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Path of Exile is a MAJESTIC incline

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
Of course PoE has its problems, no one can deny that. But do you remember how many problems D2 had for example? Magic immune monsters, no endgame, chaos sanctuary undead mages with iron maiden. It was removed in v1.13 I think, only a few years ago.
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I dont know about you, but in my book there is multiple options to gauge a build: Clear speed, MF, Survivability, ability to do any map mod, atziri/uber viable. Quite a few builds excel at one or even two, but seldom has there been a build that was able to do them all. You force this clearspeed meta onto everyone and everything in this game, and by doing so ignore parts of what distinguishes PoE from games like D3 (which is why I mentioned it in my last post). Uniques are not supposed to be the end all and be all for your character either, they are supposed to be build-enabling (again something that clearly differentiates it from D3). Some of them are utter garbage, I agree, while others may not fit into your clearspeed meta and be useful there but instead provide meaningful leveling advantages or are just all around gimmicky for fun builds (that still work well, an example for that would be Shackles of the Wretched). What is there to gain by, say, removing these uniques from the game in favor of ones that benefit this meta, except for making the game less complex and fun? In what way does having 'bad' uniques lead to discouraging people to build diversely? The only reason people play the same shit over and over until it gets nerfed is because they A: Want to hit 100 as fast as possible, B: Think playing the "op" build minimizes the chance of dying in HC so they pick the "strongest" build or C: Feel forced to do so because people like you try to force this clearspeed meta onto the whole game. Maybe some actually enjoyed playing Flameblast, LL Incinerate, Bladefall trapper, Vaal Spark or voltaxic LA/VMS the last 2 years, but those clearly are in the minority compared to A through C.

It's not like this game has suddenly shifted to what it has become today anyway, people at the top were always looking for the strongest/fastest builds. The only thing that has changed is that for the past year or so everyone tries to fit WB into their build, which didn't matter that much a couple of years back when the skill was still shit and people were actually walking through maps. Since it is much easier to just re-level in case you actually die people have also become more lenient in regards to their defenses especially in HC, which leaves more space for more offensive/faster clearing builds. Very little of that, however, has anything to do with item design or challenge league mods or the game becoming easier. As I said already, it has mostly to do with the availability of higher level mobs for better XP. 10k HP Freezepulsers weren't so successful back when challenge leagues weren't even a thing because they cleared extremely fast, but because the build was almost unkillable which was more important when it took you about a month to even hit level 90. Obviously the very real power creep plays a part in this as well, but its certainly not the sole reason.

I do agree that having low risk, high reward options to certain gear or currency is a bad idea overall. You yourself already mentioned though that it is mostly based on luck to hit the jackpot, or investing a lot of time to roll not 10 but 100 prophecies a day. How is that different from grinding the same map over and over, hoping to get enough currency/a t1 drop to jump-start whatever build you want to play? Is it really that detrimental to have something semi-deterministic, quite similar to divination cards, to get certain results that enhance the gameplay? And in what way does it diminish your enjoyment of the game, being able to safely ignore all of it? The only reason you seem to be really disappointed in this league is because it is not intrusive enough (like perandus boxes and their mobs were, but you also didn't like the previous league for some reason) to provide a meaningful change of pace, coupled with GGG not coming over to smash the most op builds to smithereens this patch, while claiming the game has become too easy but ignoring most of the actual end-game content. Therefore you sit there on your not-nerfed fast-clearing build, ignoring most of the challenge league itself, playing the base game. Well no shit you're disappointed then, take a break and come back for the next flashback/ruckus event. But please don't complain about the game having nothing more to offer when it clearly does but you're just ignoring it. Stop tunnel-visioning on the clear-speed meta and try to enjoy parts of the game you've neglected so far, you'd be surprised how fun they can be.
 
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T. Reich

Arcane
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
2,714
Location
not even close
Speaking of parts of the game that many people overlook - how many of you even tried racing?
I personally enjoy a good deal of (shorter duration) races when a racing season rolls in. It's much better than even a year ago, with easier access to gems, lots of actually useful early game crafting options, lots of different game modes available and now even later act race starts.
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I did a bunch of 2hour races back in season 1 and 2, managed to grab a couple of demis on witch, stopped after season 2 though. Did a little bit of descent champions/endless ledge but never gotten around to figuring out the best route on descent for the build I used to do. I will be playing the new race season quite extensively though.

