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Order these games by how bad their writing is

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My team has the sexiest and deadliest waifus you can recruit.
IWD is a bit different from the others on the list. It's very evocative, but sparse. It kinda goes with the edge of civilization setting. It's nice because it doesn't get bogged down in a metric fuck tonne of snooze material, but it also doesn't have the room to really go interesting places. Basically the low ceiling, but high floor of RPG writing.
 

Jimmious

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Steve gets a Kidney but I don't even get a tag.
I will try to explain my low "mark "on IWD:
I played the game more than 10 years ago and the things I remember are:
- Great game
- Great combat
- Snow

That's more or less it. Maybe some specific battles pop into mind. I literally have no recollection of the story AT ALL. That means that at least for me it was completely "unnecessary"? "Pointless"? I dunno. But even in much worse games I remember the basic plot after years
 

DeepOcean

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I will try to explain my low "mark "on IWD:
I played the game more than 10 years ago and the things I remember are:
- Great game
- Great combat
- Snow

That's more or less it. Maybe some specific battles pop into mind. I literally have no recollection of the story AT ALL. That means that at least for me it was completely "unnecessary"? "Pointless"? I dunno. But even in much worse games I remember the basic plot after years
But that was the point, do you really rate Doom's story as bad? IWD was a dungeon crawler, the story was there to give some cool immersive context to the dungeons you were entering but not much more than that, it had low ambitions and delivered greatly on those low ambitions, an example of the contrary of really high ambitions but awful delivery completely failing those ambitions is D:OS 2 for example.
 

AwesomeButton

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I will try to explain my low "mark "on IWD:
I played the game more than 10 years ago and the things I remember are:
- Great game
- Great combat
- Snow

That's more or less it. Maybe some specific battles pop into mind. I literally have no recollection of the story AT ALL. That means that at least for me it was completely "unnecessary"? "Pointless"? I dunno. But even in much worse games I remember the basic plot after years
If it has been 10 years ago, no one can blame you. I bet if you go into it now, you will see qualities in the writing which you didn't have the eye for 10 years ago.
 
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AwesomeButton

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Completely agree - I think we were posting in the same thread on the OBS boards. I asked if they could at least implement the backend programming to support users adding images to the item description at a later date. Do you have any idea if that's been done? I *think* I read that soulbound items have sketches. Too bad soulbound items is a MMO mechanic designed such that EVERYONE WINS and no one feels left out (BAD feelings, yo!) based on their weapon proficiency.
Yes, now I remember I was seeing you on the Obsidian forums. :)

Soulbound items do have sketches. I don't know if Obsidian opened up the possibility to mod in sketches for items which don't have them, but if item properties themselves are moddable (I have to check, I have PoE installed), and not solely the items' descriptions, then it should be possible to change the status of an item to soulbound and then pass an address for a sketch image. The new Deadfire free DLC for PoE may be good for testing if this can work.
 
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VentilatorOfDoom

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IWD writing:

Light of Cera Sumat

The holy avenger is the paladin's ultimate weapon against the forces of evil.
There are few creatures on the Lower Planes that would not hesitate to confront
a holy warrior wielding such a weapon... and this one, perhaps more so than
others. Once, it was nothing more than a simple iron sword, but through the
courage and faith of one man, it became something more.

The blade of this holy avenger glows with a soft golden light. Inscribed upon
the hilt in flowing gold letters is "Cera Sumat," which translates into "Six,
now Silenced." Cera Sumat earned its name through the labors of elderly duke
Kholsa Ehld, a man cresting nearly eighty years of age, who vowed to complete a
task that the greatest warriors of three kingdoms feared to do... all because of
the weeping of a child.

The times in which Old Duke Ehld lived were ones of great upheaval, and the
servitors of Bane were strong, crushing all that stood in their way. Entire
kingdoms feared their wrath, and to speak out against them meant death, so many
remained silent and turned their eyes from the evils of Bane and his servants.

