

'Robin Hood exist only to rob the rich and give to the poor." Relations. In this case is between three sides. Say nothing about each of them.

You seriously need a good cuddle, Roguey. No need to be that cranky.

 

[Humanity has risen!]

http://www.theferrett.com/ferrettworks/2013/08/numenera-the-review/

Which is to say that the GM says, “Okay, you’re climbing that ledge into the Baron’s lair, and it’s going too easily. I’ll throw in a GM Intrusion; you grab a loose rock, which tumbles out of your hands, hits your head, and you begin to fall.” The player can choose to refuse the GM intrusion, in which case he has to pay 1 XP for a smooth climb, or he gains 2 XP as a reward for story complication – and has to give one of those XP away to a player immediately.

XP, in turn, are a more dynamic resource than most games. You can save XP to level up, but you can also burn a point of XP to reroll a die, have another player reroll their die, make a task easier, and so forth. Monte estimates about half a player’s XP will be spent making the game easier, which in turn gives the players a little more control than the usual frustrating “I’ve rolled four critical misses in a row!” dependence on dice.

It sounds really bad and obnoxious.

I really don't like systems like these, FATE being probably the worst example I know of. What's this obsession with removing all mechanics for casuals with no attention span or brains and burned out old players who still want to feel hardcore? And giving tons of free passes to the player, along with control of the storyline with the GM? The fun of these games is the inevitability of the dire situations you're put into, and how you defy all odds with very limited resources and creativity.

And now I see that they've included Biowarian activism in the game? PASS

Give me GURPS where ambitious and deep gameplay mechanics and possibilities match the lofty game experiences that they purport to be aiming for, and you can take your fruitcake "streamlined, interactive, emotionally engaging" system for which you flaunt how few pages the gameplay mechanics lie in where I think.

And the Nibovian wives thing is the lamest thing I've ever read in a PnP game. "Giving access to demon seed through a dimensional portal in their womb", this can't be real, who thought it was a good idea? This is a system by hipster fruitcakes, for hipster fruitcakes.

 

[Excidium]

Monte estimates about half a player’s XP will be spent making the game easier, which in turn gives the players a little more control than the usual frustrating “I’ve rolled four critical misses in a row!” dependence on dice.

What about having a resolution system that doesn't suck instead?

 

[Gambler738]

I'm WoD player, so I tend to like less rules heavy and 'abstract systems' whatever the fuck that means...

But reading this it sounds....really....really...uninteresting. The entire social activism topic is just more typically banal crap, but this system, from the sounds and looks of it sounds like its pretty bland. Though I'll have to get a hold of the core book before making any hard and fast judgement, but even so, thats what it seems like right now.

 

[Alchemist]

What the hell is this "activism" thing you guys are talking about? I own the book and I have no idea what you mean.

Though I'll have to get a hold of the core book before making any hard and fast judgement...

That would be sensible but nah just make snap judgements based on internet hearsay without even reading or playing the game - that's what everyone else does!

 

[Gambler738]

The controversy over the Nibovian Wives, I'm not saying anything about the game itself being of a particular bent either way, I was merely commenting on all these banal arguments over 'sexism' and misogyny because of this one monster is all. But anyway.

I was fairly excited about Numenera, cRPG and pnpRPG, the far future setting is one that is very interesting, I'm a sucker for Gene Wolfe and his Books of the Sun(s) and Severian so this seems to appeal, the setting at the very least, in some ways to me so I'm intending on getting a hold of it.