I always thought races would be what elevates PoE over all other aRPGs because it is such a unique way of competing with other players in an aRPG. Hopefully skipping out on a race season during perandus means that the prophecy one will bring in new race types/maps/seeds.
 

Padre

Liturgist
Joined
Jul 17, 2009
Messages
399
Location
Szczecin, Poland
Zana is such a God damn troll.

Went in to do a daily. The objective was to slay the map boss within time limit. Limit was increased by killing mobs. Then I've noticed it's a dungeon map. I was rather confident, with 7k of HP and ES combined, 6 zombies and a golem to provide meat shield. Entered the map.

Mods were: vulnerability, temp chains, some damage mod and faster boss. Map was lvl 72. I just left and went to do some more prophecies.

Still enjoying this league immensely. Prophecy hunting is very fun for me and yesterday I've killed Merci Izaro and got to roll 2 enchants. Shame they were both crappy as fuck. A tip though. Don't do lab run with prophecy named Trembling Earth. In fact, don't do this prophecy on HC at all. It spawns a fuckton of rare devourers in the map. Had to restart the Lab because there were like 20 rare devos in the middle of my path which was filled with spike traps. Would rip me apart probably. For the last 10 lvls I've been pretty safe. Did Merci Kaom, Daresso and the harvest trio. Didn't attempt Malachai. He has too many little attacks to chip at my ES and I'm afraid I won't be able to regen it properly.

One thing that is still very dangerous is chaos damage. Looking for that shav wrappings to mitigate that.

If anyone is interested I have a plethora of uniques, mostly low lvl, to help with levelling.
 

Aothan

Magister
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,742
just checking the trade value for Pyre and notice it is approximately five Chaos orbs, what has since changed to increase the overall value of a somewhat common unique ?
 

Goromorg

Savant
Joined
Aug 23, 2015
Messages
278
I assume more people want to convert their frenzy charge discharge damge into fire, coz jugg discharger is pretty popular right now and he's close to fire damage clusters.
 

Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,499
just checking the trade value for Pyre and notice it is approximately five Chaos orbs, what has since changed to increase the overall value of a somewhat common unique ?
ZiggyD made a build with vortex that is using Pyre to proc ele equilibrium. Its often the case that if a popular streamer/player makes a good build with certain unique, that unique will increase in price significantly. Thankfully Pyre is a common unique, so its price is stopped by the fact that the is a lot of them.
 

Aothan

Magister
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,742
that's a good point, it is a very common unique, perhaps trading sooner would be profitable but I want to use the same ring with Nycta's Lantern (last I checked a largely discounted unique) with Frost Blades

but hm, not that I begin thinking about these possible combinations, I just found Daressio's Passion earlier and could use the same for a type of Frenzy discharge build, although it would probably deviate from my intended playstyle
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
I started playing this again after a long time. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
I'm playing this sorceress with the delayed lightning strike and magma orb. Cant find anything good to replace magma orb thats fire based. I took that skill where the enemies gain resistance to the first element and weakness to the others, seems good if I can combine attacks.
Also Im wearing some white pajamas with lots of gem slots and no other stats. I got pwned by the big boss in the garden maze, no idea how Im gonna kill it. It's a fun game, I like playing SP and occasionally partying with random people. The graphics and especially the effects are top notch and a true diablo successor imo.
 

Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,499
I started playing this again after a long time. I have no idea what you guys are talking about.
I'm playing this sorceress with the delayed lightning strike and magma orb. Cant find anything good to replace magma orb thats fire based. I took that skill where the enemies gain resistance to the first element and weakness to the others, seems good if I can combine attacks.
Also Im wearing some white pajamas with lots of gem slots and no other stats. I got pwned by the big boss in the garden maze, no idea how Im gonna kill it. It's a fun game, I like playing SP and occasionally partying with random people. The graphics and especially the effects are top notch and a true diablo successor imo.
A few tips:

Try using fire storm as a skill, it should be available from Nessa, magic vendor in act 1. Its pretty great this days.

Elemental Equilibrium is a difficult thing to use effectively. It is applied on every hit so if you hit a mob with lightning skill, it will get lightning resistance and - 50% cold and fire, but if you then hit it with fire based skill, it will take increased damage on first hit, and get fire resistance and - 50% to lightning and cold. So what I am saying, its better for skills that have one big hit rather than a lot of small ones.