During these dark times, the most terrible of Bane's minions were six who called
themselves the Lost Followers. Their souls were storms of avarice and hate, and
mighty were the powers at their command. They reveled in strife and tyranny...
and for all the blood they shed, it was never enough.

Together, the Lost Followers brought about the downfall of the Silver Court,
slaying its king upon his throne and renaming his once-beautiful nation the
Barbed Kingdom. After animating his decapitated corpse and having it march
through the streets slaying anyone it could find, they brought a rain of fire
down upon the city and the lands around, leaving it a barren wasteland. It is
said that they dined in the capital's great hall that night as the land burned,
and they raised their wine glasses as the screams of the dying reached their
peak.

There was only one survivor. In their last act of malice, the Lost Followers
left the king's only daughter, barely five years old, alive to reign as "Queen"
over the burned kingdom. They called her the Weeping Queen and cast wards about
her so that she might never leave the empty capital, and then left her to
starve. Their appetite momentarily slaked, the Lost Followers parted ways and
went upon their separate roads of damnation, sowing strife in the Bane's Name.

Old Duke Ehld was the first one to cross the wards of the Barbed Kingdom and
seek out the Weeping Queen upon her father's throne. When he found the small
girl, he approached, kneeled before her, and told her he had come to pledge his
life in her service. In stiff, formal words, he said he had brought food and
water and apologized for his lateness, but his bones were old and it had taken
him some time to reach this place. The near-starving child stared at him as he
pledged his worn blade and his honor to seeing that the ones who had done this
terrible crime answered for their actions, if his Queen wished it. After a
long, stunned silence, the Weeping Queen found the words to thank him.

From the moment Ehld left the throne room in search of the Lost Followers, the
weeping of the queen ended, and she never wept again.

Over six years, Ehld traveled the lands of Faerun and across the planes
themselves, seeking the Six, and asking them to answer for their crimes. Each
scoffed at the old man and his worn-looking blade, only to find him a dangerous
opponent... and in the end, the victor. He recorded the events of their death
upon a stone set into the pommel of his blade, and there was even regret in his
writings that he had not been able to enlighten the Lost Followers to turn from
their path before it came to its end.

When the last of the Six had answered for their crimes upon the edge of the Cera
Sumat blade, Ehld returned to the Weeping Queen and laid the blade at her feet.
Where once it had been a tarnished blade, it shone as brightly as the sun, and
the stone in the pommel was covered with the writing of his journeys. He
detached the stone, and set into a chain, and he gave the Weeping Queen. Ehld
told her to keep the chain to wear as a reminder of the many evils of the world
and that they are never far from one's heart... but if one's heart is true and
one's path is righteous, one may triumph against any number of evils.

Duke Ehld outlived his queen, living to the age of 107, at which point Ehld took
his Cera Sumat and left the Barbed Kingdom... and is said to have traveled
north. In time, the Barbed Kingdom rose to its former glory and its name was
changed, and with it, the fate of Cera Sumat and the Medallion of the Lost
Followers was forgotten... until your arrival in Kuldahar and the medallion and
the Holy Avenger were united once again to meet the Lost Followers in battle one
final time.

But the story of Ehld and Cera Sumat was a story of another time, and of the
adventures of another hero. This is now your time, and your epic. If your band
counts a paladin among its number, then this ancient blade is yours to wield
against the forces of evil...

And perhaps, if your heart is true, save a land from destruction once again.
 

Martyr

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you forgot to include the best game there ever was and will be in your list --> Torment: Tides of Numenera :obviously:

best to worst:

○ Age of Decadence !!!
○ Pillars of Eternity - imo the story was the best part of this game
○ Icewind Dale - the story wasn't that special but imho still better than many other games, including Baldur's Gate 1 and 2
○ Witcher 3 - I did enjoy the story but there are too. many. cutscenes. sometimes I felt like watching a slightly interactive movie :argh:
○ Kingdom Come: Deliverance - (1) too many cutscenes. (2) the people behave far too modern. one example: the opening made me want to throw up. so the blacksmith and his wife still love each other very much, after such a long time (Henry is how old? 20-23?); yeah, veeery realistic. also Henry spends all of his money on getting drunk, his parents are okay with that & even let him sleep while he's supposed to work instead of kicking him off the bench, beating him to death and denying that they ever had a son? alrighty then.

haven't played Elex (yet?!). don't intend to play Divinity OS 2. ever.
 

Parabalus

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What do people mean when they say X game has good/bad writing?
I feel like there are widely different ideas about that in this thread.

To me writing is good simply if I want to devour as much of it as fast as possible. For books this means not wanting to put them down, similarly for dialogue/text in games. This has a dubious connection at best with any kind of objective "literary quality", for me at least.

For example IWD had very atmospheric writing, but I never just got that yearning to "turn the page", even if the text in front of me might have been more competently put together than in some of those I ranked higher.
 

HeatEXTEND

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But i take it,this is the blindness of the fanaticism.

:ehue:FANATACISM ? HOW DARE YOU:ehue: AoD IS SIMPLY THE BEST GAME EVAR:ehue:

Honestly I don't see people's problem with AoD's writing. I think it's pretty great, good characters and great set-pieces. Reads like a charm and I never feel like I'm "slogging through just for the sake of it"
 

fantadomat

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But i take it,this is the blindness of the fanaticism.

:ehue:FANATACISM ? HOW DARE YOU:ehue: AoD IS SIMPLY THE BEST GAME EVAR:ehue:

Honestly I don't see people's problem with AoD's writing. I think it's pretty great, good characters and great set-pieces. Reads like a charm and I never feel like I'm "slogging through just for the sake of it"
Oh,most certainly mate,the writing is ok and good from time to time. Still it is far from the best among the numbered. It is annoying to see all those "It is the best writing in the verse!!!" ratings. All i remember from the game is that it was 5-6 hours,was that i was in some mine,then in some city sewer and then the city caught fire and it was in civil war or something,then i was in a desert and killed alien jew god and then my house was in ruin because of it.
 

AwesomeButton

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What do people mean when they say X game has good/bad writing?
I feel like there are widely different ideas about that in this thread.

To me writing is good simply if I want to devour as much of it as fast as possible. For books this means not wanting to put them down, similarly for dialogue/text in games. This has a dubious connection at best with any kind of objective "literary quality", for me at least.

For example IWD had very atmospheric writing, but I never just got that yearning to "turn the page", even if the text in front of me might have been more competently put together than in some of those I ranked higher.
In an RPG, one way to evaluate the quality of "writing" would be - how much does any of the text I read contribute to my roleplaying experience. Do I feel inspired to roleplay more? Do I picture in my mind the things that all the writing describes - items, people, their actions?

It's tough to compare good writing in a book/movie with good writing in a role playing game, because obviously, the reader or viewer has no agency, while the player in an RPG has a large degree of agency. So what you call "yearning to turn the next page" could translate for an RPG as yearning to keep playing and progressing towards completing the quest you are currently on, or achieving whatever goal you have set for yourself right now.
 

Trashos

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Oh,most certainly mate,the writing is ok and good from time to time. Still it is far from the best among the numbered. It is annoying to see all those "It is the best writing in the verse!!!" ratings. All i remember from the game is that it was 5-6 hours,was that i was in some mine,then in some city sewer and then the city caught fire and it was in civil war or something,then i was in a desert and killed alien jew god and then my house was in ruin because of it.

You know, an educated musician can construct a music piece just by using cliches and make half the population weep. But that's not art and it's not interesting, they are just cheap tricks.

AoD's writing is the opposite of that. It fit the world, the characters, the plot, the situations, without any of those cheap tricks. That's extremely hard to pull off and keep one's interest, but ITS did pull it off -as is evident here.

I had no plan to be an AoD fan, I only followed some discussions here near its release. I bought it planning to spend some time and pat the creators on the back. "Good try, sons, I am proud of you". Heck, it blew my mind, and the writing was part of it. I was like, "who the fuck are these people who made this product?".
 

Lutte

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What do people mean when they say X game has good/bad writing?
I feel like there are widely different ideas about that in this thread.