The white pajamas is a decent item for leveling, it allows you to get 6 linked skills from the start, so you use it with your main damage dealing skill and 5 supports, if you can sustain the mana cost, if you cant, use mana leech gem in it. But it will become less usefull in higher difficulties as it has no defensive stats whatsoever, so you will have a problem with resistances, lower life/energy shield/armour/evasion etc. Try to switch out of it maybe somewhere at the start of merciless. Sure, you will lose the nice links, but a good 4 linked body armour will help you more than 6 linked Tabula Rasa.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
Thanks dude, I didn't know that Equilibrium was applied with each hit, I thought it was a few sec debuff. Guess that makes it not as good as I thought.
I appreciate these lighter tips, no build trees or anything like that.

I'm now deciding if I should invest more into magic critical stuff or leave that for later and do more lightning damage.
Is it correct to assume Spell damage=elemental AND chaos damage, meaning EVERYTHING? You know, when items give that bonus.

I like using summons but it seems a waste to actually invest skills in them, I just use some life and damage supports for the skillgem.
I'll check out firestorm!
 

Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,499
Thanks dude, I didn't know that Equilibrium was applied with each hit, I thought it was a few sec debuff. Guess that makes it not as good as I thought.
I appreciate these lighter tips, no build trees or anything like that.

I'm now deciding if I should invest more into magic critical stuff or leave that for later and do more lightning damage.
Is it correct to assume Spell damage=elemental AND chaos damage, meaning EVERYTHING? You know, when items give that bonus.

I like using summons but it seems a waste to actually invest skills in them, I just use some life and damage supports for the skillgem.
I'll check out firestorm!
Investing into critical chance and multiplayer is a thing you either do as a part of a planned build, or very late into the game. It can create very powerfull builds but is expensive and require a decent knowledge about the game mechanics. I would leave it out and just take some generic damage and life/energy shield/any other defences.

Spell damage increases the damage of every gem that has the "spell" tag in its description. Hover over the gem and the top line will be the tags. For example, firestorm has this tags: Spell, AoE, Duration, Fire so it would be increased by spell damage, fire damage, area of effect damage, and duration nodes.

So, spell damage would increase the damage of elemental spell such as fireball, arc, storm call etc, but would not increase the damage of attacks that have some elemental portion such as Glacial hammer as it does not have the "spell" tag. Elemental damage would increase the damage of both spell and attacks, so it would work with Glacial Hammer.

Chaos is more complex. Chaos is not an element, its just something else. So elemental damage will not increase it. And spell damage will increase it only in gems that have the "spell" tag.

Minions are good and later very good but require a fair amount of investement and a build planned for them. Just having some minions with little to no investement is not worth it. Maybe some summon skeletors to distract bosses and stuff.
 

Cadmus

Arcane
Joined
Dec 28, 2013
Messages
4,264
I didn't notice the tags! That's nice, thank you!
The minions take care of lonely assholes that I missed with spells and distract the bosses or even surround them for a while and they are fun and low maintenance so I like them.

I will post more questions later when I've played some more, thank you! I'm now lvl 34 or smth and I just take what looks fun and it seems to be working for now.
 

Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,499
I didn't notice the tags! That's nice, thank you!
The minions take care of lonely assholes that I missed with spells and distract the bosses or even surround them for a while and they are fun and low maintenance so I like them.

I will post more questions later when I've played some more, thank you! I'm now lvl 34 or smth and I just take what looks fun and it seems to be working for now.
Thats a good approach for your first few characters, just take whatever looks interesting and test how it plays. No need for any complex builds and detailed ingame knowledge.
 

Aothan

Magister
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,742
I will probably trade for a Belly of the Beast armour, not too sure how viable it is for longterm play (where at higher levels I would prefer the Lightning Coil armour), and not always inclined to stack life on every other piece of equipment, but the total health bonus is about as useful as any other option for a melee armour and evasion character at these levels
 
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Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,499
Dropped two Coils with the same char within around 1 hour of play. The randomness... :dance:
Yeah, the randomness can create stories of epic wins or dreadfull failures. I remember getting two exalted orbs in two maps in a row, both being from daily master quests. I just wanted to do my dailies!
 