To me writing is good simply if I want to devour as much of it as fast as possible. For books this means not wanting to put them down, similarly for dialogue/text in games. This has a dubious connection at best with any kind of objective "literary quality", for me at least.

For example IWD had very atmospheric writing, but I never just got that yearning to "turn the page", even if the text in front of me might have been more competently put together than in some of those I ranked higher.
This. PST is legendary for its writing not because the writing is at a high literary level - no, it isn't -, but because the wordsmiths made most lines of text want you to keep going for more. PST is intriguing and involving. Even some random character on the street feels like he might give you some more information about this alien world, information you're craving for.

This is what the vast majority of dialogue heavy RPGs fail to accomplish. Divinity Original Sin had me go through a duality of emotions, none of which are positive: boredom and cringe (at the belgian humor).
 

Shadenuat

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Seems that people should replay IWD, especially HoW, and pay more attention to everything - like easter egg quests with sudden backtracking (like stuff with Larrel & story of the sword which slayed dragon on the lake), item descriptions, and HoW content. The story is not just serviceable, I think it captures D&D better than BG actually.
 

AwesomeButton

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The story is not just serviceable, I think it captures D&D better than BG actually.
It makes a lot of use, and a smart use, of D&D campaign materials, probably the most use of any of the IE games. Couple this with a good writing style, that takes things slow, good narration, and it gives you just the atmosphere you need to get immersed in roleplaying. Paradoxically, it's not the romances, or "deep companion interactions", or the *wow, epic stuff happens* that make an engaging RPG...
 

Theldaran

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Maybe I didn't understand something but... did people really read NPC backer content in PoE? One wall of text was enough to put me off. God knows I tried to read some of them, but it was just too much. It's a master exercise on stuffing your game with filler to make it look more plentiful.

Another thing altogether is whether the writing on the main quest was good. All in all, immersion is terrible in PoE, and both Eora and the Dyrwood are very little appealing.
 

AwesomeButton

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It's one of the many things PoE would have been better off without but ended up in the game regardless, because it was a kickstarter promise, in some form. I read a couple, but since they were completely disconnected from any other aspect of the game, and were not in themselves interesting to read, I soon stopped bothering with them.

I don't think PoE's setting is unappealing because of its own lack of quality, more because it's poorly integrated into the game's story and plot. When reading the collector's book for PoE, I was very interested in the setting, the cultures, languages and history. In the game,however, they all looked pretty bland, like the designers themselves were just going through the motions, and were not themselves feeling immersed in the world they were constructing.
 
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Pizzashoes

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Durance and Eder were fully integrated in a setting where the people just killed Jesus. A lot of the other stuff was off, but there were some great RPG moments in the game.
20161126201717_1.jpg
 
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Theldaran

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Hmmm... I thought it was just poor world building, but really, it's all about the in-game presentation. Which makes it poor writing instead.
 
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Durance and Eder were fully integrated in a setting where the people just killed Jesus. A lot of the other stuff was off, but there were some great RPG moments in the game.
lack of dialogue options with Edér as a Priest of Eothas was disappointing
 

AwesomeButton

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Durance and Eder were fully integrated in a setting where the people just killed Jesus. A lot of the other stuff was off, but there were some great RPG moments in the game.
I feel exactly the opposite - outside of dialogues you could have with them, they were completely disconnected from the setting as characters. As with all else in PoE's Eora, the player is merely informed about events, but doesn't get to experience, as he plays, the consequences of the reality in which his character operates.

We should keep in mind that in 1999's Baldur's Gate, things were not very different in that particular departament. But we should also keep in mind the hypocritical tendency that PoE's shortcomings are either excused with the IE games, or when convenient, handily explained away with comparisons of how "established" the D&D setting was, and how easy it was for Bioware, etc. Reminds me of feminists complaining how easy it is for men in its absurdity. As if God descended and handed Bioware a good combat system, etc.

lack of dialogue options with Edér as a Priest of Eothas was disappointing
This too.
 
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