Aothan

Magister
Joined
Mar 16, 2008
Messages
1,742
started deliberating on where to allocate my next skillpoint and yet did not notice the damage being taken 'in the background'

though my Ranger has been fun I've been compelled to resume a new Templar with Cast on Melee, this time with staff and the intention to incorporate the two staff related skill nodes, I'm thinking about the new notable Elemental Overload which is both an effective global effect and constant effect for a set amount of time. I'm finding the Sunder skill fairly effective for earlier levelling and would not mind trying to make it go the distance. And although most area effect skills are compared directly to Reave Sunder feels more useful from an initial starting point at least and thus I'm curious to see if it can be enhanced for similar strengths towards the late game (in any case I prefer the skill gameplay wise)
 
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Zdzisiu

Arcane
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
3,499
started deliberating on where to allocate my next skillpoint and yet did not notice the damage being taken 'in the background'

though my Ranger has been fun I've been compelled to resume a new Templar with Cast on Melee, this time with staff and the intention to incorporate the two staff related skill nodes, I'm thinking about the new notable Elemental Overload which is both an effective global effect and constant effect for a set amount of time. I'm finding the Sunder skill fairly effective for earlier levelling and would not mind trying to make it go the distance. And although most area effect skills are compared directly to Reave Sunder feels more useful from an initial starting point at least and thus I'm curious to see if it can be enhanced for similar strengths towards the late game (in any case I prefer the skill gameplay wise)
Elemental overload is a nice passive on skills that naturally crit often (Through their innite high crit chance, or high cast speed so you have a lot of them in one second), decent choice for templar since he hasn't got good access to a lot of crit multi for spells.

Sunder as a skill was completly overshadowed by earthquake when both of them were introduced. It might be a decent skill in its own right, I used it for some leveling last league and it seemed to work cool. Also, the animation is nice, like a narrow and long ground slam that also explodes dudes on hit.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,011
Really? When I tried them it seemed like Sunder had way more potential. Much better range, no attack speed limit, and the explosion chain was utterly deadly to even low level packs, I'd imagine it'd be brutal on really crowded groups, especially with enhanced AoE. Feels good one shotting a rare strongbox.
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
Fuck those exalted prices, you can barely roll/zanamod 5 maps with one nowadays.
 

Damned Registrations

Furry Weeaboo Nazi Nihilist
Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
15,011
So my SRS witch is level ~70 now. The poison duration thing doesn't work after all unfortunately (skill duration doesn't carry over to minions and it's questionable to add it on a gem) but poison still seems like the best option to add damage because of all the double dipping on minion damage. 50% more on the gem and ~200% increased from all the passives and an aura means instead of adding 20% of the phys/chaos portion, it's adding 90% of it. So even by default, it'd be a 45% more modifier. Tack on added chaos damage and the poison is more like a 60% more modifier. And it gets better the more minion damage I get. Spirit offering cranks the chaos portion even higher, to the point that I'll probably add a void manipulation later on.

More to the point; in practice it just works. SRS is pretty awesome to begin with for solo play, wrecks shit from around corners and over walls/ledges to make it totally safe for most situations, often killing things entirely off screen. Zombies/spectres work as a meatshield long enough to kill even dangerous bosses before they turn their sights on me. Minion nodes are scarce enough on the tree that at this point I could still give up on SRS and switch the char to a blade vortex build, but I can't imagine it being preferable at all with that shitty AoE and lack of meatshields. I'd lose out on spirit offering's ES buff as well, which is fucking awesome.
 

Saark

Arcane
Patron
Joined
Jun 16, 2010
Messages
2,228
A Beautifully Desolate Campaign
I was playing AW necro up until 91, I eventually got pissed off because looting weapons for the next map while playing solo takes a shit ton of time I instead could be spending on rolling/running a new map already. The nodes are pretty similar to SRS, so I also naturally thought about respeccing into blade vortex. Don't. My clearspeed didn't really improve until I picked up a taste of hate and vinktars, and even then I was clearing pretty much as quickly with AW while having meatshields galore. Having to stop regularly to recast BV is a pain in the ass too. I'll probably return to playing AW or just reroll alltogether, leveling past 90 is a bitch unless you continuously buy gorges/canyons/plateaus anyway. A poorjoys (5-10c) gave about the same amount of XP as 5 double packsize shipyards/colloseums did, so yeah... The XP nerf to red maps made absolutely zero sense.
Hopefully I'll die soon so I have a proper reason to restart. :/
 

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